TazKristi wrote:First, guys, let's keep from the negative comments about our own and other countries. We don't need the politics here. No country is perfect, just like no one person is perfect either.
Bodz,
I'm sorry for your troubles, but the D'Allara does seem to be one that is particularly difficult to get across the border. I handle Canada as part of my Sales Territory for our wholesale Sales. It honestly seems to be a crap-shoot. Depending on the day and the agent that gets your package. I have had entire orders stopped. We've brought them back, shipped them out again and then they get through without incident.
There is no fool proof answer though.
Kristi
Politicians caused this problem and getting the correct ones in office can cure it, IMHO. Nobody is ticked at the citizenry just some of the goofy laws (regardless of who's country they originate) that impinge on personal freedom and responsibility. To confiscate someone's small folding rescue knife gets my adrenaline flowing!!!
Have a great day and Thanksgiving (or whatever the equivalent is up north of the border).
Virtually every jurisdiction has laws that the "locals" disagree with. I certainly feel that the enforcement of the "gravity knife" or "centifugal force" prohibitions on Canadian imports is overzealous and unneccessary (Customs would do more good stopping gun smuggling into Canada from the USA - IMHO). I'm thankful however that we don't have some of the laws that others have, such as no locking blades, no one-hand openers or no knives over 2" (Boston).
Good Luck bodz (but don't hold your breath for a positive outcome )
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
Very sorry to hear about your customs seizure. :mad: Unfortunately, as other forum members have pointed out, your only recourse under appeal is to prove to customs that you require the knife to do your job. I was able to recover mine as I'm in the military & had my boss write up a letter stating that I'm required to use such tools in my job. Any police or EMT/fire personnel could do the same & should be sucessful in getting their knives back. Otherwise in the future you'll have to have your sellers tighten the pivot nut as was mentioned. I've spoken to one of the customs guys who do these inspections & all they do is try to flick the knife open and if it opens then they seize the item. Cheers & Good Luck in your future purchases.
Jim
:spyder: Be convinced that to be happy means to be free and that to be free means to be brave. Therefore do not take lightly the perils of war.--Thucydides-- :spyder:
:spyder: "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it." .--Thucydides-- :spyder:
If you were to appeal the decision, and they allowed you to, you would have to appear in court for the appeal…at a certain point, the trouble; travel time; and expense would be more than the cost of the knife itself. IF your appeal were successful, it would probably take 6 months to a year before you actually had your property in your hands.
I have returned 2 Spydercos to the U.S. of A. in the past 6 months…customs will not allow you to use regular mail, because they are fascists. Purolator ground shipping was under 25 canadian dollars per knife. The knives got through the 2nd time, even though they had not been pivot-tightened. HOWEVER-There is no guarantee…you may have to go through it all again.
The easiest way to figure out how to do this is to phone customs, and ask them how. Even though they are a lower form of life than the bacteria that resides in your feces, try to be polite, and they should be willing to talk you through it.
Not to minimize your plight, but the Spydercos I had this happen with, THIS year, (there have been others) were over $100 U.S. EACH (Yojimbo and Chinook2.) At a certain point, you might want to just “surrender”, as crappy as that sounds, because you could get your self a new knife for the cost of all the extra b-s.
Bodz, I feel your pain. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to when a knife gets stopped. A friend of mine ordered a D'Allara but the Spydie folks sent him a Spyderfly (definitly illegal in Canada) by mistake. It made it through with no delay.
Having said that, I will balance Bodz story with my own. I have been trading with other knife knutz across the border for almost 3 years now. To date, I have received at least 20 knives across the US/Ontario boarder. I have never lost a knife, or even had it delayed at customs. I didn't always, but now I always ask for pivots to be tightened and the packages to be identified as "hand tools".
Maybe, just maybe, some customs guy is doing his job exactly as he has been told. Maybe he's not evil, or a jerk, or creating his own collection at home. Folks here are so supportive of each other; I am surprised at the vitriol for a faceless customs worker.
[quote="thom lambert"]Bodz, I feel your pain. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to when a knife gets stopped. A friend of mine ordered a D'Allara but the Spydie folks sent him a Spyderfly (definitly illegal in Canada) by mistake. It made it through with no delay.
