Decline of serrations

[RustyIron]

As a technician, serrated knives have been valuable tools for me (i have gone through somewhere between 10 and 20 Enduras, amongst other knives, while working for a mining company) and i think i remember way more "teeth" in shops some years ago.

That's a lot of worn out knives! For me, the serrated knives shine for doing yard work. They're more likely to bite into plant material than are plain edged knives.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you guys mining? Industry in my general region was built upon mining. My younger years were spent exploring old mines and ghost towns. It still love that stuff.

[Jago]

As a technician, serrated knives have been valuable tools for me (i have gone through somewhere between 10 and 20 Enduras, amongst other knives, while working for a mining company) and i think i remember way more "teeth" in shops some years ago.

That's a lot of worn out knives! For me, the serrated knives shine for doing yard work. They're more likely to bite into plant material than are plain edged knives.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you guys mining? Industry in my general region was built upon mining. My younger years were spent exploring old mines and ghost towns. It still love that stuff.

To be fair, i lost more of them than i actually broke or wore out, the Endura can take way more beating than you would think.
To really kill one, you need to do stupid things such as to have the blade up to the handle stuck in massive rubber and then full force yank on it like a chimp, thats a nice way to break them at the pivot.


No, i don't mind, in general terms its just sand.
One of the more boring kinds of mining with the nice side effect that everthing gets crunchy.
The constant bombardment of literal abrasives is very hard on any kind of equipment, if you ever had problems with sand getting into stuff on a beach, multiply that by 10 and thats what you get there every day.

[RustyIron]

No, i don't mind, in general terms its just sand.
One of the more boring kinds of mining with the nice side effect that everthing gets crunchy.
The constant bombardment of literal abrasives is very hard on any kind of equipment,

Big machines doing cool stuff sounds exciting. I'm imagine storms of lapping compound abrading away at anything that's in the way. Thanks for sharing.

[Mini2white]

I am not keen on full serrations, except for my rescue knives. They have a job to do. I do love a good combo edge. The original 440v military and ladybugs where just the ends were plain was great. Newer models of 50 50 are ok but seem to be harder to find.

[40mm]

This is the way.

[Bolster]

I dunno. As good as they cut, serrated doesn't compete well among people who are 'into' knives. This is the distribution of answers from 381 forumites in 2023. Plain edge is still the far-and-away people pleaser.

[Midnightrider]

The SE Police 4 in K390 is great, i have that one too, sadly they seem to have been discontinued.
For work i switched from the SE Endura's to SE Stretch 2 XL's by now, feels better with gloves and is sometimes even aviable at a reasonable price.

EU pricing is generally on the spicy end of the spectrum, seeing the deals aviable in the US on a regular basis makes my eyes water a little bit.

Nuz.cz has both the serrrated and plain edge P4 K390s in FRN in stock, both at a huge prices.

If I could find another P4 K390 in G10, I'd buy it just to keep for a rainy day, since it's my most carried knife over the last decade.

https://www.nuz.cz/eshop/zaviraci-noze/ ... any-detail
https://www.nuz.cz/eshop/zaviraci-noze/ ... pem-detail

They also have the P4 Sprint Run in PD#1, for a thousand Kc less

https://www.nuz.cz/eshop/zaviraci-noze/ ... ova-detail

It's a good shop, but their prices are usually high. Sometimes they have things I don't see elsewhere though.

[JoviAl]

I love a serrated fixed blade knife for outdoors work or a small serrated folder for EDC (or not so small - my P4 K390 SE is a favourite around the house). Compared to PE they definitely have their optimal arenas - I’d pick a PE blade for bushcraft any day for example, but SE makes a brilliant chop and drop tool. Horses for courses.

[yablanowitz]

I think the decline (general, not Spyderco) in serrations is due to poorly done done serrations on so many. I agree that I used to see more combination edges on the market. For a few years, it seemed like every knife I saw was combo edge, and a lot of them were pretty worthless. Teeth too small to sharpen, too pointed to cut without snagging, steel so soft the points bent on the first use or so hard they snapped off. I think Joe Average started avoiding them after a while, so they have become less prevalent. Far easier to drop the idea than make improvements so it works.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I think the decline (general, not Spyderco) in serrations is due to poorly done done serrations on so many. I agree that I used to see more combination edges on the market. For a few years, it seemed like every knife I saw was combo edge, and a lot of them were pretty worthless. Teeth too small to sharpen, too pointed to cut without snagging, steel so soft the points bent on the first use or so hard they snapped off. I think Joe Average started avoiding them after a while, so they have become less prevalent. Far easier to drop the idea than make improvements so it works.

