China

[Naperville]

Bye bye thread!

lol, yes, let's please drop the politics. There are plenty of other places to debate these things.

Some of you act like world events are not intertwined with corporate decisions. What some of you call politics is just every day life and the ongoing enterprise known as running a hegemonic power.

Read my last post.

[Scandi Grind]

Some of you act like world events are not intertwined with corporate decisions. What some of you call politics is just every day life and the ongoing enterprise known as running a hegemonic power.

Politics are intertwined with much of normal life, in fact I have been known to say that "everything is politics," but I think some of your comments are straying from the point of why this conversation was started. A little politics is unavoidable here for sure, but we should make an effort to stay on topic. This has been an interesting thread, let's keep it tempered and keep it going.

[olditguy]

The average tariff on US exports was less than 2% before the tariff war.

The median tariff rate worldwide is currently 2.6%. The US tariff rate is 1.5%, which remains one of the lowest in the world. If you remember, in 2018, all non-sanctioned countries were offered a zero tariff deal where if they’d drop their tariffs against the US, than we wouldn’t impose tariffs against those countries or would drop those already imposed. Those countries didn't accept the deal. So it's fairly obvious who is/was trying to take advantage of who here.

You seem to be referring to the tariff rate on US imports, but your number is not current. I'm talking about the rate on US exports imposed by other countries, which is miniscule compared to what we now impose on them. Even worse, there is an inverse correlation between how much a country tariffs us vs how much we currently tariff that country.

https://www.cato.org/blog/please-stop-c ... al-tariffs

Are you located in China? China is waging an economic war against The West. Unless YOU want to be enslaved by the CCP, I'd change your tune.

I just read that China has given $230 billion in government subsidies since 2009 to Chinese EV manufacturers.

China is in the WTO and the rest of the WTO is competing against a country's assets, not small little EV manufacturers.

I'm sorry, but this was totally uncalled for.

[Mushroom]

Bye bye thread!

lol, yes, let's please drop the politics. There are plenty of other places to debate these things.

Some of you act like world events are not intertwined with corporate decisions. What some of you call politics is just every day life and the ongoing enterprise known as running a hegemonic power.

Read my last post.

What part of "...avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible." do you not understand? Sal asked everyone to avoid politics and your posts consistently keep going directly against that. You went off on the tangent about employment and STEM that needed to be addressed too. How many times do your posts need to be removed for you to take the hint? We're going on at least three times in this thread alone, already.

Your last post that you're pointing to is just proof that you're not staying on track with the subject as it relates to Spyderco. It is an article about General Motor’s auto supply chain, not Spyderco, not knives, not anything remotely related to this discussion. And you think WE are the ones missing something here?

Back to knives…again!

I know that their was talk about ‘Spyderco no longer being a leader’ and I don’t think that statement is true. But I will make the argument that at least their the Chinese knife market, it is a tough one to be a leader and not be completely absorbed in only that market. The release cycle alone would completely absorb all manufacturing and R&D energy.

When I think of ‘market leaders’ from that industry sector, I think of brands like Civivi, Kunwu amd Vosteed.

But I don’t think Spyderco needs to be the market leader here. While I do think they need to up the game a bit with materials and options (like better steels and the compression lock), having just a few extremely high quality, competitive offerings will ensure that they stay relevant to people looking for a great budget option without feeling the need to be king of the hill in the Chinese knife rat race.

That is, until they find a way to permanently manufacture their value knives in places other than China (like the Chicago model) because I still believe that having even some of their knives made there is a short term gain, long term loss.

When I think of the market leaders that I associate with Chinese produced knives, I think of brands like Kershaw, CRKT, Boker.

When I see one of their knives, 99.9% of the time, I am expecting it to be made in China. That's the reputation they have. Spyderco is different though.

Personally, I actually agree with the statement that Spyderco is not an industry leader - for Chinese made knives - and for that I am glad. Their reputation is still very much alive as a proud American company and I would hate to see that change. In many other regards, I still consider Spyderco to be the foremost industry leader.

To maintain their current reputation, I would caution them against making too many models in China. It is still surprising to me when we see new Spyderco models coming out of China, because of how few there have been over the years. I think thats a good thing.

Making some models in China is understandable and doesn't really hurt their reputation but in my opinion, the Chinese made models need to remain "budget line" oriented models. I think it will start to negatively affect their reputation if their lineups in all price ranges are intermixed with Chinese made models. The price for Spydercos Chinese made knives should never be compete with their high end models from other countries, in my opinion.

I wonder if shorter lifespans for new models would help alleviate production capacity or make it worse? Just thinking it could be possible solution to stay out of China while still keeping the catalog relatively fresh.

[Red Leader]

Personally, I actually agree with the statement that Spyderco is not an industry leader - for Chinese made knives - and for that I am glad. Their reputation is still very much alive as a proud American company and I would hate to see that change. In many other regards, I still consider Spyderco to be the foremost industry leader.