Having said that, I will balance Bodz story with my own. I have been trading with other knife knutz across the border for almost 3 years now. To date, I have received at least 20 knives across the US/Ontario boarder. I have never lost a knife, or even had it delayed at customs. I didn't always, but now I always ask for pivots to be tightened and the packages to be identified as "hand tools".
Maybe, just maybe, some customs guy is doing his job exactly as he has been told. Maybe he's not evil, or a jerk, or creating his own collection at home. Folks here are so supportive of each other]Thom, I agree. I think it is more likely the Customs employee or employees evaluating these knives as illegal is misinformed, and perhaps a bit overzealous, rather than that they are evil or stupid.
I do, however, doubt that their interpetation is correct, only because, unlike that Spyderfly that slipped through "under the radar" despite being clearly illegal in your country, the same knives that get confiscated when shipped to private parties are shipped in larger quantities to, and sold openly by, Canadian dealers.
Unless there is some proviso in Canadian law which creates different standards for what is legal to import "privately" and "commercially",the seizures have to be categorized as wrong. While such "double standards" are normal for certain products, pharmaceuticals being the most obvious, I'd think it fairly unlikely they exist in this case. And, if they did, would assume Customs or someone else with knowledge of Canadian law would have pointed them out.
I would venture to guess that US manufacturers may be less than eager to press this issue. Doing so might very well anger their Canadian dealers who are probably not terribly unhappy with a situation which makes purchasing from them seem more attractive to Canadian customers.
And yes, there are weird laws and weirder interpretations of them in many countries, including the USA. I can, legally, shop in my local supermarket while wearing a kukri, as long as I keep it concealed. On the other hand, simply having an operational 100 year old, 2" bladed "automatic" knife, in my home would be a felony. The true irony is that those "evil switchblades" were originally sold to schoolgirls, for use in school. :eek: They allowed the young ladies to sharpen their pencils without the risk of breaking a fingernail opening a conventional nail-nick slipjoint,
try to have your money back, and after ask the seller to send the knife as "camping tool" or in a package with the value of less then 50$ It work for me !
[quote="thom lambert"]Bodz, I feel your pain. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to when a knife gets stopped. A friend of mine ordered a D'Allara but the Spydie folks sent him a Spyderfly (definitly illegal in Canada) by mistake. It made it through with no delay.
Having said that, I will balance Bodz story with my own. I have been trading with other knife knutz across the border for almost 3 years now. To date, I have received at least 20 knives across the US/Ontario boarder. I have never lost a knife, or even had it delayed at customs. I didn't always, but now I always ask for pivots to be tightened and the packages to be identified as "hand tools".
Maybe, just maybe, some customs guy is doing his job exactly as he has been told. Maybe he's not evil, or a jerk, or creating his own collection at home. Folks here are so supportive of each other]
Sir, I am glad that you have never had to deal with customs, and I truly hope that this continues for you. However, I can almost guarantee that if they ever do steal 1 of your knives, your opinion of them will simply plummet. For me, this trend continues with each knife they take.
I can also almost guarantee, that bodz, the fellow we are trying to help, is feeling the same way I do at this point, and if he has to actually speak with the people who stole from him, it will be even worse…I know this from experience, sir.
Again sir, I wish you continued success with your knife-transactions.
Are you able to redirect the purchase to a Crown authorized firearms or sporting goods dealer? Sometimes that is the easiest route but might cost a buck or two for handling fees ... works in most states here that have nebulous restrictions on knife restrictions ... good luck my friend. :o
I agree that it is not a topic worth speaking on, in regards to comparing the flaws of two countries.
I am **** proud to be Canadian. Incredible People And Place.
About the Customs thing: I work in the aviation industry and have to deal with Transport Canada. Just like Canada Customs, Transport Canada is also a federal beaurocracy. They have a book. It is a very detailed book. They follow and enforce word-for-word what is in that regulations book. This is done for obvious aviation safety reasons.
