Golden Age of Supersteels Over???

[jwesley235]

The closing of Crucible (pioneers in tool steel powdered metallurgy) and losing the only foundry that could make 15V and REX121 was definitely the end of an era. Knife steel heads had it better than a lot of us realized, I think.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Some new blade material ideas. Let's get people like Larrin to work out how to make these real.

1 In the fictional Star Trek Universe the Klingons make D'K Tahg daggers and Bat'Leth swords from a metal alloy that is malleable until hardened and once heat treated forms into one giant single crystal metal molecule that is elastic and tough but rust proof and holds a great edge.

We can call it Salutanium :)

2 Ceramic Steel and Ceramic Metal alloys

3 Polymer Steel that has the properties of MagnaCut and LC200N but the moldability of FRN.

[Actinolite]

Before moving within two miles of a saltwater shoreline, I didn't worry about corrosion. The only time I had corrosion on a knife was by leaving it out in the rain and forgetting it. But here? The rain is slightly acid, the salt spray invades the trails I walk, and rust is an ever-present issue. I really like Cruwear and other tool steels, but find myself carrying Magnacut, SPY27, and other rust resistant blades.

[VandymanG]

I think Crucible will be missed and I wonder if the Golden Age of American Super steel is over for now when it comes to knives. It doesn’t seem like other steel companies like CTS are as interested in knife steel since it is a small niche market in the steel industry. Guess we will have to get steel from over seas to satisfy us. I will definitely miss CPM 15V.

[Mark!]

Other CPM enthusiasts may disagree. But I've never been a fan of these alloys. High hardness doesn't necessarily mean reliable steel. Physical alloying is possible without powder technologies. The careful distribution of microscopic carbides in steel makes the cutting edge bald. Hard but extremely brittle steel cannot be called either reliable or super steel. And beautiful "Damascus" is generally the worst of the "beautiful" steels.

But there is a technologically sound and bold solution. Crucible technologies for the slow growth of dendritic hypereutectoid alloys allow for the production of excellent blanks. And in their natural state, they are very weak. They cannot be processed using existing metallurgical equipment. In terms of strength, after a very unusual high-speed forging process, they can significantly exceed many mono-steels, since they can be given a unique ultra-micro-grained structure. And in beauty, they can rival ancient Indian "wootz steel". And such blanks are easy to make, even from existing alloys.

The problem lies in the unpreparedness of large-scale production facilities for their ultra-high-speed forging and subsequent ultra-fast quenching in pearlitic and bainitic states. However, these problems are quite solvable by developing compact equipment that can operate under such conditions.

Heavy industry and metallurgy in general never mass-produced such alloys or such equipment. And knife makers practically never produced steel, using only what they could buy in sheets and strips. But even here, our beloved Spyderco was a surprising exception.

The question is how prepared the company is to solve this problem, which clearly goes beyond its market focus. After all, this will require not only research but also reliable mechanisms to protect its know-how. Patents no longer protect against theft by a major Eastern power.

And the field of activity here is very interesting and free for bold inventions. The golden age of supersteel, which will be close to its theoretical amorphous strength and flexibility, is just beginning. I am sure that the future lies in super-hard, yet highly flexible steels capable of cutting glass.

[silver & black]

I'm not new to steel. I have used and sharpened most "tool steels" over the past 50 years. I'm intrigued with all the new powdered steels and their properties. I own CruWear, Magnacut and M4 in knives. What other steels should I explore that are good for EDC and use in a furniture shop?

[Scandi Grind]

Spy27 perhaps? I think it is basically PM VG-10. It seems like the prices on the Spy27 offerings is pretty good when compared to the BD1n counterparts.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Many in the knife industry purchase by appearance rather than performance, especially folks new to the industry. As one learns more, then, "Beyond Looks" plays a larger role. Steel is one of those few areas were "looks" play little value and the focus is on performance.

I would like to predict that steels with an unusual appearance will play a bigger part in the industry in the net 10 - 20 years. I'm planning a Damascus Mule. Many like the looks of the hipped Ceramic blade Mule.

Hey Larrin, what can we do to steel to alter the appearance? (besides teeth).

sal

I go by a satin finish almost completely. I do not personally like blade coatings. Mirror finish is too bright for me but a light stone wash is the darkest I accept.

I don't like those raw spines or hammer forge marks either. Just my opinions. :)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Are you saying 420 stainless steel was originally patented in 1920?

[Spyderbot_matrix]

Great Read !!! Hard to say Honestly- Considering that lonnnnnng list of steels and their age- the industry can absolutely tweak and mod compositions to make “diffently named steels”

… it’s the process I’m sitting back with popcorn and soda that I’m interested in. The CPM process turned the industry on it’s head.

