Crazy Good Deals Part 2!!

[pinchyfisher]

Sad to hear of this change. Easy to see this ending with only a handful of big players left as dealers.

I think more than any other knife brand, small dealers were able to serve Spydie afi's in a sustainable and competetive way by limiting brands/stock and offering great prices.

I hope the remaining small/niche dealers can find a way to survive. I'd rather give my money to a dealer that is a small shop/Spydie nut than a big business.

Can't say I understand the reasoning for this change unless its pressure from the big dealers.

I guess also in reality, any knife dealer is a small fish in the grand scheme of businesses?

[Enactive]

I stand corrected. Thanks. I need to read the new fine print. It sounds like the new policy is minimum price, not minimum advertised price then.

MAP is minimum advertised price. Discounts only shown with login or in-basket are explicitly allowed.

I don't think that is correct anymore. Freedom Knife Shop had to drastically alter their in-cart discount policy and switch to a voucher program based on a percentage of purchased knives.

I would be thrilled to be wrong, however.

MAP is minimum advertised price. Discounts only shown with login or in-basket are explicitly allowed.

Spyderco updated their policy this year and I believe the loopholes around MAP are no longer allowed.

MAP is minimum advertised price. Discounts only shown with login or in-basket are explicitly allowed.

Spyderco updated their policy this year and I believe the loopholes around MAP are no longer allowed.

MAP is no more. It is now MEP- Minimum Enforced Pricing, aka vertical price fixing.

[dullmaker]

I've been depending on this thread and the reputable dealers that offered discounts to be able to still purchase Spyderco's in between map holidays. I'm disappointed that's ending. I will just have to be more selective in my already greatly reduced purchase of knives as I only purchase Spyderco's. Happy wife. At least I have enough knives for the next few lifetimes. And higher prices mean higher resale prices for previously purchased knives not used.
This thread will be missed.
Bruce

[Mushroom]

MAP is minimum advertised price. Discounts only shown with login or in-basket are explicitly allowed.

Spyderco updated their policy this year and I believe the loopholes around MAP are no longer allowed.

MAP is no more. It is now MEP- Minimum Enforced Pricing, aka vertical price fixing.

Unfortunately true.

_________


Retailers might have to start selling expensive stickers and including free Spyderco's with them.

[zhyla]

Can't say I understand the reasoning for this change unless it’s pressure from the big dealers.

No, it’s the small dealers that benefit from MAP. If it weren’t for MAP we’d be buying all our knives from
Amazon, BladeHQ, KnifeCenter, etc. And at lower prices.

I guess also in reality, any knife dealer is a small fish in the grand scheme of businesses?

I have no numbers but just based on sites like BladeHQ stocking around 20k knife models, no, I would not ever refer to that as a “small” business.

[Red Leader]

I don't have enough of an economic/business background to really form an opinion on this one way or another. I'm sure there are tradeoffs. My thoughts were more going toward someone who is in the market for (but not yet tried) a Spyderco , but were sent a link from a friend on a really good deal saying 'buy this one!' and that starting the ball rolling on a lifelong customer. I also don't know how realistic that scenario is. We all start out somewhere, and I think perhaps a lot of people buy their first Spyderco with a lot of skepticism, or at least more than some other brands.

The MAP holidays are a welcomed relief from some of these policies and the price increases. I sincerely hope those don't go away.

[WilliamMunny]

It’s probably not a Spyderco choice.

If Spyderco does not evenly enforce MAP, allowing some work arounds, then other dealers who follow MAP will, rightly so be upset.

If MAP is the way to go, I don’t know, but I do think if Spyderco uses MAP it should be fairly enforced for everyone.

[sovereign]

It’s probably not a Spyderco choice.

If Spyderco does not evenly enforce MAP, allowing some work arounds, then other deals who follow MAP will, rightly so be upset.

If MAP is the way to go, I don’t know, but I do think if Spyderco uses MAP it should be fairly enforced for everyone.

“Work arounds” are allowed under a MAP policy. If you control the final sale price it is no longer a MAP policy, it is price fixing.

[sovereign]

I just looked at Dack and it looks like all the Spydercos are now gone.

Does this have anything to do with the clamping down of MAP as of recent? Looks like we saw individual retailers getting shut down, and then larger shops like Freedom having to drastically alter their operations. Now Dack? Can anyone confirm?

I was hearing quite a few reports of people who had planned a purchase of a new Spyderco now holding off because of some of these policies trickling down to their favorite retailers.

If so, I'm afraid this thread will be relegated to used and non-official (i.e. personal) sales.

DACK has actually gone out of business.

https://dackoutdoors.com/closing

[WilliamMunny]

It’s probably not a Spyderco choice.

If Spyderco does not evenly enforce MAP, allowing some work arounds, then other deals who follow MAP will, rightly so be upset.

If MAP is the way to go, I don’t know, but I do think if Spyderco uses MAP it should be fairly enforced for everyone.

“Work arounds” are allowed under a MAP policy. If you control the final sale price it is no longer a MAP policy, it is price fixing.

As long as it’s fair for everyone and no exceptions are made.

[Red Leader]

I just looked at Dack and it looks like all the Spydercos are now gone.

