Prices OMG Seriously?

[ugaarguy]

Today I was looking at the Hogue Mysto Fire / Wood / Water variants with Richlite handles and 3.4" MagnaCut blades with their ABLE lock (Axis lock clone). They're visually striking and pretty appealing at $162-$170. That lead me to comparing Spyderco and some competitors.

Kershaw just brought back their "Bareknuckle" design changing it to their DuraLock Axis lock clone and changing the 3.5" blade's steel to MagnaCut. It has aluminum handles with inset steel liners for $180 street price. Their Belair XL (also 3.5" MagnaCut blade with DuraLock, but G10 scales) has crept up to $180 street price when not on special.

The Manix 2 Salt with 3.37" MagnaCut blade, heavily machined G10 scales, skeletonized full steel liners (and all the corrosion resistance enhanced internals) is bigger overall, and very competitive at $181.


Then PM2 Lightweight in the reveal made me look at some plastic handle competitors.

I have a Benchmade Griptilian with 440C blade that I bought about 20 years ago (I'm getting old) at the BX on Mountain Home AFB, ID. The Griptilian with 3.45" S30V blade, OG Axis lock, and plastic handles is now coming in at $175 MAP. It's still made in USA at least.

I also have a Demko AD20.5, which only has a 3" blade in the "Sharksfoot" shape, but it's nearly identical in overall closed size to my Manix 2 LW. For 3" or 3.2" AUS10 blade, Demko's Shark lock, and plastic scales over lightly skeletonized steel liners street price is still $150; and it's made in Taiwan.

The Manix 2 LW has the least steel internals of this group, but at $144 MAP for the SPY27 blade variant it's pretty competitive.


You also have to look at the locks. The CBBL, Axis & clones, and the Shark Lock, all have comparatively simple geometries. The Compression lock is more complex coming in from the side and wedging in between the blade tang and stop pin. And let's not forget that Demko and Kershaw have to use bearings to get their pivots run as smoothly as Spyderco does with their bushing pivot and PB washers combo.

And as for that PM2 LW with BD1N blade? Well, it might by the right choice for some end users. BD1N doesn't need diamond abrasives so the edge can be touched up on a ceramic rod, or even the bottom of a coffee mug in a pinch. The flow through construction should mitigate the need to disassemble the knife to get debris out. If it gets fouled up badly enough to require disassembly in the field, it's going to be simpler, and there's danger of a coil spring lunching itself out of the knife.

I've been critical of Spyderco's pricing in the past, but I'm learning to articulate the refinements in their designs that show up in hand and can't be seen on a spec sheet.

[vivi]

I'd rather pay $200 for a US made knife than $60 for a chinese knife made from the same materials personally.

I totally agree . I buy some china knives (for the unique designs to play with) but my advice to people new to the hobby or just looking for a decent user has always been : If it is less than $100 it probably isn't a very good knife . And I was saying that eight years ago and more . More like $150 now . There certainly are the exceptions , Buck 110 or 112 but still .

"Real Tools" cost REAL money .

I can't think of a statement made on this forum I disagree more strongly with.

I can fill any cutting tool need with a quality item not made in china for under $100. $150 or less would be too easy.

Everything from multitools, choppers, axes, machetes, chef knives, pocket knives, bushcraft knives, complete sharpening set, scissors, etc.

[Snacktime]

So this drop we finally get the budget PM2 and see the limit of what people will pay for super steel. Both are very nitch items from my perspective.

People can argue over cost but the industry is setting the minimum standard much higher. You can get a deep carry pocket clip on a Buck 110, T8 screws are new standard and D2/14C28N are budget steel. Doesn't matter who, what or where you have to hit the minimum these days to be viewed as competitive.

[Jefferson444]

First post so let me get this out of the way:

I love these knives. I’ve been buying/collecting for a few years and Spyderco is my primary brand by far. The ergonomics really work for me on most models and the variety of configurations really allows the customer to find what works. For me, my primary carry is a K390 Endura SE.

As to my purchasing habits and the price increase:

I own about 25(?) Spydercos with 8-9 of those coming in the last year. Sources vary. Some were bought from a local brick and mortar shop, some online at full price, some discounted. I buy Seki and Golden mostly, but recent came to appreciate the Sage LW in Spy27, leading me to my point.

Between the clamping down of the ‘loyalty programs’ and the price increase, a Sage 5 Salt is ~$60 more than it was last summer.

I’m not bitter and I do not blame Spyderco or anyone affiliated. Businesses have to do what it takes to survive. They offer a unique product and I’ll continue to buy them, but…

Like others have mentioned, I have other hobbies as well (bass guitars, in my case). They, too, may have price increases in the near future but right now my preferred brands are holding.

From a strictly numbers perspective, my knife hobby last year would have cost me ~$350-400 more if I’d bought those knives this year.

I won’t be buying a small Sebenza in lieu of a Rex 121 Sage, but we’re now talking used G&L money and that creates a conundrum that didn’t exist 12 months ago.

I appreciate everything Spyderco has done for the industry and customer base. I hold no ill will over the price increase. I’ll continue to buy them but now that the pricing has started to creep into other areas of interest, I’m afraid last year may have been my peak.

[Wartstein]

...You can get a deep carry pocket clip on a Buck 110....

Sidenote and purely personal preference:
But that Spydercos pocket clips are almost always NOT deep carry is a huge plus for me... right behind NO sharpening notch!

[sal]

Hi Jefferson,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Soulrack]

I'm hoping that REX 121 is a special cost case. In the Reveal the Sage 6 looked like a must buy. The Sage 5 is far superior to the Para 3 IMO. But $427.50 on top of the small fortune that I just spent on the Paramiltary 2 REX 121 exclusives, makes it a "no" for me but if the design was what the Paramilitary 2's design is to me, I'd pay it twice for 2. I love Spyderco and what they do. Keep doing it even if I can't afford it. It's the right way to proceed.

