Another thread for discussing a Chaparral XL - now that it came one step closer to becoming a reality

[elena86]

I’d much prefer it to retain the 2mm stock.
2.5mm would still allow for a geometry similar to that of the UKPK or Delica but on a 3.5” blade, however its exceptional cutting ability the Chaparral is renowned for would be diminished - Still good but not definitively good.

Anything above 2.5mm is a non-starter for me as it’ll be too similar to the majority of The other Spyderco line up and would no longer offer anything unique - Just another back lock Spyderco.

It begs the question; has anyone actually damaged the edge of a Chaparral through normal use? - I know I havnt.

Of course 2.00 mm!!

2.50 in my previous post was a typo, and it is almost comical that of all people it exactly happened to me...
... When I started advocating for a "Chap XL" sticking with the 2.00 mm ffg stock actually was the main point (and, yes, that this is rather unique in Spydercos line up)

/ I haven´t damaged blade or edge of my Chap... to me it actually is a pretty "hard use" folder.

The concept of a 3.5” XL Chap with a 2 mm blade stock is a challenge in itself. I am quite confident that such a blade will be strong enough to withstand any normal use. Normal as in cutting stuff not prying or batoning. I really hope this concept will be eye opening for lots of knife users and Spyderco in the same time. I also hope that more thin behind the edge grinds will follow next.

P.S I am not advocating for 2mm blade stocks in every blade but it annoys me when instead of clean slicing an apple( or any given mundane material ) my Para 3 will split or crack it, not to mention the pealing process. Why on earth would you need a 3.7 mm thick stock( and unnecessary thick bte) on a 3” blade ?! Of course I know that the comp lock works better with a thicker stock but nevertheless… it’s waisted material and money not to mention performance.

[sal]

Hi Marius,

The preferences of knife using people varies considerably. We have to serve that wide preference variation.

sal

[elena86]

Hi Marius,

The preferences of knife using people varies considerably. We have to serve that wide preference variation.

sal

I understand that sir, hence my P.S. My post was not intended to be a criticism but those of us who just want to use their blades more like a clean slicing tool have only a few choices the Chaparral being one of them. Looking forward to the XL Chaparral in spyderedge !

[sal]

Let's get the model into production and see response? It might just be the beginning of a "thin" line?

sal

[Wartstein]

Let's get the model into production and see response? It might just be the beginning of a "thin" line?

sal

This all sounds so good.. both the [Chap XL] into production part and the possible perspective of a thin line
...
Almost can't believe that after quite some years of dreaming of and talking about such a model again and again it really looks like we might actually be able to get one eventually!

Thanks, Sal!!

[cycleguy]

[/quote]

Almost can't believe that after quite some years of dreaming of and talking about such a model again and again it really looks like we might actually be able to get one eventually!

Thanks, Sal!!
[/quote]

Seems to be where it all starts … a brainwave, a thought, an idea……

[Red Leader]

Let's get the model into production and see response? It might just be the beginning of a "thin" line?

sal

Agreed - should be excellent. Gabe w/ 'The Home Slice' has been doing knife discussions on his channel and recently was talking about the concept of 'just using your knife for knife things' so that we could all enjoy the benefit of thinner, slicier blades...




I've been really enjoying his Spyderco-related content as of late. A knife/steel afi at heart...


IF the toughness/resistance to breakage of a thinner, harder blade is of concern, there are some way to mitigate that, including a slightly smaller Spydie hole, and not having a sharp 90 degree blade grind at the bevel running up through the Spydie hole.

Some models, such as the Lil' Temperance, have a gently sloping curve as part of the bevel transitioning to the flat. What you lose in ease in sharpening the choil area when there is that sloping transition, you gain in the reduction of stress risers.

[Wartstein]

The concept of a 3.5” XL Chap with a 2 mm blade stock is a challenge in itself. I am quite confident that such a blade will be strong enough to withstand any normal use. Normal as in cutting stuff not prying or batoning. I really hope this concept will be eye opening for lots of knife users and Spyderco in the same time. I also hope that more thin behind the edge grinds will follow next.

P.S I am not advocating for 2mm blade stocks in every blade but it annoys me when instead of clean slicing an apple( or any given mundane material ) my Para 3 will split or crack it, not to mention the pealing process. Why on earth would you need a 3.7 mm thick stock( and unnecessary thick bte) on a 3” blade ?! Of course I know that the comp lock works better with a thicker stock but nevertheless… it’s waisted material and money not to mention performance.

This is exactly what I try to bring across all the time:

As far as I can see:
For what people on this forum in almost all cases really do with their folders 3.7 mm blade stock is not needed at all, especially in the small Para 3 size range... and strictly performancewise, when we´re talking cutting, the thickness of the blade (and thus the more obtuse primary grind (though mitigated a bit by the tallness of the blade and the tapering)) is just one factor that does not help
... (and yes, there ARE of course other advantages a thick bladed small folder might bring, like stronger lock interface, more comfort of the finger on the thicker spine....)

And when it comes to "strength for super hard use": One of my pet peeves comes into play again:
Even if there was/is whatever folder task that is so "hard" that the thick blade is needed for it:
With the blade shape of the Para 3 in most ( not all) cases the finer tip would snap long before one could ever make use of the thick-blade-strength.
Or some other part of the knife would give in (pivot...)

