Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[Naperville]

Thabk you, Jim. This is very good advice and I can feel your sincerity. That means so much to me. Both you and Naperville actually care, unlike alot of people.

I think there are good people everywhere, they are just mixed in with people burdened with their lives, their jobs, their families.

[James Y]

"You Must Be Violent"

Of course, he's speaking in the context of, if your life depends upon it in a physical self-defense situation.



Jim

[vivi]

a little off topic but check out what I found while cleaning out my parents attic:



brings back memories!

So whats the answer? The one guy says be trained to not be an arrogant ego tough guy and not be a passive fear guy, but the other guy rightly warns about the danger of retaliation from the allies of the enemy, and from the law who may not agree that it was defense. Whats the cure?

.

Real-life self-defense is NOT always about standing up for yourself and being a man. That is the rite of manhood that should have been a part of every boy's upbringing; but unfortunately, it's not, especially nowadays.

Real-life self-defense is about surviving, avoidance of danger whenever possible, and knowing when to pick your battles. Because hardened street criminals and other sociopathic predators do not play by the rules.

Great post.

I've been training martial arts since the late 80's, and spend 10+ hours doing them for exercise every week. Got my CCW on me wherever I legally can. Taller and stronger than 99% of folks, etc.

I still make sure to practice the art of runjitsu every week. I brush off verbal insults and aggressive drivers and leave the situation when I can. Practice de-escalation, avoiding being in sketchy areas to begin with,being selective where I go after dark etc.

Doesn't matter how hard you can punch or how much you can bench on the streets. It's not the same as a 1 vs 1 boxing match. In the past I had worked as a bouncer for many years. Sometimes I'd kick out a knucklehead and he'd be back later that night with a knife or a gun.

practicing martial arts is a great way to stay in shape and everyone should know how to defend themselves, but outside of controlled situations in the gym, combat should be avoided whenever possible. even if you win, chances are low you'll come out completely unscatched, not to mention the possible legal ramifications.

[James Y]

a little off topic but check out what I found while cleaning out my parents attic:



brings back memories!

So whats the answer? The one guy says be trained to not be an arrogant ego tough guy and not be a passive fear guy, but the other guy rightly warns about the danger of retaliation from the allies of the enemy, and from the law who may not agree that it was defense. Whats the cure?

.

Real-life self-defense is NOT always about standing up for yourself and being a man. That is the rite of manhood that should have been a part of every boy's upbringing; but unfortunately, it's not, especially nowadays.

Real-life self-defense is about surviving, avoidance of danger whenever possible, and knowing when to pick your battles. Because hardened street criminals and other sociopathic predators do not play by the rules.

Great post.

I've been training martial arts since the late 80's, and spend 10+ hours doing them for exercise every week. Got my CCW on me wherever I legally can. Taller and stronger than 99% of folks, etc.

I still make sure to practice the art of runjitsu every week. I brush off verbal insults and aggressive drivers and leave the situation when I can. Practice de-escalation, avoiding being in sketchy areas to begin with,being selective where I go after dark etc.

Doesn't matter how hard you can punch or how much you can bench on the streets. It's not the same as a 1 vs 1 boxing match. In the past I had worked as a bouncer for many years. Sometimes I'd kick out a knucklehead and he'd be back later that night with a knife or a gun.

practicing martial arts is a great way to stay in shape and everyone should know how to defend themselves, but outside of controlled situations in the gym, combat should be avoided whenever possible. even if you win, chances are low you'll come out completely unscatched, not to mention the possible legal ramifications.

Very cool find, vivi!

Thank you for sharing that pic, and also for sharing your experiences and valuable insight.

Jim

[Naperville]

a little off topic but check out what I found while cleaning out my parents attic:



brings back memories!

So whats the answer? The one guy says be trained to not be an arrogant ego tough guy and not be a passive fear guy, but the other guy rightly warns about the danger of retaliation from the allies of the enemy, and from the law who may not agree that it was defense. Whats the cure?

.

Real-life self-defense is NOT always about standing up for yourself and being a man. That is the rite of manhood that should have been a part of every boy's upbringing; but unfortunately, it's not, especially nowadays.

