Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

Why BJJ and Karate Takes Years, and the Military Makes Fighters Faster



I like that this discussion is civil, and is not pushing one thing over another.

TBH, it's different types of training for different purposes. One doesn't necessarily translate to the other.

Many years ago (maybe 22+ years ago), I free-sparred with a younger guy who was a marine and a veteran, and got the better of him in that context. But I never went through the training he did to become a marine, much less ever experienced active duty. In a different context, in his field of expertise, I wouldn't have been able to keep up with him.

Jim

[Naperville]

Why BJJ and Karate Takes Years, and the Military Makes Fighters Faster



I like that this discussion is civil, and is not pushing one thing over another.

TBH, it's different types of training for different purposes. One doesn't necessarily translate to the other.

Many years ago (maybe 22+ years ago), I free-sparred with a younger guy who was a marine and a veteran, and got the better of him in that context. But I never went through the training he did to become a marine, much less ever experienced active duty. In a different context, in his field of expertise, I wouldn't have been able to keep up with him.

Jim

I agree, things do not translate.

If I could pause and catch my breath I'd be willing to go through US Marine Boot Camp and all the martial arts skills they would give me.

It's not likely they would let me on the base. 65? Nahhh that's a task for a 20 something.

But now, realistically the Marine sparring you could not and would not use 20% of his skills because they are lethal and would get him arrested. You know you are a fellow American too! US Soldiers that have taken the martial arts training are not martial artists in a true sense (opinion and speculation here) the military probably cuts through the junk and teaches for results. It could be a black belt in the USMC martial arts system is not polished, but lethal.

I'd luv to meet Michael Janich and you. Michael Janich schools students in techniques that use a knife that are not quite lethal...well only based on what I know. Those techniques should be part of every martial art starting the first day. I'd like to have those skills.

I am willing to bet there are at least a few thousand dojos that are capable of teaching the same skills as the US Military but they wait 3 years or never teach the methods. They are "soft" but the US Military is not soft.

With the Internet, YouTube and books you can find techniques to fill in all of the blanks, the missing techniques. There are no secrets anymore you just have to dig.

[James Y]

Why BJJ and Karate Takes Years, and the Military Makes Fighters Faster



I like that this discussion is civil, and is not pushing one thing over another.

TBH, it's different types of training for different purposes. One doesn't necessarily translate to the other.

Many years ago (maybe 22+ years ago), I free-sparred with a younger guy who was a marine and a veteran, and got the better of him in that context. But I never went through the training he did to become a marine, much less ever experienced active duty. In a different context, in his field of expertise, I wouldn't have been able to keep up with him.

Jim

I agree, things do not translate.

If I could pause and catch my breath I'd be willing to go through US Marine Boot Camp and all the martial arts skills they would give me.

It's not likely they would let me on the base. 65? Nahhh that's a task for a 20 something.

But now, realistically the Marine sparring you could not and would not use 20% of his skills because they are lethal and would get him arrested. You know you are a fellow American too! US Soldiers that have taken the martial arts training are not martial artists in a true sense (opinion and speculation here) the military probably cuts through the junk and teaches for results. It could be a black belt in the USMC martial arts system is not polished, but lethal.

I'd luv to meet Michael Janich and you. Michael Janich schools students in techniques that use a knife that are not quite lethal...well only based on what I know. Those techniques should be part of every martial art starting the first day. I'd like to have those skills.

I am willing to bet there are at least a few thousand dojos that are capable of teaching the same skills as the US Military but they wait 3 years or never teach the methods. They are "soft" but the US Military is not soft.

With the Internet, YouTube and books you can find techniques to fill in all of the blanks, the missing techniques. There are no secrets anymore you just have to dig.

I agree, the marine’s skillset was different. Also, the context of the sparring was different from what he trained for.

I’ve seen videos where professional MMA fighters easily handled Navy SEALS in cage matches. Well, of course. Those SEALS are not professional MMA fighters. They’ve been trained for a completely different purpose. Similarly, I highly doubt that those same MMA fighters who beat them could be thrown into a mission for the SEALS and be expected to do well at all.

