are we all alone?

[silverback]

I hope we make contact in my lifetime.
As you see, I believe we are not alone, the Universe is just too big.

Interesting question, since this thread was (sort of) religion-spawned:
If we meet aliens, and they don't believe in God the way earth's religions do, or are atheists, what are our theologists gonna do?
Think this: They are part of the same creation, but God hasn't revealed himself to them? What about that? Different standards?
Especially: They cannot know about our various Prophets and holy men, for instance Jesus, whose teachings are central to christian salvation.

Think about it.

[rainman]

"Contact" was just on HBO and I watched it. I figured out that I'd seen it before, but it was still pretty good.
Personally, I find it impossible to believe that we are the only life...anywhere.
I also strongly believe that there are alternate realities, concurrent in time (a flexable concept, anyway), and in space.
Since no one experiences an event the exact same way as anyone else, we all have our own alternate realities. Maybe alternate dimension is a better way to phrase what I'm trying to say.
I don't think this flies in the face of religion, God, or mankind. Most religions date back a long time ago; a Higher Power/Ultimate Intelligence/God would, in my opinion, have not wanted to cloud what were already radical concepts with even more radical concepts. Mankind wouldn't have been ready and may not ever be ready, as a whole, to accept anything as mind-stretching as life other than on this planet, and alternate dimensions.
These are, however, some of my favorite topics :D :o ......
And, yes. I think intelligent life forms would all appreciate :spyder: 's :cool:

[swissknife]

I also strongly believe that there are alternate realities, concurrent in time (a flexable concept, anyway), and in space.

neutrons are actually poppin' in and out of existence all the time. i wonder why. i wonder, if one on the other side asks himself the same question. and if what are the neutrons i am made of on the other side. a tractor? another swissknife? crazy world, isnt it. :D

[BlackNinja]

That is a great movie. and it is Contact

To think we are the only life in the vast universe to me is silly. No offense to those that are religious but I have a question. How can someone put all there faith and belief in a book written by mans hand about a God and his creation and think that life in another galaxy is mere science fiction. If that were the case why create it at all what would be the point. It truly would be a waste of space.

Good movie. Much better book!!! Carl Sagan is the MAN! (Or was the man, unfortunetly) IMO, I think people are funny that think we are the only ones in the universe! NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY has any idea whats out there! (Unless you believe in an all knowing power)The thing about the Bible (and I mean no offense to anyone, it's just my opinion) that bothers me is, it is about 90% male based. This goes with the majority of relegions, that I know of (I don't know ANY relegions in which Women are prominent!) This is one of the reasons I don't believe, among MANY others. (such as "miracles" and I could be here forever) This is gonna sound corny but, I really do believe in Star Wars "the Force". I believe that everything that surrounds us controls all. I have a profound belief in Karma! This being said, I will now be labeled a "weirdo." It's all good. What goes around comes around, IMO!

[rainman]

Swissknife, after seeing the movie "What the Bleep Do We know?", and for many other reasons, I feel like I "know" that there is a lot more going on then we can see.
If asked to prove it, I would be able to proove it as much as I can prove that there is God/A Higher Power; I can't, really. :o
Some day, though, I believe that much that is considered "magick" by some now, will be explained as easily as electricity is now.
I also believe that, we, as a species, will only learn as much as we can handle. We almost couldn't handle "discovering" atomic power :eek: (reactors or bombs), and that may still be our undoing. But if we make it through that, we may be up for some really interesting "discoveries" :D

[rainman]

BlackNinja, I agree

[Rainy County]

well, somehow i find this hippocritic. there are many rooms but only humans? would you need a room for only yourself? all alone but with your father? could this be that "he" already revealed but it wasnt understood? or explained differently by his "vices" on earth, the popes and priests? are they all faulty? or is the bible just a piece of badly written information then? maybe you noticed i dont like priests and popes too much, cause what they are doing is just as arrogant and selfish. but thats just me.

if "god" as you probably see it exists or not, is another question. do you think that your almighty god could only think of this, our world? i think that omnipotent god would be bored shitless looking at us creatures. well, i would. "if i was god", i would be creating every momentum!! not only other galaxys, but other universes, other worlds and their inhibitents.