I am glad you mentioned this.
A big problem I have with many NON Spyderco serrated edges are exactly that:

Either serrations that are too pointy and they snag/catch on the material, or, they are too shallow and cut but not well enough.

Quality made Triple Point Serrations made by Spyderco perfectly cut well. My next big issue is to learn to sharpen serrations based on some of the tutorials on the forum here.

[Cletus]

I tested an Ayoob Cruwear serrated on my BESS tester and it was the first factory knife I had ever tested that cut below 100 grams. Impressive! So many times I found myself hanging with one hand hold high up in the air on top of slippery equipment with a busted hydraulic line that had to be cut in order to break it loose to take it off. In those days a really hard and sharp D2 blade would barely do the job and needed sharpening after going through the steel braiding. How I wish I had known about Spyderco's serrations back then!

[Wartstein]

I think the decline (general, not Spyderco) in serrations is due to poorly done done serrations on so many. I agree that I used to see more combination edges on the market. For a few years, it seemed like every knife I saw was combo edge, and a lot of them were pretty worthless. Teeth too small to sharpen, too pointed to cut without snagging, steel so soft the points bent on the first use or so hard they snapped off. I think Joe Average started avoiding them after a while, so they have become less prevalent. Far easier to drop the idea than make improvements so it works.

Perfectly said. The appreciation of serrations definitely suffers substantially from the many badly made ones out there. Even some Spydercos still have though not "bad" serrations, so still such made in a way that they are more specialized and not of the "better PE" type.

Add to that that many still believe the myths "serrations are hard to sharpen" and "serrations are generally only good for fibrous man made material".

I am certain: In a fantasy scenario where everyone would use a knife for the first time and know nothing at all about edge types and you´d give folks let´s say an Endela SE and an Endela PE as they come out of the box to try out on various tasks: A majority would prefer the performance of the SE version. And later on appreciate the clearly longer edge holding.

I have high respect for vivi and his approach of coarse and acute angled PE edges - but if we´re talking about the many knife users who just want the best performance out of the box and perhaps are not really able or willing to play with angles and grits: (Good!) SE offers superior cutting performance in at least many tasks out of the box compared to PE...

Just my 2c of course, but based on a lot of experience with both PE and SE in real use.

[Wartstein]

I love a serrated fixed blade knife for outdoors work or a small serrated folder for EDC (or not so small - my P4 K390 SE is a favourite around the house). Compared to PE they definitely have their optimal arenas - I’d pick a PE blade for bushcraft any day for example, but SE makes a brilliant chop and drop tool. Horses for courses.

Hi Al,

I´d be interested in your personal differentiation between "outdoors work" (where you like a serrated fixed blade) and "bushcraft" (where you´d pick PE).

As I see things I am probably actually with you:

I do like and prefer my serrated folders in "rougher" outdoor work: Cutting twigs, quickly making rough notches or pointy sticks (since SE bites deeper due to the steep chisel grind), actually even for feathersticks (SE tends to make finer ones in my use) and so on.

BUT: More, let´s say "fine" bushcraft, like detailled, precise carving or also things like batoning are some of the few areas where I still think PE is better...

[Evil D]

I don't think I'd choose serrations for Bushcraft but if you found yourself stuck with nothing else it's still entirely possible to get by, but it'll really depend on the serrations pattern you have. Shiny footprints and all that, but you just couldn't do this as well with serrations from Microtech or Cold Steel.

[Wartstein]

I don't think I'd choose serrations for Bushcraft but if you found yourself stuck with nothing else it's still entirely possible to get by.....