I don’t spar anymore at all, and the last sparring of any type I ever did was rolling in BJJ, which I left in 2009. Before that, I hadn’t done any standup/strike sparring since maybe 2004 - 2006. I would never put myself in the same sentence as an authority like Michael Janich. All I am is a guy who loved and trained in martial arts for many years, and just happen to still be into it, although my viewpoints and emphasis have undergone complete revisions (many out of necessity) as I’m getting older (but still young at heart). This is why martial arts and practices that require practitioners to be at peak levels of athleticism to do no longer interest me personally. The body and mentality changes. I’m glad for the arts I trained in that required flexibility and athleticism, but some things are just no longer practical as you get older; and I like to emphasize simple things now that will always be accessible and practical, no matter how old I become. All of it is just personally modified versions of basic skills I’ve had for decades. Nothing that I do anymore relates to sparring or competition-type fighting. It’s strictly SD-related, and it doesn’t look impressive or “pretty.”

I do believe that in many cases, combat sports, as well as many martial arts practices, can be damaging to the body in the long-term. It may not show when one is young, but all too often it shows up later.

Here’s an interesting new video today:

“Do You Want to Get Better With a Knife? Do This!”



Jim

[James Y]

To expand on a point I made in my last post, the video below is an extreme example of a type of martial arts practice that absolutely requires elite athleticism at peak levels to accomplish, and only certain rare individuals can be on such a team:



That is the Kukkiwon (World Taekwondo Headquarters) demonstration team. The athleticism is elite level. But only certain people can ever do that, and for only a very brief time period in their lives. These look like teenagers, very early 20s at most. Like elite-level gymnastics, those skills will decline very early in life, probably before the age of 30.

If such skills remain one's entire focus in martial arts training, then martial arts have no practical value for real self-defense, or for personal development. IMO, an art is something that evolves over time with the artist. Right now in South Korea, it seems that the biggest emphasis is being placed on performing vertical side kicks and flying multiple spinning kicks. Whereas the 'original' Taekwondo (which was actually developed in the 1950s, and was a Korean variant of Japanese Shotokan Karate) was emphasized in practice as a 'killing art,' and had an equal mix of both hand techniques and strong, basic kicking techniques. That is why so many of the old-school Taekwondo masters were so tough and feared, especially many of the ones who served in South Korea's Tiger Division in the Vietnam war. Now Taekwondo is all fancy kicks and acrobatics, with severely limited hands that are only seen when they do their forms.

I'm only using TKD as an example. There are many martial art methods that are strictly athletics whose value declines fairly early in life, such as performance Wushu.

The really old, real "traditional" martial arts from many centuries ago, were actually much simpler, more rudimentary in appearance, but highly practical and effective. Because their lives depended on it. And they were able to be practiced over the long-term.

Jim

[Naperville]

I'd be willing to take a look at the professors knife training. Some or all of it may be good. But I'm not going to give him hundreds of dollars to see if the info is any good.

There are dozens of knowledgeable escrimadors and arnistadors that have huge followings and KNOW how to use edged weapons. It is all that they teach. They are experts.

You can get the materials for free.

GoTo em3video.com or google and look at the grandmasters names for arnis, escrima and kali.

Then go to YouTube and put in their names. Their students make videos. Watch the videos.

[James Y]

I'd be willing to take a look at the professors knife training. Some or all of it may be good. But I'm not going to give him hundreds of dollars to see if the info is any good.

There are dozens of knowledgeable escrimadors and arnistadors that have huge followings and KNOW how to use edged weapons. It is all that they teach. They are experts.

You can get the materials for free.

GoTo em3video.com or google and look at the grandmasters names for arnis, escrima and kali.

Then go to YouTube and put in their names. Their students make videos. Watch the videos.

I never pay anything for martial arts or training anymore, and I haven't since I trained in BJJ, which I discontinued almost 17 years ago. I simply train myself, for free.

I have no idea how much people pay for martial arts classes or special programs nowadays. I enjoy seeing what others do, but personally, at this point, I no longer feel the need to acquire more new skills, techniques, or styles.

For around 15 years now, I've been in a process of streamlining what I do, and jettisoning excess technical baggage. At some point, it became less about acquiring more, and more about chipping away at the nonessentials. I still get new perspectives on things; but for self-defense, it's far better to be intimately familiar with a relatively small number of high-percentage skills, than to have a large toolbox full of skills, techniques, strategies, etc., that one only partially knows, many of which require fine motor skills, and that one hasn't practiced enough to become so familiar with that they have become automatic actions and responses, and are adaptable under a variety of circumstances. IMO, of course.