[Jefferson444]

I'm hoping that REX 121 is a special cost case. In the Reveal the Sage 6 looked like a must buy. The Sage 5 is far superior to the Para 3 IMO. But $427.50 on top of the small fortune that I just spent on the Paramiltary 2 REX 121 exclusives, makes it a "no" for me but if the design was what the Paramilitary 2's design is to me, I'd pay it twice for 2. I love Spyderco and what they do. Keep doing it even if I can't afford it. It's the right way to proceed.

I have to agree in the Sage 5 vs Para 3. I love both but the Sage was eye opening in a way I didn't expect. I won’t be buying the Rex 121 version but the Salt and a G10 are on the list.

[BeggarSo]

I'm hoping that REX 121 is a special cost case. In the Reveal the Sage 6 looked like a must buy. The Sage 5 is far superior to the Para 3 IMO. But $427.50 on top of the small fortune that I just spent on the Paramiltary 2 REX 121 exclusives, makes it a "no" for me but if the design was what the Paramilitary 2's design is to me, I'd pay it twice for 2. I love Spyderco and what they do. Keep doing it even if I can't afford it. It's the right way to proceed.

I feel ya brother in the Spyder, one of the things that got me to take the plunge and preorder is that reveals dont always mean right now, in my experience they dont, so this gives me time to save plus another 30 days on the credit card or so before payoff so immenantly doable, even after the CS drop. I mean after all even a short hop to the grocery store is 2 to $300 easy and all ya have to show for it is poop.

Just gotta mind the diet a bit more for a few weeks, heck could stand to loose some LBS anyway.

Getting some more REX 121 is a good motivation.

[Wowbagger]

....
...my advice to people new to the hobby or just looking for a decent user has always been : If it is less than $100 it probably isn't a very good knife . And I was saying that eight years ago and more . More like $150 now ...

Especially if we take your $150 limit and looking at US prices this would mean excluding Endura, Delica, Tenacious, Pac Salt,.... for "decent users"?
If so, I have to disagree...

Seeeee Spydercos ARE a good value ! .

[Wowbagger]

Sal with prices of spydies going up each year could you find it in your possibilities to cqi your hardware without raising prices for it? Because i feel really bad i need to say this your screws are the weakest spot in any spydie and in comparison off all the brands i ever took apart spydies are the only one i am scared to put a screwdriver in because if someone on your factory floor even puts a micro drop of loctide to much on they are like butter its kinda depressing. So i do not find them worthy of the quality you are trying to make let alone for the current prices inflation has given.

Hi Apollo,

This is next on Eric's list. Thanx for the suggestion.

sal

Tip :
Get the best Torx bits Wiha or Wera.
Also they have Torxs bits with shorter areas where the Torx grooves are cut ; these twist less easily at the tip .
Get separate bits rather than full length dedicated drivers . If a screw is not coming loose (very rare I find and I have been doing a ton of blade swapping and messing with these screws the last year or so) . . . if a screw is not coming loose hold the bit with some pliers and whamp it with a hammer . This compresses the thread locker goop and helps get them loose .

PERSONALLY I THINK THE FOLLOWING IS WHERE PEOPLE GET IN TROUBLE :
Use the correct size . Make a habit of starting with bits that are too large and work your way down until one fits ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREW SOCKET. (some seem like they fit but are too big) mostly this keeps from using bits that are too small if you start large and work down.
THEN ; AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT :
press down HARD on the Torx screw driver , against a hard surface (table top ; not just your hand) and keep the bit square to the side of the knife (coaxial to the screw) .

Whamping the bit in the screw is effective and quicker than heat and I swear I read in the forums that is what they do at the factory when disassembling these knives .

I have bought spare screws on the big river and have bags of spares around but I pretty much only use them for my wild handle scale swaps .

Like this :
Brad Zinker Urban Trapper ; took off G-10 super thin scales ; put on a Kray Ex handle from a Cold Steel Kitchen Classic cut and planed to fit the Trapper . One of my all time favorite users by the way .

[see actual images in following posts ]

The thread I copied these images from was titled something about what is your near perfect knife ?
Here is another photo right next to the Urban Trapper . I think you will like it :

[Wowbagger]

OK looks like the soft wear here wants to "play putza" as my Mom would call it so . . .
time to F around I guess .
Here is the modded handle trapper

[Wowbagger]

the top view.
As you can see it took some long screws

[Wowbagger]

I can't think of a statement made on this forum I disagree more strongly with.

I felt that way about your serrated edge posts back in the day but let it go.

[vivi]

I can't think of a statement made on this forum I disagree more strongly with.

I felt that way about your serrated edge posts back in the day but let it go.

well I'd be more than happy to have you reply to the se vs pe thread if that's how you feel. contrary opinions are encouraged.

viewtopic.php?t=99036

which type of cutting tool can you not find a quality example of for $150 or less?

[Dnwrghtsr]

I have 10 Spyderco’s I have had many many more. At a local gun shop I can buy like new Sig 9mm police trade ins for $249. “ Guns or knives Butch “ when knife prices and gun prices are nearly the same I’ll buy a gun.

[cabfrank]

Jefferson, welcome, and great first posts.

[sal]

I have 10 Spyderco’s I have had many many more. At a local gun shop I can buy like new Sig 9mm police trade ins for $249. “ Guns or knives Butch “ when knife prices and gun prices are nearly the same I’ll buy a gun.

I find that when I open a box with a 9mm, folks don't appreciate the noise. I guess I could get a silencer?

sal

[SG89]

[ChrisinHove]