Blade to Handle Efficiency?

[Manixguy@1994]

Just because I like something doesn't mean it's wrong if the next guy doesn't like it.

No! This is the interwebs and if you just listen to me, you'll see the error of your ways.


The cool thing about Spyderco is that while maintaining their basic styling, they make a wide range of knives in a wide range of steels, with a wide range of locks. There's something for everyone.

Great point and well said in last two sentences. I feel the same way , if a model doesn’t appeal to me I move on to where my comfort zone is and never worry about it . MG2

[Michael Janich]

When I designed the original Yojimbo about 25 years ago, I purposely put a 3-inch blade in a handle that would accommodate something longer. The idea was that the handle would still fit larger hands and provide a striking point at the butt, yet the blade would be legal to carry on a plane even with (then) heightened security measures in place. FAA rules at the time allowed a 4-inch blade during normal security status, and 3-inch during heightened.

Although I later disabused myself of the value of the closed knife as a striking tool, I still believe strongly in the purposeful pairing of a shorter blade with a longer handle.

The original Yojimbo was not particularly successful--except among those who embraced MBC and saw it in action in "Pork Man" cutting tests. Years later, the Kahr Arms Delica was based on the JanDelica--a "snubby" Delica that I was grinding for my MBC students who worked in U.S. Federal buildings or those who lived/worked in Chicago and Boston. Its relative lack of success was due more to the "economic mismatch" of having a gun company sell a knife based on gun-based discount margins.

Perhaps both were concepts--and internet arguments--ahead of their time.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Bill1170]

The classic example of big handle plus small blade in a pocketable knife is the construction utility knife with retractable blade carrier and replaceable blades. These have long been popular for rough use. The big handle gives excellent power and control, and doubles as storage for spare blades. These are inexpensive and appeal to users who need a sharp blade that can be abused and quickly replaced when it is dull.

Higher-end folding knives like Spyderco makes are a different market segment, and it’s interesting how attempts to blend the two segments have failed to gain traction.

[Bolster]

Agree with the value of big-handle-short-blade knives, even though I'm a huge fan of the opposite. It depends on the use one has in mind. For work, I like a big-handle-short-blade, which gives lots of control. For backpacking and EDC pocket carry, the opposite. I want maximum edge (since I'm not carrying sharpening stones, and may blunt part of it) and compact handle for carry comfort.

It just depends on intended use. (This post written by the owner of TWO original smurf-killer Yojimbos.)

Interestingly, the Yojumbo (based on the ratios) isn't really a big-handle-short-blade knife anymore. It's edge to closed ratio is .74, which puts it well into the "efficient" range for size ratio.

[raygixxer89]

When I designed the original Yojimbo about 25 years ago, I purposely put a 3-inch blade in a handle that would accommodate something longer. The idea was that the handle would still fit larger hands and provide a striking point at the butt, yet the blade would be legal to carry on a plane even with (then) heightened security measures in place. FAA rules at the time allowed a 4-inch blade during normal security status, and 3-inch during heightened.

Although I later disabused myself of the value of the closed knife as a striking tool, I still believe strongly in the purposeful pairing of a shorter blade with a longer handle.

The original Yojimbo was not particularly successful--except among those who embraced MBC and saw it in action in "Pork Man" cutting tests. Years later, the Kahr Arms Delica was based on the JanDelica--a "snubby" Delica that I was grinding for my MBC students who worked in U.S. Federal buildings or those who lived/worked in Chicago and Boston. Its relative lack of success was due more to the "economic mismatch" of having a gun company sell a knife based on gun-based discount margins.

Perhaps both were concepts--and internet arguments--ahead of their time.

Stay safe,

Mike

Kahr Arms Delica? I'll need to find one. It would pair nicely with my MK9 Elite 03

[Wartstein]

.....Personally it's not a deal breaker, but I still like seeing as much blade/edge squeezed into a design as possible. I don't have to live by any length laws so for me there's no reason not to want as much as possible.

Pretty much how I feel too.

I always do find more blade/edge more versatile and useful in a general EDC folder, but am less concerned with the perfect blade-to-handle ratio than I was in the past.

Discussed before, but the models where I still not fully get Spydercos approach are Rockjumper and Leafjumper:

On both the blades are OVER 3" long anyway (3.08 resp. 3.09) and thus already exceed that legal limit.
But still not handle filling, and they could offer a few mm more of blade without "making the legal situation worse" (so still not at all reach the "next" 3.5" limit)
Offer as much blade as possible would have made sense especially since the Rockjumper was announced, well, as a model that explicitly had the goal "to pack as much cutting edge as possible in its pocket friendly size" (https://mailchi.mp/spyderco/spyderco-by ... ember-2020)

Very sadly not too relevant anymore anyway... both discontinued...

[Doc Dan]

The one thing that sold me on Spyderco was a larger handle to fit my large hand and a blade at the required length.

[zhyla]

You sometimes see reviewers rate knives on blade to handle ratio. I think this is mostly misguided. A good design is a good design.

On bigger knives the ratio starts to matter. Nobody wants a two handed folder.

[Michal O]

This is my problem with some models. Para 3, PM2 has space for 3 mm more, Lil Temperance 3 too. Endela for example has worse handle to blade ratio than Endura, and Endura has it worse than Police 4. I guess it's because local laws about knives.

[Paul Ardbeg]

Maximizing blade length is not something I care a lot about. I do like being able to use a smaller blade but with a big enough handle for my hands. I also find that a few Youtubers started mentioning this years ago and it became "A thing". The Para 3 or Dice are good examples of "terrible" blade to handle ratio, still they are great designs in my book.