Jim

[James Y]

How This Famous Internet Kung Fu Master Became a Joke in China Overnight



First thing: The guy who made the video says that “Kung Fu” (also spelled “Gongfu”) means “martial arts.” WRONG. “Kung Fu”/“Gongfu” means any skill developed through time and effort. You can be a great chef, and that means you have great cooking Kung Fu. A skillful Japanese Judo or Karate man has “good Kung Fu” in his respective martial art. It can be applied to any high-level skill, like painting, writing, etc. “Kung Fu” has become an alternate name to mean Chinese martial arts, but in reality, it’s incorrect. The real terms for Chinese martial arts are Wushu, or Wuyi. I’m very surprised that the uploader/narrator doesn’t know this, because by his accent, he very much sounds like a Chinese man. I know it, and I’m not even Chinese.

Another issue I have is the overuse of the title “master” among the younger generation, especially on YouTube. The guy only had 2 years’ experience in the Tongbei Quan style. How does that qualify anyone as a “Kung Fu master”? He obviously didn’t know how to slap in the way it was required for the slap fighting contest.

Another issue I have is that whoever said that slap fighting is safer than other fighting sports is stupid. Slap fighting is actually THE WORST “fighting sport” there is. It is a guaranteed path to brain damage, whether the participant is KO’d or not. It’ll be interesting to see how the participants in this “sport” are doing in the next 5, 10, 15 years from now.

The interesting thing is that the people with the most disdain for Chinese martial arts a seem to be the Chinese themselves. This is due to only a relatively small number of good practitioners in the majority of Chinese martial arts; and usually the most prominent are not among the best, as has always been the case. People have forgotten that the first (and possibly only) Chinese martial art that had practitioners challenge and even defeat some professional Muay Thai fighters, in Thailand, back in the 1970s were Choy Lee Fut fighters (to be fair, some also lost to the Thais). And that isn’t counting one of my seniors in Choy Lee Fut, who KO’d a Muay Thai fighter in a match in the mid-‘70s in L.A.

You cannot paint all “Kung Fu” (Chinese martial arts) practitioners as frauds, or dancers, or whatever, because someone did poorly in some contest. I had seen some videos that the young Tongbei practitioner (again, who had only been training it since either 2023 (or possibly 2022), had posted showing his training in China that preceded his participation in this slap,fighting event, and he appeared very arrogant. So IMO, maybe he deserved a “wake-up call,” ironically by being KO’d by the Kazakh guy.

Jim

[Iole]

Found a old book of mine from an elite one on Bruce's level.

[James Y]

Found a old book of mine from an elite one on Bruce's level.

Thank you for sharing! I have that same book, as well as Inosanto's first Jeet Kune Do book. IIRC, I bought them way back in 1981 or so ... whenever it was they were released.

Jim

[James Y]

"Stop an Attacker Fast!"



I call this kick a forward oblique kick. IMO, it's one of the best kicks for practical street self-defense, if it comes down to that. It can also be done to the side or back of the knee, the latter if you're holding them from behind and need to bring them down. It can also be driven into the shinbone, using the inside edge of your shoe. The forward oblique kick is often even more effective when you're holding, pulling, blocking, or striking the opponent with your hand(s), something I never see anybody outside of traditional Chinese martial arts do. In traditional Chinese martial arts, footwork, leg techniques (including kicks) are most often used in conjunction with your hands. And in CMA styles, the forward oblique is one of the most basic kicks. It's an important basic technique for a reason.

I've seen some very old-style Okinawan Karate practitioners who do the oblique kick, but I've never seen it in the "Mainland" Japanese Karate systems, which are 20th-century adaptations of Okinawan Karate, which in turn was adapted from Southern Chinese martial arts.

I personally don't emphasize much kicking at all anymore. Ironic, because for most of my life, I was known by people I trained with for the variety of kicks (especially high kicks) that I could do, and used in competitions. Even though I always liked using hands as much, if not more. Nowadays, I only practice the few kicks (around 3 or 4) that I would actually potentially use in an actual self-defense situation, and the forward oblique is extremely practical.

The only other kicks I practice anymore are the low side and back kick, and the low front snap kick. And a simple, basic standing foot sweep. That's it. I don't practice kneeing, because IMO, it's too easy to get taken down when kneeing someone. In that range, I prefer training with spike elbows and thumbs to the eyes. I only spend about 10% at most of my actual practice time on kicks. Empty-hand striking-wise, I emphasize mostly on open hands, elbows, and forearm blows.

Jim

[Michael Janich]

Michael Janich schools students in techniques that use a knife that are not quite lethal...well only based on what I know. Those techniques should be part of every martial art starting the first day. I'd like to have those skills.

For the record, my approach to knife tactics is based on the context of modern self-defense. A knife is a lethal weapon, so using it in self-defense is, by definition, an application of lethal force. That is only justified when you are in fear for your life, in fear of suffering grievous bodily injury, or are protecting another innocent party from that same level of threat. Your goal in applying that force, both practically and legally, is to stop the threat. The more quickly and decisively you can do that, the better.