I don't think there is living things on other planets. The Bible dosn't say anything about there being living things anywhere other then the earth and I think if there was "aliens" somwhere the Bible would have said so.

And About "There are many rooms in my Fathers house" I think that is refering to there being room in heaven for anyone that decides to believe what the Bible says.

But I agree with you about the popes and priests they don't do just what the Bible says, they have alot of doctrine that I believe is not true, I think they are just selfish people trying to get power.

[smcfalls13]

I don't think there is living things on other planets. The Bible dosn't say anything about there being living things anywhere other then the earth and I think if there was "aliens" somwhere the Bible would have said so.

The only problem with that is the Bible was written by men centuries ago, who would have had no way of knowing about life beyond our planet, and who still thought the world was flat.

I know some will say the bible was written by God, which it very well may have been. I don't presume to know. However, it's words have been in the hands of men for centuries, and the Bible itself has undergone many changes. I seriously doubt that it's content is the same as the original version.

Ever played the "telephone" game as a child, where one person whispers something in the ears of the next, who repeats it the next, etc.

When something is communicated that many times, the final result is often nothing remotely similar to the original.

Just my thoughts, I apologize if I offend anyone with this post. I don't mean it that way.

[2edgesword]

I've been reading a book "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. While the universe is vast according to some of the contributing scientist interviewed in the book it is estimate that only a small percentage of the stars in the universe have the right properties and orientation in there host galaxies to be the host of planets similar in composition to the earth. In addition the Earth has a very unique structure and position in our solar system that provides the ideal habitat for life. The conclusion is that we just might be alone.

[zenheretic]

Wow what a great thread...kinda like playing with nuclear power though...hope everyone can keep from having a "meltdown".

Silverback already hit on one of my thoughts...for those who maintain extraterrestrial life is impossible based on their religion, what will you do IF such life is discovered while you are alive? Something to think about.

Scott also has hit on a major question, using a book thousands of years old as the end all of knowledge, I know of 3 versions in English: Old Testiment, New Testiment, and King James, not to mention "reinterpretations such as the Book of Mormon and maybe the Hari Chrisnas. That isn't even counting the countless translations from the original Klingon or whatever language it was originally written, not to mention it is derived from a different religion (Jewish) who teachings are similar yet vary from this book.

Heck even amongst its followers many can not agree on how to interpret it...otherwise all Christians would be Catholics...or would they be Eastern Orthodox?...hard to say as that religion has split countless times. I often wonder why those who strictly "follow" this book are unable to use the brain that their god has granted them to question it....but of course raising such doubts may brand me a devil. I can accept it is a very useful tool to teach a person how to behave. I can not see it as an answer to every age old question that haunts the soul of mankind.

Buddaism has many similar stories...Buddha battling demons, walking on water, providing food from nothing...Buddhaists just realize these are teachings and didn't actually happen.

One last question, even if you add all flavors of Christians, throw in the Jews and the Muslims (oh you didn't know Muslim was related?) you still only account for roughly half (maybe a bit more) of the souls now on the planet. Are you telling me all those other souls are forever doomed? What about the souls prior to the beginning of Christianity, which are clearly documented in many civilazations. Chinese written history stretchs much further back than European or Middle Eastern written history yet makes no mention of the Bible God. But Chinese aren't in the Bible so maybe they don't exist either.

[StuntZombie]

I read a book a while back that said if things didn't happen at precisely the right time, and certain chemicals weren't present in exactly the right amounts, our universe may have never existed. The same goes for life on our planet. Having said that, I still believe there is life beyond our planets, both further and less evolved than our own. Our universe is roughly 13 billion years old, which means there are worlds out there at least 6 to 7 billion years older than our own, if you give everything at least 1 billion years to cool down and stabilize. Somehow, somewhere else, things had to happen at exactly the right time, with chemicals present in just the right amount.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that those other beings are able to travel such a distance to reach our planet, so we may truly be "alone" in that we just are not capable of reaching any other worlds at this point in time.

