VG-10 criticism: why?

[M_J87]

I find a common theme in threads/comments/videos in regard to VG-10 seemingly in particular. Seems like a love or hate steel, and I generally don't see much explanation on the dislike side. Comparable steels like BD1N and 154CM don't generally seem to get as much flak.

When first getting into knives I kind of ignored the mid grade steels in exchange for the more expensive and harder to sharpen alternatives. As I've matured and my collection has matured, I've started to really gravitate toward the mid grade steels and found I honestly don't need the super high edge retention stuff. The mid grade steels work "just fine". I never find myself away from my sharpmaker long enough where my VG-10 knife gets so dull I can't effectively use it.

So my question to those who dislike VG-10, have you used it? What don't you like? Is it hypothetical or practical? Are you bored of the steel? Do you like others better? Or does it just come down to plain old preference? I implore you to try it out if you haven't, you might change your mind. I respect any and all opinions.

[Stuart Ackerman]

If I was limited by some law or statute to only own knives with one steel...VG10 or AEB-L...

Toss a coin on the fateful day...

[zhyla]

There’s so much going with steel obsessed people besides steel performance.

VG-10 has been used by Spyderco on Seki models for like 30 years. Some people are just bored with it. Some of those people would be perfectly happy with a new steel that performed identically as long as it had a new name.

I’ve honestly not encountered any “hate” for VG-10. Just some people want something less vanilla. Which is fine. It has never stopped being a good steel for my purposes.

[Danke]

Nothing sadder than an old super steel going on the pull.

[James Y]

It’ll eventually happen to every current “super steel” if they’re around long enough. It’s no longer the cool new kid on the block.

People like what they like. I personally still like VG-10. I like it a lot better than the 154CM or old ATS-34 blades I still own, in terms of use. I like it both PE and SE, but I think it’s quite impressive in SE.

Jim

[Manixguy@1994]

I’ve used and still have many knives in VG10 , most recent the Rock Jumper SE and the knife performs very well . I think it is a great part of Spyderco history how steels have progressed over the years . MG2

[SpyderEdgeForever]

It’ll eventually happen to every current “super steel” if they’re around long enough. It’s no longer the cool new kid on the block.

People like what they like. I personally still like VG-10. I like it a lot better than the 154CM or old ATS-34 blades I still own, in terms of use. I like it both PE and SE, but I think it’s quite impressive in SE.

Jim

What do you say makes VG10 better or different than ATS34?

ATS34 is my buddy. I call it Star Trek Steel.

[Sharp Guy]

It's the same for S30V and any other steels that Spyderco used a lot as a base steel. People get bored and need the latest and greatest steel fix.

I like trying different steels too but the past few years I've kind of gotten over it. For my (basic) use the value to a lot of these steels is lost on me. I'm just as happy with something like VG-10 as I am with 15V or REX45, etc.

[Wartstein]

I love VG10 for serrated edges and still like it for PE.. especially for how quick and easy it can be touched up on a Sharpmaker (very nice for a guy like me who is really not a pro-sharpener).

And: As far as I recall after all VG10 is one of the (not too many?) steels that was actually designed from scratch for high end cutting (tools)?

For a while it somehow seemed to me that Spydercos newer VG10 had better edge retention than older ones... but I seem to recall that Sal did not confirm this..?

[James Y]

I love VG10 for serrated edges and still like it for PE.. especially for how quick and easy it can be touched up on a Sharpmaker (very nice for a guy like me who is really not a pro-sharpener).

And: As far as I recall after all VG10 is one of the (not too many?) steels that was actually designed from scratch for high end cutting (tools)?

For a while it somehow seemed to me that Spydercos newer VG10 had better edge retention than older ones... but I seem to recall that Sal did not confirm this..?

IIRC, VG-10 was originally for knives used for horticultural purposes.

Jim

[Wartstein]

...
IIRC, VG-10 was originally for knives used for horticultural purposes.

Jim

Thanks, Jim!
Something like that is what I recall too.

[olywa]

I'm a big fan of SE VG-10 Spydies, and I have some beautiful high-performance Japanese kitchen knives in this steel. No complaints from me.

[DansGearAddiction]

Honestly, I think it goes beyond VG-10 since there are several excellent steels that have “fallen out of vogue” over the last 5 years or so.

I also don't think it's popularity has decreased because of it's properties, it's the manufacturers dropping it becausse of a shift in consumers that demanded "the best" as a result of the Instagramification of EDC.