I can’t wait for a steel to be sublimated then reformed tempered, and truly cryoformed into a plate of glass that doesn’t rust, holds an edge forever, and you can cut through OFC 4/0 wire with a engineer hammer on the spine. Only plasma cnc can cut it- Sci-fi stuff

I am perfectly content with 1095/HC as an everyday steel. Cerakote it for outdoor use, or Chapstick for food. Spyderco med grit stone is all I’d need

I shouldn’t like the exclusivity of rare steels in a pocket knife as much as I do, But there is a part of me that wants a “Hattori Hanzo”

Hopefully I’m not alone and other people besides Niagra will answer the call

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Is H1 and H2 supersteel?

[Spyderbot_matrix]

Is H1 and H2 supersteel?

H2 is considered a supersteel, H1 is a “budget” steel.
Lcn200 is the King of Rustproof and S110V is the Rustproof edge retention king-

S110V takes work, even on Diamond sharpeners when it eventually needs sharpening. I don’t have H1/H2/LCN200, but they are way easier to sharpen if someone else can chime in

[Mark!]

I wrote to Sal twice, but he never responded. So I'll write it here in the open. Therefore, it's no longer possible to patent this—its novelty has been violated by open publication.

Melting steel is very expensive these days. So it makes sense to ask the sun for help. To solve the steel production problem, I would propose creating an eco-division—Spyderco Solar Steel (SSS). Incidentally, it's a wonderful acronym for their steel brand.

What does a solar furnace "Spyderco Solar Steel" (SSS) for scale-up steel production look like? The crucible with the charge is at the focus of the mirrors. Sunlight melts the steel for free when the sun is shining. Due to the extremely high temperature at the focus (up to 3500°C) and the cleanliness of the heating (absence of combustion products), the process will be cleaner than in any furnace. The issue of sun availability is easily resolved by locating production in a sunny state or neighboring Mexico.

A wheel-shaped (or disc-shaped) seed touches the melt through a layer of flux. Furthermore, no one can stop you from building a large, transparent-walled cabinet around the crucible and filling it with inert gas. Or filling it with gas from the combustion of a certain amount of fuel. This will at least protect the hot metal from oxidation. As the seed wheel rotates, the adhering metal is released from the crucible. On this disk, the melt rapidly cools, forming a micrograined steel structure. Then, passing through the flux again, the wheel contacts a new layer of metal, which also quickly transfers heat to the previous layer.

Thus, 10 kg of high-quality micrograined metal can be built up on a small workpiece in an hour. You can build up several different steels into a single ingot, creating a delicious layered pie for a knife lover. Thanks to rapid crystallization and multiple recrystallization, the resulting ingot should be close to that of CPM steels. The amount of metal required is determined by the size of the mirrors and crucibles. All of this is scalable and inexpensive compared to metallurgical furnaces. Scaling: More mirrors -> more energy -> larger crucible -> larger seed = larger blanks can be grown.

There are only a few industrial-scale solar furnaces in the world. They are located in research centers (in France, Uzbekistan, Spain, and Russia). And no one grows knife steel using the sun as a standard eco-technology. I think the investment in a laboratory installation operating on a company roof is insignificant. There, the technology could be refined through laboratory testing. Then, engineers could be tasked with creating the first large-scale industrial installation capable of producing several dozen kilograms of this solar steel per day. Then, all that's left is to accumulate experience and expand your business.

ps
... our eco-friendly knives are produced by the sun itself.

[Paul Ardbeg]

I wrote to Sal twice, but he never responded. So I'll write it here in the open. Therefore, it's no longer possible to patent this—its novelty has been violated by open publication.

Melting steel is very expensive these days. So it makes sense to ask the sun for help. To solve the steel production problem, I would propose creating an eco-division—Spyderco Solar Steel (SSS). Incidentally, it's a wonderful acronym for their steel brand.

What does a solar furnace "Spyderco Solar Steel" (SSS) for scale-up steel production look like? The crucible with the charge is at the focus of the mirrors. Sunlight melts the steel for free when the sun is shining. Due to the extremely high temperature at the focus (up to 3500°C) and the cleanliness of the heating (absence of combustion products), the process will be cleaner than in any furnace. The issue of sun availability is easily resolved by locating production in a sunny state or neighboring Mexico.

A wheel-shaped (or disc-shaped) seed touches the melt through a layer of flux. Furthermore, no one can stop you from building a large, transparent-walled cabinet around the crucible and filling it with inert gas. Or filling it with gas from the combustion of a certain amount of fuel. This will at least protect the hot metal from oxidation. As the seed wheel rotates, the adhering metal is released from the crucible. On this disk, the melt rapidly cools, forming a micrograined steel structure. Then, passing through the flux again, the wheel contacts a new layer of metal, which also quickly transfers heat to the previous layer.

Thus, 10 kg of high-quality micrograined metal can be built up on a small workpiece in an hour. You can build up several different steels into a single ingot, creating a delicious layered pie for a knife lover. Thanks to rapid crystallization and multiple recrystallization, the resulting ingot should be close to that of CPM steels. The amount of metal required is determined by the size of the mirrors and crucibles. All of this is scalable and inexpensive compared to metallurgical furnaces. Scaling: More mirrors -> more energy -> larger crucible -> larger seed = larger blanks can be grown.