As far as the Bible not mentioning other beings in our universe, I imagine there's quite a bit the Bible doesn't mention. Like another poster said, this book was written in a time when people still thought the world was flat. From what I understand, it was also written by those that were in power at the time. Factor in the fact the number of times it's been reinterpreted over the years, and you have a book of convoluted messages.

Myself, I don't believe that God even exists. The mere existence of the Babelfish is proof of that.(Some of you might get that one )

[zenheretic]

I've been reading a book "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. While the universe is vast according to some of the contributing scientist interviewed in the book it is estimate that only a small percentage of the stars in the universe have the right properties and orientation in there host galaxies to be the host of planets similar in composition to the earth. In addition the Earth has a very unique structure and position in our solar system that provides the ideal habitat for life. The conclusion is that we just might be alone.

Yes, if you take the most pessimistic estimates of all known variables the equation comes out to 1 = life on earth. If you take the most optimistic estimates for the variables the equation yields a much higher number. Most likely it would be somewhere in the middle of those guesses...which is still greater than 1.

Earth is really out in the sticks in regards to interstellar locations...hard to see past the vast emptiness out here.

[StuntZombie]

zenheretic,

Thank you for putting in words what I often think, but can rarely explain.

In my conversations with a few Christians, I was often surprised at their belief that people like the Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims were going to **** if they didn't accept Christ in their life. I'm not trying to ridicule any of our fellow forumites, but I've often wondered how they would feel if they went to Heaven and learned that there were Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, etc..there as well...kinda brings a grin to my face..

Edited to add..I think the only meltdown that is going to occur is in my head, trying to consider the vastness of everything. If you think about it, that's a lot of space out there.

[zenheretic]

zenheretic,

Thank you for putting in words what I often think, but can rarely explain.

In my conversations with a few Christians, I was often surprised at their belief that people like the Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims were going to **** if they didn't accept Christ in their life. I'm not trying to ridicule any of our fellow forumites, but I've often wondered how they would feel if they went to Heaven and learned that there were Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, etc..there as well...kinda brings a grin to my face..

Edited to add..I think the only meltdown that is going to occur is in my head, trying to consider the vastness of everything. If you think about it, that's a lot of space out there.

Likely why, as a species, we are not ready for the answers to our most nagging humankind questions: Are we alone? Why are we here? Who made us?

[BlackNinja]

I've been reading a book "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. While the universe is vast according to some of the contributing scientist interviewed in the book it is estimate that only a small percentage of the stars in the universe have the right properties and orientation in there host galaxies to be the host of planets similar in composition to the earth. In addition the Earth has a very unique structure and position in our solar system that provides the ideal habitat for life. The conclusion is that we just might be alone.

What do you consider a small % of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,etc.....? How does ANYBODY know if intelligent life can't survive in ANYTHIN except what WE see as being habitable! How does anybody know for sure if intelligent life can't live in 1,000,000,000 degree weather? Just because we've "contacted" a couple planets! :rolleyes: Truth is, NO ONE on Earth knows whats really going on. To believe, is great, for some relegions! (although most aren't that great for women) The Earth has ben here for millions or billions of years, we use on average of 10% of our brain,if WE are it, I'm a little and :o , We do have suffering, hunger,curroption, violence, oppression and nuclear weapons. We are in a world of violence and degredation! IMO! In the Bible (please, no offense, if I do, I will delete) the first, and only people on earth were Adam and Eve. Now how can they produce people of other races, why aren't everybodys DNA similar due to insest, and so many other questions that are left unanswered? I f this post offends anybody, Im sorr and will remove it.

[zenheretic]

I wouldn't remove it BN...you pose questions nothing more. WE are meant to question.

The incest/genetic question is a very good question. You can't explain it away by generational changes as that really is evolution and evolution is not possible to most Bible holders. Great question.