Real-life self-defense is about surviving, avoidance of danger whenever possible, and knowing when to pick your battles. Because hardened street criminals and other sociopathic predators do not play by the rules.

Great post.

I've been training martial arts since the late 80's, and spend 10+ hours doing them for exercise every week. Got my CCW on me wherever I legally can. Taller and stronger than 99% of folks, etc.

I still make sure to practice the art of runjitsu every week. I brush off verbal insults and aggressive drivers and leave the situation when I can. Practice de-escalation, avoiding being in sketchy areas to begin with,being selective where I go after dark etc.

Doesn't matter how hard you can punch or how much you can bench on the streets. It's not the same as a 1 vs 1 boxing match. In the past I had worked as a bouncer for many years. Sometimes I'd kick out a knucklehead and he'd be back later that night with a knife or a gun.

practicing martial arts is a great way to stay in shape and everyone should know how to defend themselves, but outside of controlled situations in the gym, combat should be avoided whenever possible. even if you win, chances are low you'll come out completely unscatched, not to mention the possible legal ramifications.

Very nice @vivi

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Jim After watching some of these videos and reading your posts I am seriously thinking of taking some classes.

Someone I know offered to show me some moves but the classes have mats and safety on site.

I do not want to break or sprain something, though.

Also, can I do a martial art without getting into chi, qi, kundalini stuff?

[James Y]

Jim After watching some of these videos and reading your posts I am seriously thinking of taking some classes.

Someone I know offered to show me some moves but the classes have mats and safety on site.

I do not want to break or sprain something, though.

Also, can I do a martial art without getting into chi, qi, kundalini stuff?

I understand that you don't want to sprain or break anything. Who does? Personally, I've never broken a bone (that I was aware of), but getting bruises and other occasional injuries is a normal part of training in martial arts; at least in real martial arts. When I say "real," I mean "martial," which means a warring, or warlike art. That is its nature.

Like Professor David said in that video, there is no effortless self-defense. If you're so afraid of experiencing pain or minor injuries once in a while, even if someone shows you some moves, they probably won't be of any use to you if you do not have the ability to bring out that fighting spirit within yourself, if and when it becomes absolutely necessary. Being timid only makes you an easier and more desirable target. I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm simply being real here.

As far as ki/qi/chi goes, if you didn't already have it, you would be dead. Qi is simply the life force, or life energy that flows in your body. It's not some mystical "woo-woo" thing. Acupuncture works because it helps to restore the proper flow of qi. Why be afraid of something that's an integral part of life?

As far as kundalini, that's something that would have to be specifically trained. I don't know much about that, but it's probably more to do with yogic practices than martial arts.

Some martial arts talk more about ki/qi/chi than others. Tai Chi (AKA Taiji), Xingyi, Bagua, Yiquan, Aikido, Aikijutsu ((AKA Aiki-Jujutsu), etc. By the way, the "chi" in the name "Tai Chi" is a different word character from chi/qi/ki. It's actually pronounced "Taiji," which means "Grand Ultimate."

If you don't want to learn about qi, then don't learn Qigong, which isn't really a martial art in itself, but forms of qigong practices are incorporated into various martial arts. If you're afraid of such practices, simply ask a prospective teacher if that's something they teach, and that you don't want to learn it. Although some type of properly-taught Qigong for health purposes might be good for you.

Jim

[James Y]

If He Had Listened to Her, He Would Still Be Alive



This is 100% NOT martial arts-related, but is something that is extremely important to be aware of. If you ever hear gunshots, DO NOT stick your head up or out to try to see what's going on. Sticking one's head up over a wall to try to see who's firing a gun was extremely stupid of this man. His wife or girlfriend had pleaded with him to get down; now she is the one who is forced to live on with the horrific consequences of his stupidity.

There are times when putting your selfish pride and stubbornness aside, and just listening to reason is the wisest thing you can do.

So while this is definitely NOT martial arts-related, it IS self-defense-related. The number one skill in self-defense is the avoidance of dangerous situations, whenever possible, and NOT putting yourself INTO them out of stubbornness and/or curiosity.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Jim how easy or hard is it realistically for a person armed with a lockblade knife to stop a mass shooter armed with a long gun?

