Bram have you or Michael Janich heard anything through the grapvine about the effectivness of Krav Maga World Wide? They are based out of LA and Daniel Levine is the head representive. I like some of their philosophy (from their website, and magazine articles) but they seem to be getting very comercialized.
They have recently formed an affliation with the ATA, American Tae Kwon Do Assc. As member
of that organization way back in high school. I feel I confident in saying that while they are good for tournments and belt testing, but self-defense was pretty far down on their priority list then.
Anyway I was wondering what you heard through
friends, LEO's, other MA's etc...???
Also not to trying to just trash anyone, just
wondering if they are worth checking out, for self-defense as it seems they are trying to go nation wide. Being in South Bend Indiana I am not exactly on the cutting edge of what is availble.
Edited by - Scorpius711 on 5/18/2001 4:44:44 PM
Edited by - Scorpius711 on 5/18/2001 4:46:08 PM
Krav Maga effective?
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Scorpius711
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- Location: South Bend, Indiana USA
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Michael Janich
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Dear Scorpius:
In its original form, Krav Maga is a very practical self-defense system. Although I don't agree with everything they do, it's still pretty solid.
The current version of Krav Maga being popularized in the U.S. is a bit flashier than the original and seems to want to combine the self-defense aspects of the art with cardio fitness. I believe the U.S.-based Krav Maga organization cut a deal with Gold's Gym to teach through their network of gyms. This, and a desire to Tae-Bo-ize their presentation has, in my opinion, altered the self-defense focus of the system. The inclusion of higher kicks and more athletic techniques in the self-defense side not only makes demonstrations of the art more dynamic, they make the cardio side of the package seem more relevant.
The bottom line is that your personal self-defense system needs to be soundly rooted in YOUR physical attributes and abilities and work within the constraints of YOUR lifestyle (e.g., if you habitually wear tight jeans, don't expect to kick high, even if you're flexible enough to do so in the gym). I kick pretty well and purposely wear loose-fitting pants. I have therefore been able to successfully kick high in several self-defense situations. However, I don't demand that my students kick high if it doesn't work for them. After all, the goal isn't to fight like me, the goal is to fight WELL.
Your best bet when assessing any martial arts program is to observe a few classes and give it an honest try. Then put on your typical street clothes and work some of the techniques with a training partner who provides some realistic resistance. If the methods still work for YOU, that's all that matters.
Hope this helps.
In its original form, Krav Maga is a very practical self-defense system. Although I don't agree with everything they do, it's still pretty solid.
The current version of Krav Maga being popularized in the U.S. is a bit flashier than the original and seems to want to combine the self-defense aspects of the art with cardio fitness. I believe the U.S.-based Krav Maga organization cut a deal with Gold's Gym to teach through their network of gyms. This, and a desire to Tae-Bo-ize their presentation has, in my opinion, altered the self-defense focus of the system. The inclusion of higher kicks and more athletic techniques in the self-defense side not only makes demonstrations of the art more dynamic, they make the cardio side of the package seem more relevant.
The bottom line is that your personal self-defense system needs to be soundly rooted in YOUR physical attributes and abilities and work within the constraints of YOUR lifestyle (e.g., if you habitually wear tight jeans, don't expect to kick high, even if you're flexible enough to do so in the gym). I kick pretty well and purposely wear loose-fitting pants. I have therefore been able to successfully kick high in several self-defense situations. However, I don't demand that my students kick high if it doesn't work for them. After all, the goal isn't to fight like me, the goal is to fight WELL.
Your best bet when assessing any martial arts program is to observe a few classes and give it an honest try. Then put on your typical street clothes and work some of the techniques with a training partner who provides some realistic resistance. If the methods still work for YOU, that's all that matters.
Hope this helps.
Scorpius711: I agree with what Mike has already said. Krav Maga was founded in Israel by Imrich Lichtenfeld Sde-Or...better known as "Imi"...
In 1944 Imi developed what he called Krav Maga. It was taught only to the military and it was a brutal fighting art.
Imi developed it fighting in the cities against the Nazis..Later in Israel fighting the British and the Arabs he refined it. It became the main fighting form for all Israeli Special Units..
Let me just interject that if it doesn't work, the Israelis don't do it.
PERIOD.
Around 1968-1970 Imi began developing a civilian version of Krav Maga.
Today thereare three forms of Krav Maga..Sport, as is taught here, civilian and military.
I guarentee NO ONE is teaching Military Krav Maga here..
I was just with the head of Krav Maga in Israel, Imi's chosen successor, Heym Zut.
Civiliam Krav Maga is great self defense stuff..
