CR13MoV it's not what I thought.

[BeggarSo]

After having received a Harrier2 I decided to use it and it is swiftly becoming a favorite.

1. There is a sense of freedom like letting go of a breath that has been held too long and with it the tension, just well relaxing. $55.00 later and I am into a new knife no super steel worries, no money spent worries no bloody semi-Safe Queen worries just no worries.

That first point alone speaks to a value long unrecognized by me. Special yes but not $200.00 plus dare I use it special?

I think many here know what that means.

#2 CR13MoV is so easy to hone / Sharpen truly made for the Spyderco Gauntlet no need for diamond nor CBN just ceramics. I have this thing including the partial serrations slicing ribbons in telephone book paper. (Yes I kept a few for this) let's see google search fill that role

It strikes me that in many ways this is in reality for realistic real world pocket knife use a far more practical steel than many of the stubborn super steels and even more stubborn tool steels to get truly sharp and easily maintain.

If I were without any sharpening tools I believe the top of my trucks window glass would be enough to keep this sharp.

So cheers and hears to CR13Mov

[Evil D]

Spyderco really doesn't sell a knife with "bad steel", it's just as Sal days "all good, just different". Even the lowest end option is still better than what's in most kitchens and better than what a lot of people have carried for pocket knives.

[BeggarSo]

I just broke down a bunch of boxes with it and yep the super sharp is gone.

5 minutes on the Gauntlet rods followed by roughly 1 minute each grit on diamond straps 3 grits and back to super sharp.

It's kind of like taking a shower after working in the yard a little touch up and good to go

[chronovore]

As I've discussed in the Byrd subforum, I'm not a fan of 8Cr13MoV. However, I am fond of 9Cr18MoV and 10Cr15CoMoV. (10Cr15CoMoV is the Chinese analog of VG-10.) Either of those are decent EDC steels and can be found on very affordable knives. Both offer significantly better edge retention (and corrosion resistance) versus 8Cr13MoV.

Where 8Cr13MoV (or the analogous AUS-8) shines a bit is toughness. While nowhere near as tough as 14C28N, Nitro-V, or LC200N; it's significantly tougher than 9Cr18MoV, 10Cr15CoMoV or VG-10, N690, 154CM, D2, BD1N, or a lot of other steels people regularly carry. As the OP says, it is easy to sharpen, strop up, etc. As someone else put it years ago, "it's easy to get screamin' sharp."

The first big issue is that it doesn't stay "screamin' sharp". That impressive fine edge rapidly degrades to a ho-hum working edge. That'll hang on for a while, maybe achieving total edge life on par with better steels like Nitro-V or 14C28N. It's just the quality of that edge over the total edge life... Put it this way. I keep a few budget knives on top of my Microwave for random tasks. I'll often grab the ones in Nitro-V or 14C28N but the other day, I cut up a bunch of stuff with 8Cr13MoV. I got a potent reminder of why I'm so glad that so much of the rest of the budget market had long left it in the dust. That said, my second issue is that Spyderco keeps using it and uses it at the prices it does in the current market.

[Manifestgtr]

I’ve never been a major edge retention freak.

My big thing has always been how sharp can I make this and how easily? Will it come back at least once or twice with a strop? Is the edge aggressive or does it have more of a “shingggg” quality to it?

Spyderco’s entry level steels are interesting in those senses because they’re all a bit different. For my purposes, VG10 doesn’t get particularly aggressive but it’s really easy to manage. 8cr is stupidly easy and, to me at least, you can get a bit more aggression than VG10. BD1N is my favorite…it’s a near-perfect “budget” steel IMO. I don’t have anything with CR13 but I’d be interested to see where it lives in that continuum.