[Michael Janich]

The opinions of most "reviewers" and Youtubers are irrelevant. I recently wrote an article for TacticalKnives.com (the digital resurrection of the old Tactical Knives magazine). The editor asked me to interview the knife's "designer." In response to my questions, the "designer," a prolific social media presence, preferred to be considered a "content creator" rather than a "reviewer" or "designer." I switched my focus and concentrated on the actual maker, who actually understands knives.

Stay safe,

Mike

[vivi]

The opinions of most "reviewers" and Youtubers are irrelevant. I recently wrote an article for TacticalKnives.com (the digital resurrection of the old Tactical Knives magazine). The editor asked me to interview the knife's "designer." In response to my questions, the "designer," a prolific social media presence, preferred to be considered a "content creator" rather than a "reviewer" or "designer." I switched my focus and concentrated on the actual maker, who actually understands knives.

Stay safe,

Mike

well said. I almost never look up knife videos on youtube. they're pretty worthless most the time. I miss 10-15 years ago when people were more likely to make videos to be informative rather than generate engagement and $$.

[Red Leader]

This is my problem with some models. Para 3, PM2 has space for 3 mm more, Lil Temperance 3 too. Endela for example has worse handle to blade ratio than Endura, and Endura has it worse than Police 4. I guess it's because local laws about knives.

I’m usually the same, but some of that gap is so that people don’t cut themselves in the palm of their hand with the blade tip being too close to the butt of the knife. My son got tagged by a Benchmade Narrows a few days ago because the blade tip starts protruding halfway through the butt of the knife because it is angled, and it allowed him to get the meat of his palm further up. It is a design flaw in that particular rendition.


But given that it is a liability game, i do think that some (many?) designers have to account for the lowest comment denominator when designing. That is not a slight on normal people, just that normal folks are not going to be master knife handlers or anything.


The enthusiast crowd is a bit different. I have a custom Manix 2 that has a blade that sits barely inside the end point of the knife. Maximum efficiency. I have also been bit by it a couple of times in the palm of my hand while closing and have now adjusted. No big deal. It’s great. But what is ‘no big deal’ to me might be ‘this knife cut me! It’s dangerous!!’ to the next person.


It’s like custom bicycles - production bikes have to be made for someone at 300lbs and 150lbs, they don’t know whose riding it, whereas a custom made ride is going to be tailored to you and tour weight and can offer a much more lively riding experience. You couldn’t offer it as a production model. I think the higher performance something becomes, the less applicable it makes it to all. Given that Spyderco leans toward high performance, I’m sure that is a tightrope to try and walk at times.

[Fastidiotus]

Never really been a concern for me. Being comfortable in the hand has pretty much become my main priority. Whether or not I'm sort a few mm of blade isn't something I ever notice in use.

I do really love the Sage though. I guess when I get to that point I expose the tip I'll hit it with a belt sander really quick and give it a little Delica drop point.

This would all be avoided though if Spyderco did the prudent thing. Filed for unemployment, got a job at Enterprise Rent a Car, and then started started making a Spy27 Sage SE with a Cricket style recurve blade.

[yablanowitz]

Just out of curiosity, where does a knife with 4 3/8" handle and 7 1/8" of cutting edge fall on your "efficiency scale"?

It's called a large stockman if you're curious.

[vivi]

one thing that's interesting to me...

is that people are bothered by a blade not being 2-3mm longer where it could based on how it sits in the handle...

but don't care that a lot of designs could offer another ~15mm of cutting edge,or more, by eliminating the index choil.



On a knife that can easily be fully gripped without the index choil it seems odd to me to be worried about 2-3mm and ignore 15-20mm.

I'm not super hung up on the issue either way. I'll take a full sized handle and an Endura sized blade over a medium sized handle (Endura blade length is the smallest I carry). That said, I'd buy a Police, Military or Manix XL with no choil.

The temperance 2 is basically a choil free Manix XXL, and I have never wished for an index choil while using it.



I don't really get the appeal of choking up on such small, easy to control knives. They make sense on knives like a Dragonfly to me, but not full sized folders and fixed blades. Both these knives work fine for precision cuts and they're bigger than just about every folder Spyderco has made to date.

[Actinolite]

On larger knives, I never needed or wanted a finger choil. But on small knives, I find them indispensable. In my hands, it gives me the opportunity to have a large enough handle for comfort and control, which is not an issue with a larger knife.

So I'm less concerned with handle/blade efficiency than I am with handle comfort/control with small knives. Example:

[Actinolite]

Oops. Wrong keys...
Anyway, my favorite small knife for feel and to carry is a Lil Native. The blade is long enough, and the handle has near perfect length and thickness for me. My only objection is the blade stock thickness, which seems excessive for such a small knife. I've been carrying a Chaparral LW SE for most of this year because the blade is excellent while the handle is acceptable. I'm looking forward to the Lil Native LW SE. Perhaps it will be the perfect combination of features for me.

[navin johnson]

Understanding in general that a longer blade stays sharp longer because there is more edge……

I can’t come up with an example of when two or 3 mm kept me from doing what I needed to do with a knife.

[ladybug93]

i like to carry the largest blade i'm legally allowed to carry. as far as the handle is concerned, i only care that it's comfortable, not too big in the pocket (not sure spyderco even makes something that is too big for my pockets), and that it safely covers the blade when closed.

sometimes, i need to carry a small blade. i'd prefer that small blade not always have to be in a three-finger handle. seems pretty obvious to me.

the bottom line is it makes sense to have knives around 2.5", 3", 3.5", and 4" with varying handle sizes, like spyderco does. so, it might come as no surprise that the manix is my favorite knife design of all time. the dimensions are all perfect for me.