If you get past the aerobic part, as in Tae Bo... Krav Maga is still essentially, in concept Krav Maga..
But its not fighting Krav Maga..
I have the privilege this September of accepting Imi's posthumous award as the Pioneer of the Art of Krav Maga from the Hall of Fame...
In 1944 Imi developed what he called Krav Maga. It was taught only to the military and it was a brutal fighting art.
Imi developed it fighting in the cities against the Nazis..Later in Israel fighting the British and the Arabs he refined it. It became the main fighting form for all Israeli Special Units..
Let me just interject that if it doesn't work, the Israelis don't do it.
PERIOD.
Around 1968-1970 Imi began developing a civilian version of Krav Maga.
Today thereare three forms of Krav Maga..Sport, as is taught here, civilian and military.
I guarentee NO ONE is teaching Military Krav Maga here..
I was just with the head of Krav Maga in Israel, Imi's chosen successor, Heym Zut.
Civiliam Krav Maga is great self defense stuff..
If you get past the aerobic part, as in Tae Bo... Krav Maga is still essentially, in concept Krav Maga..
But its not fighting Krav Maga..
I have the privilege this September of accepting Imi's posthumous award as the Pioneer of the Art of Krav Maga from the Hall of Fame...
On the after thought.Krav Maga, in whatever version they teach WILL add a good dose of reality to TKD self defense situations...
so it will fix what you saw in American or Modern TKD as a low point in self defense.
remember: to appeal to a mass audience, especially in a Karate school atmosphere certain liberties are taken..
but look past it to the conceptual part of Krav Maga..
so it will fix what you saw in American or Modern TKD as a low point in self defense.
remember: to appeal to a mass audience, especially in a Karate school atmosphere certain liberties are taken..
but look past it to the conceptual part of Krav Maga..
At last!
BRAM you seem to know a little more about Krav Maga than the "average Joe". You´re even the first poster I´ve seen that even divided it into the three "levels".
I just have to ask if you have had the opportunity to see any knife techniques?
What philosophy do they have (not in a martial art kind of way but rather targets and patterns of using a knife)?
I believe that they teach them to Sayeret Matkal and perhaps their airborne troops (not sure).
Please tell us here at the forums some more about it and how it differs from Gunting use.
/Colinz
BRAM you seem to know a little more about Krav Maga than the "average Joe". You´re even the first poster I´ve seen that even divided it into the three "levels".
I just have to ask if you have had the opportunity to see any knife techniques?
What philosophy do they have (not in a martial art kind of way but rather targets and patterns of using a knife)?
I believe that they teach them to Sayeret Matkal and perhaps their airborne troops (not sure).
Please tell us here at the forums some more about it and how it differs from Gunting use.
/Colinz
Colinz: no I've never seen any Krav Maga knife techniques.. though I'm told that "Imi" , the founder of Krav Maga was very skilled with a knife and taught knife counter knife to fight the Nazis and the Arabs during the many wars...He was for 20 years the Chief Instructor of the IDF...
My meeting with Heym Zut was arranged by Dr Dennis Hanover..Heym attended my knife class and has invited me to come teach his Krav Maga instructors BladeCraft...as well as GUNTING.
I taught knife and GUNTING to several security groups in Israel.
They had nothing like the GUNTING...of that I can assure you!
On my next trip to Israel I will ask to see the Krav Maga knife system up close..
I'm sorry I can't be of more help..
My meeting with Heym Zut was arranged by Dr Dennis Hanover..Heym attended my knife class and has invited me to come teach his Krav Maga instructors BladeCraft...as well as GUNTING.
I taught knife and GUNTING to several security groups in Israel.
They had nothing like the GUNTING...of that I can assure you!
On my next trip to Israel I will ask to see the Krav Maga knife system up close..
I'm sorry I can't be of more help..
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
It will be interesting if you in the future can make a post about the similarities and differences between the two systems. This would be very interesting because both systems are very new and they both stem from a real need of selfpreservation.
Always enlightening to read a review discussing two different systems, by someone who is an expert.
/Colinz
It will be interesting if you in the future can make a post about the similarities and differences between the two systems. This would be very interesting because both systems are very new and they both stem from a real need of selfpreservation.
Always enlightening to read a review discussing two different systems, by someone who is an expert.
/Colinz
the IDF stresses self-defense /Krav Maga As:
Simplicity
Short Term instruction
Clarity & purposefulness
Use of side arms
Adapability
Techniques
Proficiency
The IDF Head of Combat fitness Col.David Ben-Asher modified Krav Maga and introduced it o the United States in around 1983...
I'm not sure which Krav Maga is being taught these days in the USA..By that I mean headed by whom, whether its part of any actual Israeli group
or at what part in Krav Magas history they come from...