• D2: Oversaturated on budget knives, though there were real concerns about corrosion resistance, particularly for in coastal areas. I was happy to see 9Cr18MoV, Nitro-V, and AR-RPM9 replace this.
• LC200N: Magnacut basically killed this steel despite the fact that it is tougher than Magnacut; LC200N was rarely used by knife makers outside of Spyderco and Quietcarry, and at least once by Kizer. Custom makers like Oz Machine Company used it, but replaced it with Magnacut when that became the popular kid.
• M390/CPM-20CV/CTS-204P: Killed by Magnacut and the over-saturation of M390 in particular; I think only Spyderco, Microtech, and Zero Tolerance use this the Carpenter variant. I think Niagara even mentioned 20CV going away.
• VG-10: Same as M390 in my opinion.
• S30V: This was killed by the proliferation of super steels like M390/CPM-20CV/CTS-204P and user demands for “the best”.
• CTS-BD1N/BD1Z: Not really used by any knife companies outside of Spyderco at this point; SOG used it in the past, but it doesn’t appear to be used much. Seems to have been replaced by 9Cr18MoV.
• S45VN: A combination of the proliferation of Magnacut and the bankruptcy of Crucible killed this one. Chis Reeve Knives, who I believe helped develop this steel, isn’t even using it on the Sebenza or Umnumzaan anymore. Buck might still use it.
• S110V: I don't think anyone outside of Spyderco used this steel in a production capacity. Another Magnacut casualty likely.

Most of them follow a common theme...

Realistically, VG-10 or 154CM is really all I need. I like how simple they are to sharpen.

[PaloArt]

I used to have Endura and Delica in VG10 (Gen4 both), currently only Cricket SE and Manbug Leaf in SE in my "collection". I used to have issues keeping my Delica and Endura sharp, both were purchased approximately around 17 years ago. I originally thought it was me and lack of my sharpening skills. My very good friend and knife collector, metallurgist (with university degree in it) who happens to be considered (at least by me) one of the most knowledgeable sharpeners in my vicinity took both of them and sharpened them on Wicked Edge with the same disturbing results. Long story short, he asked friend in Czech Technical University from faculty of mechanical engineering to test multiple blades, including my Delica and Endura and his VG10 pieces resulting in average 54-56 HRC. So I started to focus more on S30V and loved the heat treat more.

Moving fast forward, I purchased Manbug leaf after release and I sharpened newer batch of VG10 Spyderco knives recently and I felt like it holds edge way better, slightly bellow Spy27, which is my favorite steel now. I do know Sal refuted theory, there might inconsistent heat treat VG10 but perhaps there really might have been some issue on some batches? I do love VG10 now on my Manbug and Cricket and due to that I would like to rediscover it on larger blades, great steel and with more consistent (as I personally feel it) approach to Heat Treat makes it still very relevant blade steel for normal use. Same as OP, I do love mid range steels as those are easier to maintain for me compared to M4 (which I hated on my GB2) and K390 (which I love but without diamonds hard to maintain). Give me 14C28N, Spy27, VG10, CTS XHP or S30V\35V\45VN and I will be more than happy these days.

[Igi964]

Have this steel on multiple knives over more than 10 years and it never strike me as a very good one. Not very good edge holding and sharpening took way long for such a mediocre steel.
LC200N / Magnacut both are easier and keener to get very sharp. Edge holding on Lc is comparable and Magnacut is of course much better in that.

Not to mention tool steels. When You dont need corrosion resistance K390 has better toughness, much higher edge retention and still easier to get sharp than Vg10

[Evil D]

Because we are a society of people who don't want the base model of anything. Think of all the things we buy that have options, that follow the good/better/best model system. There are likely more people buying VG10 and S30V than we enthusiasts know about or want to acknowledge, but we're often surrounded by like-minded enthusiasts that also want the special models so until you step out of the echo chamber it's easy to assume these are "low end" options.

[horzuff]

For me and my understanding of the environment with Spyderco it usually comes down to:
1. It's not bad but common and "boring" (as in lacks novelty) and I usually look for some kind of "X factor" in my knife purchases, be it materials, locks or design characteristics.
2. There are steels that are objectively better in pretty much every aspect (maybe apart from sharpenability, though one could argue that PM processing can help there too plus with diamond abrasives it becomes a moot point) so why settle? Even among Japanese offerings, to avoid extra taxation, we have SG2 and SPG Strix
3. It can be annoying when a really interesting Seki model gets released and You're pretty certain K390 or SPY27 is coming but You have to wait for the "VG10 trial period" to pass.

So to sum things up it has very little to do with the actual properties of the steel itself but with the context in which it exists.

[TkoK83Spy]

Yep, it's really about what's the latest and greatest. What's the coolest thing on Facebook groups, YouTube, IG, etc...unfortunately.

My favorite is the people that preach on a certain steel being so amazing, yet they post photos/videos of their knives with super fancy scales, hardware and pocket clips of said knife...still with the factory edge. What do you REALLY know about that steel??

99 out of 100 times Spyderco could probably use VG10 and label it as something else and the end user would likely never know the difference. They just repeat what they see/hear about the steel. See it all the time!

[apollo]

People who critisize Vg10/S30V are extreme steel junkie fan boys/girls .

You can not believe a word they say as they lost common sense due to hype trains. Everytime Sal or Eric says anything about a new steel they act like there is white smoke and a new pope is ellected.

I can not be that way even if i wanted to.
So i ignore them most of the time and love to poke them once in awhile when i am not feeling well. (Sorry guys can not help it)

[kobold]

more like vg-10 fatigue. we saw it with d2 too
people like to see "progress", otherwise they feel stuck.