This is a better way of saying what I meant. I also don’t want them to be the ‘kings of the Chinese knives’ hah that sounds terrible. I had mentioned in an earlier post about basically an import version of their Para 3, and I guess the idea I was going with was to take what may be arguable one of their most popular models, make it a value model, but change it just slightly so that once people try it, it still functions as a gateway to their better offerings…sort of gives them a taste to where they really like it, but they end up wanting the ‘real thing’ if that makes sense. The other benefit would be that they wouldn’t have to constantly keep up with all the new designs, just have a really solid foundation and the design will last longer. A value line Para 3 w/ 14c28n and maybe a slightly different shaped opening hole to differentiate it and call it good. Have maybe 3-4 models. And also try to find a way to get them made outside of China. I’ve mentioned my daughter’s $42 Chicago…made in Taiwan. Let’s do more of that.

I also think there are too many Chinese Spyderco offerings, especially when considering the Byrd line. I’ve seen numerous posts about them (Spyderco) being slammed and having to put some really interesting and/or exciting projects on the backburner and I can’t help but think what could be if some of the time and energy that went into all these value folders instead were to go into some other cool projects, like the damasteel UKPK, the 3.5 Native, the 3.5 Chaparral, etc.

[TomH]

I appreciate that Spyderco makes knives in many countries...including China. I have owned, at one time or another, a number of Spydercos from China. However, I am glad that most Spydercos are not made there. For so many products the only option is "Made in China". With quality knives, fortunately, there are other options.

[ykspydiefan]

Bye bye thread!

lol, yes, let's please drop the politics. There are plenty of other places to debate these things.

Some of you act like world events are not intertwined with corporate decisions. What some of you call politics is just every day life and the ongoing enterprise known as running a hegemonic power.

Read my last post.

The world is intertwined. I googled, "do Americans or Chinese pay more for healthcare?" Turns out, Americans pay %40 more per person than any other country and have the lowest life expectancy.

Google, "has America or China done more to reduce poverty?" You may be surprised...

The thing that surprises me most is how one mouth of USA screams about how USA is the best at everything, and the other mouth can cry that bullies are taking advantage of them. The Red fear and terror is not surprising as many people around the world excel at "othering" people vs humanizing.

Why I have stuck around Spyderco? Because they really went to China and really tried to work with "People" and tried to make a good product and deliver it to us.

For the record, both countries do bad things. Both do good things, all countries are like this. I am still disappointed that my opinion is censored while political opinions like, "regime change" continues to be supported and promoted.

Thank you to the forumites that do take the time to counter politics that they do not personally believe in.

[ykspydiefan]

I see a conflict between the mind of a Colonizer vs the Indigenous mind. USA is minded by Colonizers, China is minded by Indigenous.

From google, from a historical and genetic perspective... the Han have lived along the Yellow River for "thousands" of years.

The point is, many countries have stepped into China and now feel like they are not able to gain the advantages that they have in comparison to doing business in other countries(colonized countries). China has been focused on China for a long time.

Per google, USA became USA in 1774. 250 years versus 2000+ years of experience. I see the difference between screaming teenagers and seniors keeping their heads focused.

Western nations thought they could go to China and take advantage of cheaper labour, more buying power when building infrastructure, lower environmental standards, and other advantages that one would pay more for in Canada for example.

Now, we find out how much those advantages cost. Also, we are realizing what advantages China gained on the deal.

Discussing this without politics may include taking responsibility for ones decisions and changing from with in, or changing what one control.

Trying to change China has not really worked. Ever...

[Mushroom]

Can we discuss religion next? Who wants to go first?

[Infinite Zero]

Can we discuss religion next? Who wants to go first?

You sir, win the thread.

[RyanY]

Can we discuss religion next? Who wants to go first?

Got a chuckle out of me on that reply. I’ll humor what I know is sarcasm.

I was a full time missionary for about 20% of my adult life so far. I personally enjoy discussing religion with anyone interested. I also know this isn’t the place for it, just like it isn’t the place for politics.

I’m also working on my Master’s in political analysis, so I’m no stranger to those conversations either. This still isn’t the place for it. It doesn’t answer the original question.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Can we discuss religion next? Who wants to go first?

Got a chuckle out of me on that reply. I’ll humor what I know is sarcasm.

I was a full time missionary for about 20% of my adult life so far. I personally enjoy discussing religion with anyone interested. I also know this isn’t the place for it, just like it isn’t the place for politics.

I’m also working on my Master’s in political analysis, so I’m no stranger to those conversations either. This still isn’t the place for it. It doesn’t answer the original question.

What would you like to see in a Spyderco budget knife?

[James Y]

Back to knives ...

The only 3 knives I own that were made in China are an old Byrd hawkbill; a J.A. Henckels International santoku (which is good, but I haven't used it since I got my Victorinox santoku); and a Messermeister picnic knife that came in its own sheath, which I got for free with a purchase at a B&M knife shop many years ago. Those are all the China-made knives I intend to own.

Since then, I know there are very high-quality knives made in China, but I simply prefer not to buy them. I'm just not interested.

Spyderco having a budget line made there is fine, and hopefully a gateway to people buying other models made in Golden, Seki, and Taichung. And even Maniago (I don't own any Italian-made knives, so I am not sure about their quality).