In the traditional Filipino martial arts, they used the concept of "defanging the snake"--cutting or striking the attacking limb--to disarm the assailant. With a knife, this is best achieved by cutting the flexor muscles or flexor tendons in the inner wrist and forearm. Most traditional FMA systems were battlefield focused or structured to emphasize lethality. As such, once the attacker is disarmed, they practice follow-up cuts and thrusts to lethal, finishing targets. From a self-defense perspective, once the attacker is disarmed, he no longer poses a lethal threat--unless there is a severe disparity of size, strength, or numbers. If he is no longer a lethal threat, you are not justified in continuing to use lethal force against him. If you do, in the eyes of the law, you become the aggressor.

MBC takes the concept of "defanging the snake" and applies it beyond the attacker's grip on the weapon. Through an in-depth understanding of human anatomy, we focus on stopping the limbs to decisively stop the attacker. We also practice "putting on the brakes" if we eliminate the lethal threat early in our defense. In my opinion, this approach is not only much more legally defensible that traditional FMA or military combative methods, it also works with small, legal-to-carry knives. MBC is not "less lethal." It is "more responsible."

Stay safe,

Mike

[Naperville]

Michael Janich schools students in techniques that use a knife that are not quite lethal...well only based on what I know. Those techniques should be part of every martial art starting the first day. I'd like to have those skills.

For the record, my approach to knife tactics is based on the context of modern self-defense. A knife is a lethal weapon, so using it in self-defense is, by definition, an application of lethal force. That is only justified when you are in fear for your life, in fear of suffering grievous bodily injury, or are protecting another innocent party from that same level of threat. Your goal in applying that force, both practically and legally, is to stop the threat. The more quickly and decisively you can do that, the better.

In the traditional Filipino martial arts, they used the concept of "defanging the snake"--cutting or striking the attacking limb--to disarm the assailant. With a knife, this is best achieved by cutting the flexor muscles or flexor tendons in the inner wrist and forearm. Most traditional FMA systems were battlefield focused or structured to emphasize lethality. As such, once the attacker is disarmed, they practice follow-up cuts and thrusts to lethal, finishing targets. From a self-defense perspective, once the attacker is disarmed, he no longer poses a lethal threat--unless there is a severe disparity of size, strength, or numbers. If he is no longer a lethal threat, you are not justified in continuing to use lethal force against him. If you do, in the eyes of the law, you become the aggressor.

MBC takes the concept of "defanging the snake" and applies it beyond the attacker's grip on the weapon. Through an in-depth understanding of human anatomy, we focus on stopping the limbs to decisively stop the attacker. We also practice "putting on the brakes" if we eliminate the lethal threat early in our defense. In my opinion, this approach is not only much more legally defensible that traditional FMA or military combative methods, it also works with small, legal-to-carry knives. MBC is not "less lethal." It is "more responsible."

Stay safe,

Mike

Mr. Janich do you have anyone teaching MBC in Lexington, Kentucky? I'd gladly study MBC 2 to 3 days per week.

[Michael Janich]

Mr. Janich do you have anyone teaching MBC in Lexington, Kentucky? I'd gladly study MBC 2 to 3 days per week.

Dear Naperville:

Unfortunately, I don't have any authorized instructors in your area. Your best bet might be Certified Instructor Eric Kaltenborn. He lives in Columbus, OH, but travels down to Sevierville, TN pretty frequently. You might be able to coordinate some training. His contact info can be found on the MBC Instructor Locator: https://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/mb ... or-locator.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Naperville]

Mr. Janich do you have anyone teaching MBC in Lexington, Kentucky? I'd gladly study MBC 2 to 3 days per week.

Dear Naperville:

Unfortunately, I don't have any authorized instructors in your area. Your best bet might be Certified Instructor Eric Kaltenborn. He lives in Columbus, OH, but travels down to Sevierville, TN pretty frequently. You might be able to coordinate some training. His contact info can be found on the MBC Instructor Locator: https://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/mb ... or-locator.

Stay safe,

Mike

I'll try and meet in Sevierville, TN, in 2026. Sounds like a good time.

[Naperville]

Found a old book of mine from an elite one on Bruce's level.

I like the premise, the title of the book, and it remains an exciting development in martial arts training decades later.

It seems very common now but it wasn't always that way.

EDIT: Bought a copy of the book!