I found an old book on Krav Maga..the knife stuff in it are brutally simple..but it would have to be to be effective each time..they teach as mosat of us do..reverse and forward grip..most is geared in this public printing on STOPING a knife atack not showing how to use a knife..I'm sure due to the circumstances and reality of life in Israel no one SHOWS in the old days How to use a knife..it was taught behind closed doors..
no one wanted the BG;s to know how to do something the good guys did.
Simplicity
Short Term instruction
Clarity & purposefulness
Use of side arms
Adapability
Techniques
Proficiency
The IDF Head of Combat fitness Col.David Ben-Asher modified Krav Maga and introduced it o the United States in around 1983...
I'm not sure which Krav Maga is being taught these days in the USA..By that I mean headed by whom, whether its part of any actual Israeli group
or at what part in Krav Magas history they come from...
I found an old book on Krav Maga..the knife stuff in it are brutally simple..but it would have to be to be effective each time..they teach as mosat of us do..reverse and forward grip..most is geared in this public printing on STOPING a knife atack not showing how to use a knife..I'm sure due to the circumstances and reality of life in Israel no one SHOWS in the old days How to use a knife..it was taught behind closed doors..
no one wanted the BG;s to know how to do something the good guys did.
Yes, I believe that´s why it´s such a secret. I´m waiting for the book in english on Civilian level Krav Maga by Yanilov (I believe his name is). I have still only seen the Hebrew version for sale.
Well maybe I´ll meet someone who has studied the knife techniques in Krav Maga and is willing to tell me something about it. Only future will tell.
BRAM,
Thanks for your reply once again.
/Colinz
Well maybe I´ll meet someone who has studied the knife techniques in Krav Maga and is willing to tell me something about it. Only future will tell.
BRAM,
Thanks for your reply once again.
/Colinz
Dan Levine is REAL Krav Maga. He was personally trained by the Founder of Krav Maga "Imi" Lichtenfeld..
He was certified by Imi to teach and be the Head of Krav Maga here in the USA...
As for commercialization, sometimes one must adapt to the situation around you...and to survive and thrive, therefore its made to appeal to the general group.
Be aware that Imi was a sports fanatic,a great athelete and he was a sports trainer so physical conditioning is very important and integral to Krav Maga...
But..Dan Levine is for real...
He was certified by Imi to teach and be the Head of Krav Maga here in the USA...
As for commercialization, sometimes one must adapt to the situation around you...and to survive and thrive, therefore its made to appeal to the general group.
Be aware that Imi was a sports fanatic,a great athelete and he was a sports trainer so physical conditioning is very important and integral to Krav Maga...
But..Dan Levine is for real...
Crash-ko: i think we have a translation problem..
Your post doesn't fit with the efectivenes nor reality of using Krav Maga.
Secondly its too broad a post.What do you mean by the post..Please re-think the post and either start a new thread of whats a good MBC knife to use in self-defense or something like that..OK??
If it continues in this thread about Krav Maga we'll remove it and either dunmp it or place it in a new thread to get you started..
thanks!!!!
Your post doesn't fit with the efectivenes nor reality of using Krav Maga.
Secondly its too broad a post.What do you mean by the post..Please re-think the post and either start a new thread of whats a good MBC knife to use in self-defense or something like that..OK??
If it continues in this thread about Krav Maga we'll remove it and either dunmp it or place it in a new thread to get you started..
thanks!!!!
Hey Bram, hope this aint a stupid question but Im gonna ask anyways, what martial arts got you into "knife fighting" (if I can call it that) or was it just something you got into by yourself, what I mean to say is, was there a perticular form of martial arts you practise that involoves blade techniques that got you to where you are today, or was it you yourself that did blade techniques by themselves if I can put it that way.
Hope my post aint to confusing, keep well
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
Hope my post aint to confusing, keep well
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
Hey Bram! hope that you're doing good and and having a good time!
Just wanted to ask what you're opinion on Eyal Yanilov (spelling??) what does he teach? (civilian, sports or military Krav Maga) and how does he fits into the whole Krav society??
I'd appreciate a great lot if you could fill me in on this <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
If it's sensitive feel free to e-mail me at: army@home.se
Thanks! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
"May all your detonations be expected"
Just wanted to ask what you're opinion on Eyal Yanilov (spelling??) what does he teach? (civilian, sports or military Krav Maga) and how does he fits into the whole Krav society??
I'd appreciate a great lot if you could fill me in on this <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
If it's sensitive feel free to e-mail me at: army@home.se
Thanks! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
"May all your detonations be expected"