As has been mentioned by others, I wonder if more of the budget models could be manufactured in Taiwan. Maybe not in the Taichung factory, if that is more for higher-end models. But perhaps by another Taiwan-based manufacturer?

Jim

[mikey177]

^ I have a Spyderco Cat and Ronin 2 from their other factory in Taiwan. The Ronin 2 is marked Taipei, Taiwan but the Cat is only marked Taiwan.

The quality is okay. I hope we will see more models coming from this factory in the future.

[Red Leader]

Welp, add another to the list of Chinese value knives that are now doing a compression-style ('top liner lock'), this time CJRB. They also have a top frame lock, which is interesting.

The main issue here of course is that every single major value player is going to be coming out with this lock, which will only increase the discrepancy between these budget knives with the 'new innovative locking mechanism' and Spyderco's value offerings, which will cause them to look more antiquated. The interesting thing is that the top liner ala compression lock is touted as a safer option than the liner lock since it keeps your finger out of the path of the blade. However right now, with companies rushing to come out with their own version, they are kinda skimping on a lot of the R&D and testing to ensure a properly executed version of this lock. Several models from various companies have been having locks fail, including some that I have mentioned. Some people won't care, as they just want the latest and greatest. But the buttons on a lot of these knives stand very proud, and will less lockbar tension, the blades have been getting released under mild pressure and accidental release of the buttons, like in people's pockets.

The only variants of Spyderco's button compression locks feature a double detent which keeps the blade from being released by button tension alone.

It could be a really cool opportunity for the originator of the original compression lock and button compression lock to release the safest version of the lock on a value folder. I think that as this becomes the new standard, Spyderco needs to step up if they want to stay in this market.

[jwesley235]

USA is minded by Colonizers, China is minded by Indigenous.

Citation Needed.

[Snacktime]

Spyderco hasn't embraced the current influencer marketing trend. While the Youtube home shopping network is dominated by newer brands and savvy marketing. I have been inundated with top liner lock knives this last week since Kunwu dropped their new line. Multiple knife brands are dropping product for the holiday season and right in my face.

@Sal you know that a YouTube marketing extends all the way to my NFL Ticket subscription. Seems silly but wife literally asked if I wanted the Civivi knife flashing across the screen during a football game. I even got offroad light commercial during the world series that I had watched a video of earlier in the day.

[Naperville]

Bye bye thread!

lol, yes, let's please drop the politics. There are plenty of other places to debate these things.

Some of you act like world events are not intertwined with corporate decisions. What some of you call politics is just every day life and the ongoing enterprise known as running a hegemonic power.

Read my last post.

The world is intertwined. I googled, "do Americans or Chinese pay more for healthcare?" Turns out, Americans pay %40 more per person than any other country and have the lowest life expectancy.

Google, "has America or China done more to reduce poverty?" You may be surprised...

The thing that surprises me most is how one mouth of USA screams about how USA is the best at everything, and the other mouth can cry that bullies are taking advantage of them. The Red fear and terror is not surprising as many people around the world excel at "othering" people vs humanizing.

Why I have stuck around Spyderco? Because they really went to China and really tried to work with "People" and tried to make a good product and deliver it to us.

For the record, both countries do bad things. Both do good things, all countries are like this. I am still disappointed that my opinion is censored while political opinions like, "regime change" continues to be supported and promoted.

Thank you to the forumites that do take the time to counter politics that they do not personally believe in.

The difference between China's CCP medical care and the US system is that in the US, you get to keep your kidneys.

But I do agree, "For the record, both countries do bad things." The FBI in the US does not believe in the 1st Amendment either. I complained twice about getting ripped off for $35,000 by an employer in Silicon Valley (PPD) in 2002, and the FBI called me in and for more than an hour screamed at me and threw me around. Funny. PPD had 100% of their data stolen by the Director of Bioinformatics who was Chinese and sent all of it to China. I caught him, and he was terminated. Came back and shot and killed the VP of the business unit.

China and the US are nothing alike, but one I approve of a bit more. They did not take my kidney when I complained about PPD.

[Naperville]

I see a conflict between the mind of a Colonizer vs the Indigenous mind. USA is minded by Colonizers, China is minded by Indigenous.

From google, from a historical and genetic perspective... the Han have lived along the Yellow River for "thousands" of years.

The point is, many countries have stepped into China and now feel like they are not able to gain the advantages that they have in comparison to doing business in other countries(colonized countries). China has been focused on China for a long time.

Per google, USA became USA in 1774. 250 years versus 2000+ years of experience. I see the difference between screaming teenagers and seniors keeping their heads focused.

Western nations thought they could go to China and take advantage of cheaper labour, more buying power when building infrastructure, lower environmental standards, and other advantages that one would pay more for in Canada for example.

Now, we find out how much those advantages cost. Also, we are realizing what advantages China gained on the deal.

Discussing this without politics may include taking responsibility for ones decisions and changing from with in, or changing what one control.

Trying to change China has not really worked. Ever...

75% plus of China are territories that they have taken over, Tibet is one example.

[Mushroom]