I am sure that Canada Customs is much this way also. So, when they find a knife that is being imported, I'm sure that they go in their rule book and look in the knife section. What the book says, they follow word-for-word. It does not matter to them if it is an awesome Spyderco sheeps-foot blade rescue style knife. Sure it matters to us, because we can obviously see that it is not designed or intended as a weapon, and it is not designed as a centrifugal opening knife. But it probably doesn't say in their book that it is okay for a knife to be flickable as long as it is a rescue knife. It likely does not state that if the knife is not designed to be, but still can be actually flicked open, then it is okay. Customs officers are not automatically knife enthusiasts. I wish there could be some room for discretion guided by common sense when enforcing these laws. But not everyone has common sense so we are back to having to follow word-for-word what is stated in the Regulations Books.
What we need to do is take a good look at who we are electing into power to write these regulations books. Even before that though, we need to decide in what direction we want our social structure to go, and then vote for the officials who will be most likely to implement it. Unfortunately, in Canadian politics there is no "National Common Sense Party" on the ballot.
Getting a copy of these import regulations might help us figure out what exactly we need to do in order to successfully import these knives we all appreciate so much.
twizted wrote:try to have your money back, and after askXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX It work for me !
I hope Canada Customs is not reading this thread.
Perhaps it would be best to delete your post and this one?
Discussing ways of getting around customs restrictions on public forums is usually frowned on.
My father always taught me not to trust a man who was not interested in cars, guns and knives.
Here a couple of months ago. I sent my friend Vampyrewolf some coffee type drnk mixes. It took I believe close to 5 weeks for him to get it. I was ultimately glad he got it because I was truly afraid that the man thought I was lying to him. I'm sorry but drink mixes do not pose a national security risk :mad: .
Now in the knife category I have done 3 trades with my Canadian brothers. All 3 turned out all right except 2 of the 3 really got hammered with customs fees even though I labeled them a "gift". There's something very, very wrong when 2 grown men in 2 different countries can't even trade pocket knives without government thugs interfering in the process. YES!! I said Thugs and I mean it too If it were firearms I could sort of understand a little extra scrutiny. But with all of the hunting, fishing, hiking and other outdoor activities up in Canada you would think that knives would be an absolute necessity in the same league as food.
I like my Canadian knife brothers :) and I hope to get to know more of them as time goes on but this crap of 2 grown men can't even trade a pocket knife or even fixed blade knife without "BIG BROTHER" sticking his ugly nose in the deal is utterly ridiculous. I also collect a German make of fishing reel ( DAM Quick) and there is a great guy up in Alberta ( http://www.thereeldr.com) and I have to get parts and service from him time to time. It usually takes about 6 weeks just to get a reel repaired and sent back to me. How is that promoting good economic flow for Canada. I know there are those of you who probably disagree with me. But think about it this way. Over 10 years ago we enacted the NAFTA agreement which was supposed to open up trade between us, Canada & Mexico. It did not do any such thing. All it did was make the filth rich much more wealthy and it put many more stupid restrictions on us average citizens. GOD Bless you all :) :spyder:
Here are some Customs links:
Customs standard operating procedures are called the D-Memos and are available to the public. Weapons imort/export info is covered in chapter D19-13.
(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, e.g., switchblade and butterfly knives; or
(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon.
8. The device known as the "Constant Companion", being a belt containing a blade capable of being withdrawn from the belt, with the buckle of the belt forming a handle for the blade, and any similar device.
9. Any knife commonly known as a "push-dagger" that is designed in such a fashion that the handle is placed perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade and any other similar device other than the aboriginal "ulu" knife.
10. Any device having a length of less than 30 cm and resembling an innocuous object but designed to conceal a knife or blade, including the device commonly known as the "knife-comb", being a comb with the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife, and any similar device.
Talonturbo-in your part of Canada there's no laws against fixed blades? Wow. And Canada is more strict on rules regarding folding knives? I'll never make sense out of weapons laws. In Washington State (I'll only discuss knives since that's the topic), in Seattle, fixed blades are illegal to carry, Lord knows why(?), but folders are not, unless the blade length is over 3 1/2 inches. Go outside Seattle and you can carry fixed blades or folders, no restrictions (to the best of my knowlege) except you can't carry a butterfly or a switchblade or a gravity knife.