[James Y]

Jim how easy or hard is it realistically for a person armed with a lockblade knife to stop a mass shooter armed with a long gun?

SEF, I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not. I have no idea. I'm not qualified to answer that, and I'm not sure anybody is.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Jim how easy or hard is it realistically for a person armed with a lockblade knife to stop a mass shooter armed with a long gun?

SEF, I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not. I have no idea. I'm not qualified to answer that, and I'm not sure anybody is.

Jim

The reason I ask is because I saw a news article about this horrible thing happening and I wanted to know how feasible it would be for a person to disarm and neutralize a mass shooter. It all depends on variables such as the level or lack of training, the environment, the speed of reaction of both, and whether or not the gunman was armored.

[James Y]

Jim how easy or hard is it realistically for a person armed with a lockblade knife to stop a mass shooter armed with a long gun?

SEF, I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not. I have no idea. I'm not qualified to answer that, and I'm not sure anybody is.

Jim

The reason I ask is because I saw a news article about this horrible thing happening and I wanted to know how feasible it would be for a person to disarm and neutralize a mass shooter. It all depends on variables such as the level or lack of training, the environment, the speed of reaction of both, and whether or not the gunman was armored.

I think you've answered your own question.

Jim

[James Y]

"My Lineage is the Only True One!"




Warning: Long rant below that nobody is going to read, but I needed to vent, anyway.

This type of mindset he's talking about is exactly why, outside of what I post in this thread, I do not discuss martial arts with other people, and haven't for many years. In fact, I actually prefer people to not know, and to assume that I don't have any knowledge of martial arts at all.

This not only applies to Chinese systems. I've seen feuding Korean martial arts teachers try to sabotage each other.

But in Chinese martial arts it's REALLY bad ... it's the worst. That is why "Kung Fu" (which really does not mean "Chinese martial arts," but for simplicity's sake we'll call them TCMA, Traditional Chinese Martial Arts) systems as a group have lagged far behind other categories of martial arts.

The amount of infighting (especially among practitioners within the same systems but different lineages, and often even within the same lineages) can be every bit as bad as the political divide in the US is today. It's actually embarrassing. A bunch of narcissistic idiots arguing over things that NOBODY outside of their tiny bubbles gives a crap about.

As far as the TCMA training I've had: Yes, I can trace the two different Northern Praying Mantis (Tanglang Quan) lineages I trained in. I can also trace my Choy Lee Fut lineage way back to the founder, Chan Heung. So what? Literally NO martial art is practiced today the way they were practiced in the 1800s, when Choy Lee Fut was first named and systematized from combining older systems; or like in the 1600s, when Tanglang Quan was created, by blending aspects of 17 pre-existing systems to create a new style of martial art.

Do you see a pattern here? "Mixed Martial Arts" is not some new concept that started with Bruce Lee, or the Gracies/UFC. EVERY martial art in existence today was originally a mixed martial art, that combined what the founders considered the best skill sets of pre-existing systems. There are no "pure" martial arts systems.

For one example: When Kano developed Judo, it was a modernized form of what Kano considered the best of selected skills from various traditional Jujutsu styles, with updated and improved training methods. Judo was originally called "Kano's Jiu-Jitsu," or "Jiudo" in written English, before simply being written as "Judo." Judo was not some singular system that was created in a vacuum out of nothing. And Judo today is not being taught and trained the way that Kano taught it. The same is true of every other martial art.

One of the things I love about the Choy Lee Fut I trained in was that we sparred and tested ourselves against martial artists from different systems in competitions, as well as in private sparring sessions. Which is something that few TCMA practitioners seem to do. My Choy Lee Fut sifu made it to the finals at the Ed Parker Internationals in Long Beach (the west coast's most prestigious tournament at the time) in the late '60s or beginning of the '70s, during the heyday of the "Blood and Guts era" of American tournament Karate, when fighters like Joe Lewis, Chuck Norris, Skipper Mullins, Jim Harrison, Steve Sanders-Muhammad, Bob Wall, the Urquidez brothers, etc., were actively competing. Many of my sifu's students of the same time period also competed in the same open Karate tournaments, usually the only "Kung Fu" practitioners who entered the fighting divisions, instead of only the forms divisions.