There are only a few industrial-scale solar furnaces in the world. They are located in research centers (in France, Uzbekistan, Spain, and Russia). And no one grows knife steel using the sun as a standard eco-technology. I think the investment in a laboratory installation operating on a company roof is insignificant. There, the technology could be refined through laboratory testing. Then, engineers could be tasked with creating the first large-scale industrial installation capable of producing several dozen kilograms of this solar steel per day. Then, all that's left is to accumulate experience and expand your business.

ps
... our eco-friendly knives are produced by the sun itself.

Solar foundries are already patented by Panatère.....

I'm all for using the incredible power of the sun. However, for Spyderco to invest in their own foundry in a relatively low volume market as the knife world, I don't see Spyderco bankrolling that. Partnership with a company like Panatère or an intermediate like Niagara in the past with Crucible makes more sense.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Is H1 and H2 supersteel?

H2 is considered a supersteel, H1 is a “budget” steel.
Lcn200 is the King of Rustproof and S110V is the Rustproof edge retention king-

S110V takes work, even on Diamond sharpeners when it eventually needs sharpening. I don’t have H1/H2/LCN200, but they are way easier to sharpen if someone else can chime in

Thank you so much!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I wrote to Sal twice, but he never responded. So I'll write it here in the open. Therefore, it's no longer possible to patent this—its novelty has been violated by open publication.

Melting steel is very expensive these days. So it makes sense to ask the sun for help. To solve the steel production problem, I would propose creating an eco-division—Spyderco Solar Steel (SSS). Incidentally, it's a wonderful acronym for their steel brand.

What does a solar furnace "Spyderco Solar Steel" (SSS) for scale-up steel production look like? The crucible with the charge is at the focus of the mirrors. Sunlight melts the steel for free when the sun is shining. Due to the extremely high temperature at the focus (up to 3500°C) and the cleanliness of the heating (absence of combustion products), the process will be cleaner than in any furnace. The issue of sun availability is easily resolved by locating production in a sunny state or neighboring Mexico.

A wheel-shaped (or disc-shaped) seed touches the melt through a layer of flux. Furthermore, no one can stop you from building a large, transparent-walled cabinet around the crucible and filling it with inert gas. Or filling it with gas from the combustion of a certain amount of fuel. This will at least protect the hot metal from oxidation. As the seed wheel rotates, the adhering metal is released from the crucible. On this disk, the melt rapidly cools, forming a micrograined steel structure. Then, passing through the flux again, the wheel contacts a new layer of metal, which also quickly transfers heat to the previous layer.

Thus, 10 kg of high-quality micrograined metal can be built up on a small workpiece in an hour. You can build up several different steels into a single ingot, creating a delicious layered pie for a knife lover. Thanks to rapid crystallization and multiple recrystallization, the resulting ingot should be close to that of CPM steels. The amount of metal required is determined by the size of the mirrors and crucibles. All of this is scalable and inexpensive compared to metallurgical furnaces. Scaling: More mirrors -> more energy -> larger crucible -> larger seed = larger blanks can be grown.

There are only a few industrial-scale solar furnaces in the world. They are located in research centers (in France, Uzbekistan, Spain, and Russia). And no one grows knife steel using the sun as a standard eco-technology. I think the investment in a laboratory installation operating on a company roof is insignificant. There, the technology could be refined through laboratory testing. Then, engineers could be tasked with creating the first large-scale industrial installation capable of producing several dozen kilograms of this solar steel per day. Then, all that's left is to accumulate experience and expand your business.

ps
... our eco-friendly knives are produced by the sun itself.

I think this is pure genius.
Rice University showed many years ago along with the French and NASA that we can use solar furnaces to melt carbon and steel to create what I call duranium: carbon nanotube and carbyne infused steel. This is what Federation Starships use in their hull layers.

Carbyne is pure covalent carbon with alternating triple and single bonds. Ignore the small minded skeptics who say it is related to acetylene and would ignite. Polyyne, too.

I would love for the US government to give Spyderco a 1 to 10 billion dollar grant for these and other projects.

[sal]

I wrote to Sal twice, but he never responded. So I'll write it here in the open. Therefore, it's no longer possible to patent this—its novelty has been violated by open publication.

Hi Mark,

FYI, I never rece9ved anything regarding the solution presented.

sal

[RustyIron]

Sunlight melts the steel for free when the sun is shining.

It sounds as if you put a lot of time and effort into your solar foundry project. How fortunate to be an expert in BOTH energy AND steel production!

As a mere dabbler, it would take me far too long to figure out the answers to some basic questions that come to mind. You probably know this off the top of your head. What are the power requirements for the steel foundry you propose? How much land area are you going to need to obtain that amount of light energy?

Will your giant crucible sit atop a giant tower, like a modern liquid salt plant? Will you need more than a square mile covered in heliostats? How much more?

[Danke]

The French one looks like this. It would be a significant project. I don't think the current US government is into anything solar or wind. I wouldn't hold out on a grant.



Also, Federation Starships? That explains a lot.

[dullmaker]

Probably No tax credit either