Realistically though I never came across a folder task where the 2mm Chap or 2.5mm Delica ffg blades were too thin and "weak" - and I think I may say that I do use my folders for all kinds of tasks, and not baby them at all.

Of course a elongated, 3.5" 2mm stock Chap blade will be more fragile and will have to be handled with a bit more care than the shorter one of the current Chap. But as you say: I am certain that in any remotely "normal" folder use a Chap XL will work perfectly well and on top offer one factor (thinner blade) that can only help with what a folder primarily was made for: Cutting / slicing...

I am glad and grateful that Spyderco and Sal are willing to give us an option to find out!

[sal]

A couple of thoughts to share;

The world of knives and knife users is as wide and varied as just about any other similar activity. A isst of all of things that world wide knife users do with their knives, would be an interesting study. You are knife Afi's, so your depth of interest and depth of understanding is not what I would call common knowledge.

My normal approach to this type of project is usually the same; "I don't know. Let's try it and see what happens"?.

sal

[Wartstein]

...."I don't know. Let's try it and see what happens"?.

sal

Very much looking forward to just doing this and then have a conversation on this forum!

Thanks for the opportunities to do so, Sal!

[horzuff]

Maybe You could also just include a note about this being a high performance but slightly less durable design, focused on cutting ability instead of tougher tasks. Similar to what is written about Maxamet/Rex121/15V knives but about the geometry instead of the alloy.

I feel like more and more people are searching for well cutting blades nowadays, there's a decent amount of below 3mm knives being produced, quite a bit less of 4mm+ than say 5 years ago

[WilliamMunny]

Let's get the model into production and see response? It might just be the beginning of a "thin" line?

sal

Could be a great idea. I recently got a Kapara s90v and love it. It’s a pretty thin blade and just cuts so nicely with so little drag.

[Wartstein]

L
.... It might just be the beginning of a "thin" line?

Could be a great idea. I recently got a Kapara s90v and love it. It’s a pretty thin blade and just cuts so nicely with so little drag.

The Kapara is a great knife indeed, but it actually has a 3mm blade, just like Endela or even the longer Endura.

Now imagine a Chap XL:
Roughly Kapara-length blade, but with just 2mm stock and also a bit taller, which should make for steeper geometry...

[Flash]

I’d love a thin line geared purely for cutting performance, but then I only use my folding knives for cutting plant material, wood and cardboard etc. No prying or (intended) impacts on the edge.

Imagine a 2mm Lil Temperance?

Anyway I can’t wait for the Chap XL, especially if in 2mm - that is probably going to be a grail knife for me.

[p_atrick]

Imagine a 2mm Lil Temperance?

The current blade stock is around 4mm. So with a blade half as thick, it would make the handle a bit thinner too. While the Lil' Temp can feel a little bulky in the pocket, it is great in the hand. Would 2mm make a big difference? I don't know. How about a nice, thin hollow grind on the current 4mm blade stock? That way we both get what we want.

[horzuff]

I think we're not talking about substituting the originals but expanding the range, so there would be place for both and the market would decide. Also adding a bit of thickness to the handles shouldn't pose any problems

[Red Leader]

I'm also sort of wondering how much toughness, or resistance to breakage, a taller blade could be in the 3.5" length, as compared to the height of the current Chaparral blade. If it has to meet some sort of basic toughness threshold that the factory/R&D tests for, I'm betting that playing with the height might help find the balance. Spydercos normally carry wider than other knives anyway due to the Spydie hole, so what some might consider a hindrance could also be a benefit in this case, as it is 'per usual'.

Although, given that the 'slicey' factor is the whole reason for the thinness of the blade, could a taller blade add in more friction into cuts, the taller it gets? I'm sure somewhere is the right tradeoff.

[Wartstein]

I'm also sort of wondering how much toughness, or resistance to breakage, a taller blade could be in the 3.5" length, as compared to the height of the current Chaparral blade. If it has to meet some sort of basic toughness threshold that the factory/R&D tests for, I'm betting that playing with the height might help find the balance. Spydercos normally carry wider than other knives anyway due to the Spydie hole, so what some might consider a hindrance could also be a benefit in this case, as it is 'per usual'.

Although, given that the 'slicey' factor is the whole reason for the thinness of the blade, could a taller blade add in more friction into cuts, the taller it gets? I'm sure somewhere is the right tradeoff.

Interesting and sensible points!

I still believe though that a Chap XL 3.5" blade instead of the current 2.8" and with the same height (and 2mm stock) will not be "fragile" and one main point of this project is to prove this (or, worst case, not... )

The current Chap can be used pretty hard for a folder, believe me, and so a longer one, though more prone to breaking due to more tapering and potential more leverage should still be sufficient for 99% of the cutting tasks people realistically do with their folders - you with your work on construction sites might be an exception indeed though!

/ As for "sliciness reduced by a taller blade": Perhaps what you say is a thing when cutting wide, soft matter (more friction/drag), but generally a taller blade could even ADD to "sliciness" due to the steeper primary grind angle...?

Anyway, I personally sure hope a Chap XL will be exactly the same as the current one, just lengthened... (and with a not too fine tip!)