[matthewkuhl]

It's an excellent beginner steel because it's fairly tough and terribly easy to sharpen

[sal]

Hey Chronovore,

We're slowly moving into higher carbon content blade steels on our Chinese models. We like to test them first and make sure the maker can work and heat treat the steel. Larger volumes are required for a run, so it takes a while to go through inventory. Though I must admit that 8Cr13 has served us swell for more than 20 years.

sal

[Wowbagger]

. . . We're slowly moving into higher carbon content blade steels on our Chinese models. . . .

sal

THANK YOU SO MUCH for the M 4 Tenacious ! ! !
I bought three (did a little blade shape modding on two) . . . are for daily heavy use . THEY MAKE ME SMILE ((can't get enough M4 )).
They take a beautiful blue patina ! ((I use YELLOW Kiwi next to the skin)) .
Love these knives (thanks Eric !).

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Hey Chronovore,

We're slowly moving into higher carbon content blade steels on our Chinese models. We like to test them first and make sure the maker can work and heat treat the steel. Larger volumes are required for a run, so it takes a while to go through inventory. Though I must admit that 8Cr13 has served us swell for more than 20 years.

sal

Thank you, sal, you are so cool and amazing.

Can we see some Byrd knives with 10Cr15CoMoV which is the Chinese analog of VG-10 ?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I am so glad you love the Byrd Harrier. I do, too, though mine preferred is the Wharncliffe.

[Rezimus]

Hey Chronovore,

We're slowly moving into higher carbon content blade steels on our Chinese models. We like to test them first and make sure the maker can work and heat treat the steel. Larger volumes are required for a run, so it takes a while to go through inventory. Though I must admit that 8Cr13 has served us swell for more than 20 years.

sal

Hey Sal hope all is well. Do you think you guys will ever move/add production of any of the Seki lockback models anywhere else? I ask as I know the community loves the Stretch 2/Delica/Endura/etc but would love to see them regularly made in some steels not currently used in Japan.

If I recall correctly you had mentioned in an old post how the Seki factory prefers to only use particular steels they are very familiar with. The k390 stretch 2 is probably my favorite knife after 20 years of carrying spyderco's so more steel options (stainless) would be a huge win.

Thanks for all you do.

[chronovore]

It's an excellent beginner steel because it's fairly tough and terribly easy to sharpen

You could say the same and do it better with 14C28N.

[matthewkuhl]

You could say the same and do it better with 14C28N.

Ok, and is that a budget Spyderco steel?

[chronovore]

Hey Chronovore,

We're slowly moving into higher carbon content blade steels on our Chinese models. We like to test them first and make sure the maker can work and heat treat the steel. Larger volumes are required for a run, so it takes a while to go through inventory. Though I must admit that 8Cr13 has served us swell for more than 20 years.

sal

Thanks, Sal!

I know you had mentioned this a while back and I'm glad to see you still working on it. I've spent a lot of time with 9Cr18MoV and it has been very good, especially from WE. 10Cr15CoMoV would be an interesting choice as it is an analog of VG-10. I've had 10Cr15CoMoV from a bunch of different Chinese companies now and it seems decent. I don't know who you use for your current stuff in 8Cr13MoV but I guess I'd be surprised if either of those alternatives were a challenge for them.

I know you've used Sanrenmu for some stuff in the past. They've been doing a lot of knives in 14C28N for years now. It really is a darling EDC steel (especially at decent hardness). Everything that 8Cr13MoV does well, 14C28N does so much better.

[chronovore]

You could say the same and do it better with 14C28N.

Ok, and is that a budget Spyderco steel?

No but I'd rather say "not yet". Given that we are talking about Spyderco's Chinese production, it's worth noting that 14C28N has become increasingly mainstream on Chinese budget knives. It has become Kubey's default budget steel. It is now commonly used (alongside Nitro-V) by Civivi (WE), Kizer, QSP, and others. As I mentioned above, Sanrenmu has been using it across different brands for years now and Spyderco already has a relationship with them.

[sal]

Hi Chronovore,

I've never been a fan of 14Cr. I'll test it again. They show some new Chemistry with N.