And later, around the mid-'70s, two of my sifu's students were among a few American martial artists who answered the challenge of a group of professional Muay Thai fighters from Thailand, who came to L.A to challenge local martial artists to fight in the ring. One student (a lightweight) won his match via KO with an uppercut, while the other student, a heavyweight, was unable to answer the bell for the 2nd or 3rd round. But at least they both stepped up, and one had a victory. I actually saw the old films that my sifu had. He emphasized that his students, including the group I belonged to, spar with and enter competitions against black belt-level fighters from other schools and systems.

The point of this rambling post being that, far more important than lineage, or style, or whatever BS that martial artists like to obsess over that nobody else cares about, is what are the skill levels YOU'VE achieved? What do YOU bring to the table, without hiding behind lineages, and long-dead martial artists who may have proved themselves decades or centuries ago?

It's not only TCMA practitioners, and practitioners of other kinds of "traditional" martial arts. Many recreational practitioners (or non-practitioner fans) of modern MMA talk as if they themselves are at the same level as professional MMA fighters. They are, in effect, doing the exact same thing: Hiding behind the achievements of others as if those achievements are their own, because they train in (or are fans of) the same "system."

Cult-like tribalism is one of the lowest aspects of human nature.

Jim

[Scandi Grind]

Warning: Long rant below that nobody is going to read, but I needed to vent, anyway.

Hah, I read it. Like most things you post in the thread there are some great points. I like how you mention that mixed martial arts isn't a new idea. Along those lines I remember when I first started taking steps towards getting into martial arts self training I was really worried about the idea of having to stitch 5 different arts together in order to get what I wanted. I saw the value in striking arts like Karate, grapling arts like Ju-Jitsu (the only thing I had previous experience doing) and throwing arts like Judo. It was hard to get good info on just one of them and feel like I could gain competence, but having to do two, three, five, that just seemed overwhelming. As a result me and my brother started trying to find arts that seemed as encompasing as possible. I was interested in Krav-Maga because of things I had seen from Michael South, then we found Systema. Narrowing down availible limited rescources I felt like like learning from Kevin Secours material because he had a lot of practical experience with Systema, he had a lot of content, and Systema seemed decently comprehensive and not overly specific to a certain fighting category.

Over time I started to get more comfortable mixing in other arts whenever I found something I liked. It seems Systema took a lot of inspiration from Chinese northern martial arts, and as it turned out we were able to get quite a bit of info on them. I liked many of the solo exercises from Chinese arts so those have become integral to my training regimen. I looked into Fairbairn and have mixed a bit of that in. I still have some left over Ju-Jitsu habits, so I use those too. At some point I began to realize two things were happening. One, I was doing the exact thing that I was afraid of starting out, which was stitching several martial arts together to get what I wanted; and two, I was doing everything in a way that was unique to me. I don't do "traditional" martial arts the way they used to be done, and me and my brother don't even do the same moves the same way. I was coming to realize that there are as many martial arts as there are practitioners. And not only that, I didn't have to be afraid of the fact that I will have to be creative to accomplish my goals.

Creativity can be hard, and when it comes to fighting we want the recipe that we believe will always be effective, but that's not how fighting works. Nothing guarantees victory, and no two fights will ever be the same. The more I embraced the fact that I am unique and further that every opponent is unique, the more I felt comfortable with the fact that creativity is part of what makes you effective. That doesn't mean you can do anything you want, you have to have a high standard as well as proper techniques, but tayloring those techniques to your own body is part of how you make them effective. There is a lot of stress in northern Chinese internal arts about the qualities to have, rather than movements that must be done to a specific pattern. They teach that your body can tell you the most efficient way to do something if you listen to it and practice. Me and my brother now often say when we encounter the same ideas across many different disciplines, "There are no secrets." It seems that people who pay attention often stumble upon the same skills despite widely divergent paths.

[James Y]

Warning: Long rant below that nobody is going to read, but I needed to vent, anyway.