[James Y]

Possible UK Force Multiplier



Jim

[Naperville]

Possible UK Force Multiplier



Jim

I might have to buy one of those auto assist devices anyway. The 4runner that I have is not supposed to have a lift kit on it, but it is about 2 inches too high. I can get in okay but getting out on ice is kind of dangerous.

I was thinking of those Mice sticky pads! You know them. You get 6 sticky pags in a small box and place them around to catch Mice. Carry 2 in your pocket and at the first sign of trouble put one in each hand, and slap the perp hard in the head with the sticky pads!!!! These are very sticky. Very disorienting. Get 2 of these stuck on your face or over your eyes and you cannot see.

Sure beats fighting.

[James Y]

Possible UK Force Multiplier



Jim

I might have to buy one of those auto assist devices anyway. The 4runner that I have is not supposed to have a lift kit on it, but it is about 2 inches too high. I can get in okay but getting out on ice is kind of dangerous.

I was thinking of those Mice sticky pads! You know them. You get 6 sticky pags in a small box and place them around to catch Mice. Carry 2 in your pocket and at the first sign of trouble put one in each hand, and slap the perp hard in the head with the sticky pads!!!! These are very sticky. Very disorienting. Get 2 of these stuck on your face or over your eyes and you cannot see.

Sure beats fighting.

Those sticky pads are a unique idea that I've never heard before. Great idea.

Another guy had recommended carrying one of those inexpensive hard rubber door stops, as a force multiplier for hammer fist strikes in self-defense.

Jim

[Naperville]

Possible UK Force Multiplier



Jim

I might have to buy one of those auto assist devices anyway. The 4runner that I have is not supposed to have a lift kit on it, but it is about 2 inches too high. I can get in okay but getting out on ice is kind of dangerous.

I was thinking of those Mice sticky pads! You know them. You get 6 sticky pags in a small box and place them around to catch Mice. Carry 2 in your pocket and at the first sign of trouble put one in each hand, and slap the perp hard in the head with the sticky pads!!!! These are very sticky. Very disorienting. Get 2 of these stuck on your face or over your eyes and you cannot see.

Sure beats fighting.

Those sticky pads are a unique idea that I've never heard before. Great idea.

Another guy had recommended carrying one of those inexpensive hard rubber door stops, as a force multiplier for hammer fist strikes in self-defense.

Jim

I am going out right now and will go to TARGET.

I'll look at the door stops, and the auto assist device.

When I get back I'll order the massage stick. I like that one that he had that was very blunt.

[Jimandchris2]

Michael Janich schools students in techniques that use a knife that are not quite lethal...well only based on what I know. Those techniques should be part of every martial art starting the first day. I'd like to have those skills.

For the record, my approach to knife tactics is based on the context of modern self-defense. A knife is a lethal weapon, so using it in self-defense is, by definition, an application of lethal force. That is only justified when you are in fear for your life, in fear of suffering grievous bodily injury, or are protecting another innocent party from that same level of threat. Your goal in applying that force, both practically and legally, is to stop the threat. The more quickly and decisively you can do that, the better.

In the traditional Filipino martial arts, they used the concept of "defanging the snake"--cutting or striking the attacking limb--to disarm the assailant. With a knife, this is best achieved by cutting the flexor muscles or flexor tendons in the inner wrist and forearm. Most traditional FMA systems were battlefield focused or structured to emphasize lethality. As such, once the attacker is disarmed, they practice follow-up cuts and thrusts to lethal, finishing targets. From a self-defense perspective, once the attacker is disarmed, he no longer poses a lethal threat--unless there is a severe disparity of size, strength, or numbers. If he is no longer a lethal threat, you are not justified in continuing to use lethal force against him. If you do, in the eyes of the law, you become the aggressor.

MBC takes the concept of "defanging the snake" and applies it beyond the attacker's grip on the weapon. Through an in-depth understanding of human anatomy, we focus on stopping the limbs to decisively stop the attacker. We also practice "putting on the brakes" if we eliminate the lethal threat early in our defense. In my opinion, this approach is not only much more legally defensible that traditional FMA or military combative methods, it also works with small, legal-to-carry knives. MBC is not "less lethal." It is "more responsible."

Stay safe,

Mike

Sir,
Thank you for the calling of your profession and coagulations on your success. I was made aware of your teaching in 2011 in the US Army and combative training when I ask our instructors, as I'm a combat nurse, "Hand to hand combat?!? Where the **** is my knife?!?" The Master Sergeant said, "Go find Janich on Youtube!" You've saved lives and we're grateful.