Also, Sandvik has bee a hard company for me to deal with. Don't know why? It took years to get a sample of 19C.

Do you know if the Chinese companies that you mentioned are using Sandvik's steels, or the Chinese equivalents?

sal

[Red Leader]

Hi Chronovore,

I've never been a fan of 14Cr. I'll test it again.

sal

Sal - I appreciate this. Do you mean 14C28N (Sandvik) specifically, or just steels in that group? I'm curious to hear what you like and don't like about it. I have a few knives in it, and I like the steel. Right now, I carry all sorts of Spyderco steels into the field (Magnacut, 10V, 15V, XHP, K390), but sometimes I find myself hesitating on their use for certain things where a higher toughness blade might otherwise shine.

I know Spyderco uses BD1N for its budget American knives, but I'm wondering if 14C28N could even be a better option? The reason I don't really favor BD1N is that it looks so similar to 14C28N as far as wear resistance and stainless qualities go, but with far less toughness, and working in the trades, I really value the added toughness.

Larrin had a great article on budget knife steels (which you are likely already aware of), but here is what he said about 14C...

"So after reviewing many of these steels I think 14C28N is the best. It has high toughness, above average corrosion resistance, and decent edge retention. It is also “fine blankable” and easy to sharpen with any stones, which were mentioned as bonus categories at the top of the article. The steel also has high “grindability” and “polishability” which makes costs low for knife manufacturers..."

At this point, I'm interested in Spyderco's take on 14C28N, heat-treat wise. I'm betting y'all can come up with a dynamite protocol and make some of the best 14C28N anyone's ever seen. I'm also thinking it could be very popular.

[sal]

Hi Red Leader,

We like to do our own testing rather than rely on the opinions of others, that's why we bought our CATRA machine decades ago. While I have a lot of respect for Larrin and appreciate his work, I would like to know if his test results were actual or virtual?

I've never had much luck getting steel from Sandvik. I've tried many times. We'll try again to get test pieces and heat treat information.

I believe that BD1N has better edge retention than 14C28N.

With all of the new Chinese steels and Chinee knife makers, I think more testing will be needed.

sal

[Red Leader]

Hi Red Leader,

We like to do our own testing rather than rely on the opinions of others, that's why we bought our CATRA machine decades ago. While I have a lot of respect for Larrin and appreciate his work, I would like to know if his test results were actual or virtual?

I've never had much luck getting steel from Sandvik. I've tried many times. We'll try again to get test pieces and heat treat information.

I believe that BD1N has better edge retention than 14C28N.

With all of the new Chinese steels and Chinee knife makers, I think more testing will be needed.

sal

Thanks Sal! It is really surprising to me to hear that it is hard to get, with just how many budget-oriented knives come in this steel - or is it really Sandvik, or a copy of it? It gives the impression that is it extremely easy to get, but you would obviously know better than I. I appreciate your thoughts about re-testing.

[chronovore]

Hi Chronovore,

I've never been a fan of 14Cr. I'll test it again. They show some new Chemistry with N.

Also, Sandvik has bee a hard company for me to deal with. Don't know why? It took years to get a sample of 19C.

Do you know if the Chinese companies that you mentioned are using Sandvik's steels, or the Chinese equivalents?

sal

AFAIK, there is no known Chinese analog for 14C28N. From everything I've seen, they are importing it. (I understand the concern given that a small number of companies still stamp "VG-10" on 10Cr15CoMoV.) Like I said though, 14C28N is seeing widespread use now, including by some of the most reputable Chinese manufacturers. Heat treatments seem to have improved too.

BTW, you're right about the magic of nitrogen. I'm also a fan of BD1N. I think the corrosion resistance for BD1N and 14C28N are very close. BD1N gets a little more edge retention and 14C28N gets a lot more toughness. (The other part of the magic for 14C28N is the very fine grain structure.)