Hah, I read it. Like most things you post in the thread there are some great points. I like how you mention that mixed martial arts isn't a new idea. Along those lines I remember when I first started taking steps towards getting into martial arts self training I was really worried about the idea of having to stitch 5 different arts together in order to get what I wanted. I saw the value in striking arts like Karate, grapling arts like Ju-Jitsu (the only thing I had previous experience doing) and throwing arts like Judo. It was hard to get good info on just one of them and feel like I could gain competence, but having to do two, three, five, that just seemed overwhelming. As a result me and my brother started trying to find arts that seemed as encompasing as possible. I was interested in Krav-Maga because of things I had seen from Michael South, then we found Systema. Narrowing down availible limited rescources I felt like like learning from Kevin Secours material because he had a lot of practical experience with Systema, he had a lot of content, and Systema seemed decently comprehensive and not overly specific to a certain fighting category.

Over time I started to get more comfortable mixing in other arts whenever I found something I liked. It seems Systema took a lot of inspiration from Chinese northern martial arts, and as it turned out we were able to get quite a bit of info on them. I liked many of the solo exercises from Chinese arts so those have become integral to my training regimen. I looked into Fairbairn and have mixed a bit of that in. I still have some left over Ju-Jitsu habits, so I use those too. At some point I began to realize two things were happening. One, I was doing the exact thing that I was afraid of starting out, which was stitching several martial arts together to get what I wanted; and two, I was doing everything in a way that was unique to me. I don't do "traditional" martial arts the way they used to be done, and me and my brother don't even do the same moves the same way. I was coming to realize that there are as many martial arts as there are practitioners. And not only that, I didn't have to be afraid of the fact that I will have to be creative to accomplish my goals.

Creativity can be hard, and when it comes to fighting we want the recipe that we believe will always be effective, but that's not how fighting works. Nothing guarantees victory, and no two fights will ever be the same. The more I embraced the fact that I am unique and further that every opponent is unique, the more I felt comfortable with the fact that creativity is part of what makes you effective. That doesn't mean you can do anything you want, you have to have a high standard as well as proper techniques, but tayloring those techniques to your own body is part of how you make them effective. There is a lot of stress in northern Chinese internal arts about the qualities to have, rather than movements that must be done to a specific pattern. They teach that your body can tell you the most efficient way to do something if you listen to it and practice. Me and my brother now often say when we encounter the same ideas across many different disciplines, "There are no secrets." It seems that people who pay attention often stumble upon the same skills despite widely divergent paths.

Thank you for your well thought-out post. I'm surprised that you actually read my rambling post.

One of the interesting things about martial arts is that I've seen highly advanced Japanese and Okinawan Karateka who had developed to such a degree that they had what many "internal" stylists refer to as "internal power." And they hadn't necessarily been seeking that out. My Choy Lee Fut sifu is into his 80s now, and he still moves with the fluidity, speed,and power of a much younger man. Of course, Choy Lee Fut also has Qigong practices, like Sup Baat Lohan Qigong. I've seen many masters of supposedly "external" systems who were every bit as "internal" as the internal masters I've seen in person. When many masters reach the higher levels, there ceases to be a divide between internal and external; they arrive at the same (or similar) destination, even if the paths they took to get there are different.

What you are on is a path to self-discovery, which is awesome. It's a constant evolution. And you make the art into something that is uniquely your own. That is what makes it an art; your own art, that represents the journey you are taking. Obviously, not just to be different, but you are fitting the art to work for you.

Jim

[James Y]

You Can’t Write Off Any Age



I’m not sure if I posted this video here or not. I don’t think so. I know I posted footage of that old man hitting the other old man with his cane in a nursing home, but I’m pretty certain it wasn’t one of Professor David’s videos.

I’m currently 62, and will be turning 63 in a few months. I look younger than my age. I do not underestimate anybody. But TBH, it’s not the old bad guys I train for. What the Professor neglected to mention is that as you get older, the ones most likely to target you are still going to be young people. Or at least youngER than you are. But most will be young. Just because you are getting older doesn’t mean that the demographic that would most likely target you is also going to be correspondingly older. It COULD happen, but less likely than a younger person. Unless, perhaps, you end up in a nursing home full of other old people, which I never will.