Does this have anything to do with the clamping down of MAP as of recent? Looks like we saw individual retailers getting shut down, and then larger shops like Freedom having to drastically alter their operations. Now Dack? Can anyone confirm?

I was hearing quite a few reports of people who had planned a purchase of a new Spyderco now holding off because of some of these policies trickling down to their favorite retailers.

If so, I'm afraid this thread will be relegated to used and non-official (i.e. personal) sales.

DACK has actually gone out of business.

https://dackoutdoors.com/closing

Wow. Thank you for letting me know, I had no idea. They had nothing about it that I saw on their homepage. Appreciate the heads up.

[8th_Note]

I just looked at Dack and it looks like all the Spydercos are now gone.

Does this have anything to do with the clamping down of MAP as of recent? Looks like we saw individual retailers getting shut down, and then larger shops like Freedom having to drastically alter their operations. Now Dack? Can anyone confirm?

I was hearing quite a few reports of people who had planned a purchase of a new Spyderco now holding off because of some of these policies trickling down to their favorite retailers.

If so, I'm afraid this thread will be relegated to used and non-official (i.e. personal) sales.

DACK has actually gone out of business.

https://dackoutdoors.com/closing

Welp, I guess that's why my order hasn't shipped and no one has responded to email inquiries. Sounds like I'll have to get in line if I want my money back

[zhyla]

“Work arounds” are allowed under a MAP policy. If you control the final sale price it is no longer a MAP policy, it is price fixing.

I believe in the USA price fixing (which is illegal) is defined as competitors agreeing on pricing. It’s legal to enforce pricing on retailers.

[sovereign]

“Work arounds” are allowed under a MAP policy. If you control the final sale price it is no longer a MAP policy, it is price fixing.

I believe in the USA price fixing (which is illegal) is defined as competitors agreeing on pricing. It’s legal to enforce pricing on retailers.

Don’t take my word for it :

Hi GS,

MAP is "Minimum ADVERTISED Price". It's not fixing prices, just not permitting some companies to advertise very low prices. As I understand it, price fixing is illegal?

sal

https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1052527

___________________________________________________

“Vertical price-fixing occurs when companies at different levels of a supply chain agree to control the prices at which products or services are sold. This typically involves an agreement between a manufacturer and its distributors or retailers, or between a wholesaler and its retailers, to set, maintain, or otherwise manipulate resale prices. Such agreements are generally illegal under antitrust laws because they reduce competition and can harm consumers by limiting their choices and potentially increasing costs.”

https://lsd.law/define/vertical-price-fixing

[BornIn1500]

“Vertical price-fixing occurs when companies at different levels of a supply chain agree to control the prices at which products or services are sold. This typically involves an agreement between a manufacturer and its distributors or retailers, or between a wholesaler and its retailers, to set, maintain, or otherwise manipulate resale prices. Such agreements are generally illegal under antitrust laws because they reduce competition and can harm consumers by limiting their choices and potentially increasing costs.”

https://lsd.law/define/vertical-price-fixing

Should probably go straight to the government's own webpage for the information.

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/com ... quirements

"Reasonable price, territory, and customer restrictions on dealers are legal. Manufacturer-imposed requirements can benefit consumers by increasing competition among different brands (interbrand competition) even while reducing competition among dealers in the same brand (intrabrand competition). For instance, an agreement between a manufacturer and dealer to set maximum (or "ceiling") prices prevents dealers from charging a non-competitive price. Or an agreement to set minimum (or "floor") prices or to limit territories may encourage dealers to provide a level of service that the manufacturer wants to offer to consumers when they buy the product."

also

"If a manufacturer, on its own, adopts a policy regarding a desired level of prices, the law allows the manufacturer to deal only with retailers who agree to that policy. A manufacturer also may stop dealing with a retailer that does not follow its resale price policy. That is, a manufacturer can implement a dealer policy on a "take it or leave it" basis."

[CDEP]

We essentially now have MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price), which only applies to SFO purchases, and MSP (Minimum Sale Price?), which applies to ALL retailers.

The only competition regarding price is now the loyalty points programs. I suspect that retailers who do not offer them will not be long in the market.

[w3tnz]

BOOooo! (throws tomatoes).

[Jefferson444]

I just looked at Dack and it looks like all the Spydercos are now gone.

Does this have anything to do with the clamping down of MAP as of recent? Looks like we saw individual retailers getting shut down, and then larger shops like Freedom having to drastically alter their operations. Now Dack? Can anyone confirm?

I was hearing quite a few reports of people who had planned a purchase of a new Spyderco now holding off because of some of these policies trickling down to their favorite retailers.

If so, I'm afraid this thread will be relegated to used and non-official (i.e. personal) sales.

DACK has actually gone out of business.

https://dackoutdoors.com/closing

Welp, I guess that's why my order hasn't shipped and no one has responded to email inquiries. Sounds like I'll have to get in line if I want my money back

Same here. I’d been in communication with them about the unusual length of time (even for Dack) and nothing was mentioned.

[Skywalker]

BentoBoxShop currently has their K390 Para3 exclusive on sale for $225 (vs usual $245).

Not a crazy deal or anything but mentioning since there has been some discussion of Golden-production K390 in other threads recently. (PM2 is currently still full $265 price, to save you a click.)

[abbazaba]

This is very sad, and a step in the wrong direction for consumers.