I don't know what makes a fixed blade or folder "bad" in one state or country and "good" in another.
Edited to add-what "some" people have been known to do, according to what I've been told, is to purchase what they want in canada or mexico and simply forget they had it when they crossed the border. I guess this might have been known to occur with folks going the other way.This is anecdotal and not something that I can recommend, but in the case of small items for personal use, I can't imagine those who might have ever done anything like this would lose any sleep over it or suffer from a guilty conscience.
I just received my D'Allara from the US to Canada. Customs charged an additional $8.51 for it, but it came through without even being opened. I guess it just depends on the inspector and the day...
I don't want to stir the political pot but didn't I just read the Canadian legislator passed a no-confidence vote of some sort? I'm not sure what that is or means. Maybe it will trickle down to some of these custom folks. Let's hope so.
d.g.g wrote:I don't want to stir the political pot but didn't I just read the Canadian legislator passed a no-confidence vote of some sort? I'm not sure what that is or means. Maybe it will trickle down to some of these custom folks. Let's hope so.
Not a chance! Customs seizing knives is not anywhere close to being an issue the politicians are thinking about in the campaign. Guns being smuggled in from the USA - maybe because of recent publicity. Customs seizing imported knives, not even an issue 99.9% of Canadians are aware of or care about.
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
I'm still unclear as to what this all means to responsible law-abiding Canadian knife owners.
Are there any knife manufacturers up in Canada and if so who are they? Wondered if they were outlawed.
The "nonconfidence vote" was a function of our last federal government being a "minority" government. That means that the party in power did not have a majority of seats in parliment (hard to fathom if your used to a 2 party system, but it does happen all over the world in multi-party systems). The other parties finally decided they had had enough, and voted that they had "no confidence" in the current parliment. That means that the parliment gets dissolved and a new one gets elected in an upcoming January election. (there are not fixed election dates in Canada)
There are plenty of knifemakers in Canada - knives are not outlawed, just certain types of knives (like most jurisdictions in the states and many other countries). I find that there is a general perception on most of the knife forums, that Canadians have less access to both knives and guns. Per capita gun ownership in Canada is very close to what it is in the US.
I have talked extensivly to law-enforcement officers about what constitutes a "gravity knife". In Ontario, the legal test is being able to flick the blade open 3 times in succession, without touching the blade. (Why that kind of knife is illegal and an openly carried 9" bowie isn't - go figure) I don't know if that is the test they use at the border.
I was actually told something quite different by 1 customs officer…
Apparently, what “this particular customs officer” that I spoke to considered illegal is a knife SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE OPENED BY GRAVITY ALONE. So, imagine a Spyderco folder without a hole (horrors!)…(C27!) or a folding knife without a thumb-stud.
In other words, the Spyderfly, specifically designed to open by the centrifical force generated by twirling or flipping, would not be legal here. A Spydie folder, being designed to open by use of the opening hole, would be legal, because, the fact that it *could* be opened centrifically is “incidental” to its design. This is why you can buy “flickable” Gerber knives avec thumb-studs, and the like, at canadian Walmarts…because such knives are perfectly legal in canada. Spydercos are even being sold in a few stores around toronto, displayed openly.
Perhaps the most frustrating thing is that the grade 4 education, and "thorough" training of these customs ***-holes means that they never have things like opening holes and thumb-studs explained to them. There is absolutely no consistency whatsoever. The lack of consistency itself is not the problem, though…the problem is that you will actually have to go to court, and wait 6 to 12 months, before you will finally be able to get your property from these mouth-breathing nazis, unless you want to donate some money to a courier company.
And of course, as mentioned previously, even if you were to invest the time and effort in court, it would still all be up to someone’s “interpretation” of the law. Given these circumstances, that means that EVERY canadian Spyderco folder owner is a “criminal”. While I would never hurt anyone unless I had no other choice, I myself am proud to wear that label.
And for the record, I have “no confidence” in canada customs.
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