[rainman]

There are a lot of very interesting thoughts going on here :)
We are somewhere in infinity. That's one to burn out some brain cells trying to comprehend. The fact is, it is incomprehensable. There is no # to use in any equation, so, there is no math for infinity. Probability cannot be determined, pretty much any argument against other life in infinity is out the window. Unless you believe that there is an end somewhere. If so, what is beyond that point ?
I need to go put some ice on me head..... :D

[swissknife]

thanks for putting things together so nicely.. :D

this has become more interessting than i initially thought!!

i am very pleased with the amount of people that share the same beliefs or have a similar approach. this is great! :cool:

EDIT: its a shame, they say that the universe IS limited. that it will collapse one day. pulling together the materia (which actually is only energy basically) to a point of extremest density. a super novae.

and will restart again, creating again from zero to unthinkable in a matter of minutes (scientists say that most of the universe was made in about the first five minutes of its existence, namely helium and nitrogene). makes ones head turn, doesnt it?

if you look at science and its approaches from a couple to hundreds and even thousands of years from now it becomes quite clear (for all the bible instructeds out there, science claims the existence of god), there was a moment of creation.

but if you would turn that to people that still believed the world is flat, maybe they would just have gone bananas?! maybe that is why the bible didnt mention it. there were passages removed from the bible, taking rebirth out of it completely people say. look a science books. they change, or get changed. long time that book has been around.

"god" came to our planet a couple of times maybe, first buddha, then jesus, maybe muhammed was the last reincarnation. so the islams book, the koran, would be the "latest news" (or "bodycount" as i read and found amusing and fitting) as about 600 years old.

this whole thing actually gets pretty much religion hijacked, isnt it? the existence of aliens would turn everyones head upside down. but all the churches, their existence would be all questionable. governments as well.
NEW WORLD (DIS-)ORDER!

[2edgesword]

"In my conversations with a few Christians, I was often surprised at their belief that people like the Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims were going to **** if they didn't accept Christ in their life. I'm not trying to ridicule any of our fellow forumites, but I've often wondered how they would feel if they went to Heaven and learned that there were Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, etc..there as well...kinda brings a grin to my face."

The Bible (New Testament portion) is very clear about the "way of salvation" and it's the narrow way through faith in Jesus Christ.

What I think many Christians miss is the fact that for someone to believe in Jesus Christ they first have to hear the message. The reality is there are probably a couple of billion people on the planet that have never heard the salvation story of the birth, life, crucification, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So how is God going to judge these multitudes that have come and gone who have not heard the message and given no opportunity to recieve what the Bible calls the gift of salvation. I think the Apostle Paul gives us a clue about this in the Book of Romans when he writes:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

The major concern expressed in the Bible (with respect to eternal destiny) is for those that HAVE heard the message of God's love, mercy and grace and have rejected it.

I reading a book about the history of prayer in America. It begins with the very spiritual culture that existed among the Indians and expressed in very active prayer life. The following is the prayer of an Indian warrior getting ready to go into battle:

"O poor me! Who am going out to fight the enemy. And know not whether I shall return again, to enjoy the embraces of my children and my wife.

O poor creature! Whose life is not in his own hands, who has no power over his own body, but tries to do his duty for the welfare of his nation

O! thou Great Spirit above! Take pity on my children and on my wife! Prevent their mounring on my account!

Grant that I may be successful in this attempt, that I may slay my enemy, and bring home the trophies of war to my dear family and friends. That we may rejoice together.

O! Take pity on me. Give me strength and courage to meet my enemy, suffer me to return agains to my children to my wife and to my relations.

Take pity on me and preserve my life and I will make to thee a sacrifice."

This and other American Indian prayers (thankgiving for the harvest, requesting blessing for the hunt, acknowledgment that life is a gift from the Great Spirit, etc.) are what the Apostle Paul was say when he said that the things of God can be known from His creation.

I believe God will righteously judge those that have never heard the message of salvation through Jesus Christ based on how they responded to the light they DID HAVE. I also believe there are aspects of God's justice, judgement and plan, especially as it relates to this issue, that we don't have knowledge of from the Bible.

Having said this the critical issue as expressed in the Bible is really about those that have heard the message, and whether or not they have accepted or rejected it.

[BlackNinja]

I believe in "The Force"!!!! I'm not kidding, my beliefs are much more complicated but, I believe in the basic princibles in the aforementioned.

I'm also really interested in Scientology\Dianetics.