I never underestimate anybody, regardless of their age, physical size/build/appearance, race, sex, background, whatever. I know that ANYBODY can be potentially dangerous. It’s not paranoia, it’s awareness. Just like checking your mirrors AND looking back and to the sides while driving is not paranoia.

Jim

[Naperville]

I cannot do gymnastics. I signed up for a college level gymnastics class and their seemed to be little to no training, so I dropped the course.

If I could find a flexibility and balance class that would be great.

At 65 I am interested in keeping active physically and mentally so I am going to try something. I have to.

I am definitely going to do Tai Chi. 100%.

I may try pilates again. The instructors were not that great, and they do not teach or call out the activity that followed loudly enough. (I think that I may get a hearing aid to help.) I need to get an excellent instructor and place myself near them so that they show me what to do.

I will try some escrima/ arnis / kali.

The problem is I have to take a lot of supplements and pain killers before any activity because my flexibility is ZERO after sitting for 30 minutes. I'm not knocking the disabled. I move like one if I sit for too long.

[VashHash]

Jim how easy or hard is it realistically for a person armed with a lockblade knife to stop a mass shooter armed with a long gun?

About as hard as threading a needle in the dark with both hands tied behind your back. While also hanging upside down and having the worst case of dysentery imaginable.


But not impossible.....

[Naperville]

Jim After watching some of these videos and reading your posts I am seriously thinking of taking some classes.

Someone I know offered to show me some moves but the classes have mats and safety on site.

I do not want to break or sprain something, though.

Also, can I do a martial art without getting into chi, qi, kundalini stuff?

As James said you will from time to time get some bruises. I know a grandmaster who broke his arm but that is very rare.

Martial arts instruction is pretty safe.

[James Y]

I cannot do gymnastics. I signed up for a college level gymnastics class and their seemed to be little to no training, so I dropped the course.

If I could find a flexibility and balance class that would be great.

At 65 I am interested in keeping active physically and mentally so I am going to try something. I have to.

I am definitely going to do Tai Chi. 100%.

I may try pilates again. The instructors were not that great, and they do not teach or call out the activity that followed loudly enough. (I think that I may get a hearing aid to help.) I need to get an excellent instructor and place myself near them so that they show me what to do.

I will try some escrima/ arnis / kali.

The problem is I have to take a lot of supplements and pain killers before any activity because my flexibility is ZERO after sitting for 30 minutes. I'm not knocking the disabled. I move like one if I sit for too long.

Wishing you all the best in your health and training.

Tai Chi would be a good exercise. There are different forms of Tai Chi (Taiji Quan):

Yang style is the most common; and simplified Yang style is probably the one most taught to seniors.

Wu style is one I don’t know much about, even though I very briefly learned a bit back in the ‘80s.

Chen style, which is the oldest form of Tai Chi, incorporates more “martial” aspects, as well as more “fa jing” (power generation for martial purposes). It is more physically demanding than the other Tai Chi styles.

There are some others, variations probably, but I think those are the main ones. You would probably really have to search to find someone who legitimately teaches the Chen style. Yang style is the easiest to find, but it may only be taught as an exercise. Some Yang (and probably Wu) stylists might understand the martial aspects.

For whatever reason, Tai Chi has never appealed to me. As I mentioned, I learned a little bit of Wu style back in the early ‘80s, but didn’t stick with it. Much later in 2004, I learned a tiny bit of Yang style, because it was a course requirement when I was going through massage therapy school, to teach therapists proper body mechanics. I barely practiced it, because I already had the body mechanics down from having trained so long in Chinese martial arts, both northern and southern systems (Tanglang Quan, Chang Quan, and Choy Lee Fut. When doing the Tai Chi form, my body mechanics were actually more sound and “Tai Chi-like” than the teacher’s, so that part of the requirements was easy for me. But as soon as that was no longer a requirement for me, I just stopped doing the Tai Chi. IMO, Tai Chi is an excellent practice; but I guess that it just never appealed to me, personally, for some reason.

Jim