Yes, as said, real Bush-CRAFT, so detailled, "nice" woodwork and the like: Definitely PE:

But as your vid shows: For quickly just removing some wood, making a crude pointy stick or some feathersticks:
Spydieedge works well, for me even a bit better or at least quicker than Spyderco out-of-the-box PE (mostly probably due to the more acute incl. angle of SE)..

But again: For a nice, true Bushcraft (fixed..) blade: PE and ideally scandi grind all day!

[Evil D]

I don't think I'd choose serrations for Bushcraft but if you found yourself stuck with nothing else it's still entirely possible to get by.....

Yes, as said, real Bush-CRAFT, so detailled, "nice" woodwork and the like: Definitely PE:

But as your vid shows: For quickly just removing some wood, making a crude pointy stick or some feathersticks:
Spydieedge works well, for me even a bit better or at least quicker than Spyderco out-of-the-box PE (mostly probably due to the more acute incl. angle of SE)..

But again: For a nice, true Bushcraft (fixed..) blade: PE and ideally scandi grind all day!

Right, are we carving figurines or building a shelter to keep dry in? The biggest reason I'd rather have plain edge in this scenario is because improvised sharpening is going to be easier, but I'm going to figure out how to fracture a rock and get a sharp edge that'll get in there and sharpen the serrations enough to get by. This whole topic is a huge rabbit hole anyway, if anyone has watched the Alone TV show you'd see that a knife is oftentimes no more than the blade on a multitool, and the whole concept of Bushcraft with a knife is really more like a hobby than a real world skill, otherwise you'd see the winners doing it with just a knife.

[BeggarSo]

I like the Spydie edge and it punches way above its weight in smaller blades Para3 and Delica seem to really benifit from them moreso than the PM 2 SE and Military. All of which I own.

I like The PS edge on the Mitary the best for larger blades.

[elena86]

I shall not allow this to happen Most people are just too lazy or have preconceived ideas when it comes to dealing(mostly sharpening) with serrations on a blade. Being a fan of old school spyderedge (with spiked aggressive teeth) I understand why those type of serrations who tend to grab the material are a drawback for many but the benefits are there if you are able to keep those teeth at peak sharpness. Yes, much work is involved but what you gain is tremendous cutting power. Anyway, my mantra is : a spyderedge is able to outcut a plain edge in almost any format but not the other way around. I could “do things” with my Jumpmaster that would make any plain edge to blush

[JoviAl]

I love a serrated fixed blade knife for outdoors work or a small serrated folder for EDC (or not so small - my P4 K390 SE is a favourite around the house). Compared to PE they definitely have their optimal arenas - I’d pick a PE blade for bushcraft any day for example, but SE makes a brilliant chop and drop tool. Horses for courses.

Hi Al,

I´d be interested in your personal differentiation between "outdoors work" (where you like a serrated fixed blade) and "bushcraft" (where you´d pick PE).

As I see things I am probably actually with you:

I do like and prefer my serrated folders in "rougher" outdoor work: Cutting twigs, quickly making rough notches or pointy sticks (since SE bites deeper due to the steep chisel grind), actually even for feathersticks (SE tends to make finer ones in my use) and so on.

BUT: More, let´s say "fine" bushcraft, like detailled, precise carving or also things like batoning are some of the few areas where I still think PE is better...

Hi buddy!
For outdoors work I’m normally hacking at green plants between thumb and thigh thickness, shredding them into small bits for chop and drop green mulching to nourish the soil biome and in turn support the growth of everything else around the sacrificial plants. For bushcraft I am usually trying to do something carefully and deliberately, rather than thrashing the snot out of something.

Essentially -
being indiscriminate = prefer SE
being careful/neat = prefer PE

I can get by with a SE fixed blade 99% of the time, but when I want neatness (or to cut fabric/carboard) I prefer PE. Plus I like knives, and this gives me the thinly veiled excuse to buy both sorts in abundance

[Evil D]

Neatness in cutting is also really dependant on what you're cutting and how. I've been wrapping Christmas gifts for 2 weeks now and I cut all the paper with my SE Bodacious and I get cleaner cuts than you'd get with scissors. My plain edge will also cut just fine but they require that I hold the blade at more of an angle than I do with serrations. It's not the end of the world but the point is that serrations don't just mangle the heck out of the paper.