Blade to Handle Efficiency?

[VelaniBriar]

I was recently comparing my chaparrals with my Sage 5 LW and other models. One thing I have always enjoyed about the chaparral is how space efficient it is. It’s absolutely what you need and nothing else.

On the Sage 5 (and many other models), is there a reason the cutting edge does not extend further down into the handle or the point not extend further out to maximize the extra 1/4” of blade length? Is this a legal thing to not go over a certain blade length?

On my Sage 5 LW (one of my favorite knives of all time) the blade will extend above the handle after maybe 20 sharpenings over the next 5 years. At that time I will need to dremel the knife so that it can drop further to hit the stop pin. But this will then make the hole sit further into the scales causing it to be occluded.

If the blade extended further into the handle (fatter) or toward the end of the handle (longer) this would not be a problem. Instead, it would give slightly more cutting length. This is a common choice on many Spyderco designs. Does anyone know if there is a reason for this?

[elena86]

You are right. They could have squeezed more cutting edge into the handle in most cases. Why don’t they do it … your guess is as good as mine. I only wish at least the most loved and popular Delica had a few mm of extra cutting edge not to mention the Manix or the PM2.

[Danke]

I just looked at my Sage 2. When closed there's maybe 1mm of room to play with, and if I really forced my finger against it I could touch the tip. Not sure where any extra blade could go without enlarging the handle.

In my opinion a great way to pack more cutting edge into reduced real estate is serrations. They'll bring a lot to the party.

And sidebar, for anyone worried about snagging the tip when closed, shout out for the sheepsfoot.

[Evil D]

This is sure to become a can of worms debate. Personally it's not a deal breaker, but I still like seeing as much blade/edge squeezed into a design as possible. I don't have to live by any length laws so for me there's no reason not to want as much as possible.

[BornIn1500]

At that time I will need to dremel the knife so that it can drop further to hit the stop pin. But this will then make the hole sit further into the scales causing it to be occluded.

It's more complicated than that. On a compression lock, there is a detent ball on the lockbar and a detent hole in the blade that it fits into when the blade is closed. Forget the dremel.

[p_atrick]

I see all this talk about blade to handle ratio. I get it; in a perfect why would you not want to maximize the amount of usable edge for a given model? However, I live and work in an area that has a 2.5-inch limit on blades. In this case, I prefer an inefficient knife in this respect. Why? I've come to realize that I prefer comfort in hand a whole lot more than in the past. This might be sacrilege, but the Dragonfly just doesn't feel "right" in my hand. It's not a bad knife, but my hand wants more. For me, this is the perfect knife for in and around Boston.



Funny looking? Sure, I'll give you that, but I just really like it compared to other models with a 2.5-inch blade.

PS - For all my talk above, my daily carry at the office is my HAP40 Delica with custom scales. If I'm out and about I'll carry the Janlica.

[Bolster]

See:

viewtopic.php?p=1724733

People get really hot under the collar about this topic, or have in the past. Not sure why.

I think it must be because those who like a big, hand-filling handle with a relatively short blade consider it a slight against their favorite models?

I stopped calling them "efficiency ratios" because it upset too many people, and I'm not here to make people angry. Now I just call them "size and weight ratios." I try to publish an updated list every year or other, depending on how many new models come to market. And I usually get cat-calls for doing so. Goes with the territory. I'm deaf to it now.

[horzuff]

Maximizing blade in handle is one thing, but OP mentioned another problem - blade not being deep enough in the handle shortening the lifespan of the knife. And on the Sage 5 indeed lengthening the blade would put the tip in a place where the handle covers it more

[Evil D]

People get really hot under the collar about this topic, or have in the past. Not sure why.

I'm not sure why anyone cares what the next guy is doing. We all have our opinions and preferences, I have loads of them and if I got bent out of shape over the things people like that I dislike I wouldn't have time to use my knives anymore. Just because I like something doesn't mean it's wrong if the next guy doesn't like it. It's way less complicated than we make it.

[RustyIron]

Just because I like something doesn't mean it's wrong if the next guy doesn't like it.

No! This is the interwebs and if you just listen to me, you'll see the error of your ways.


The cool thing about Spyderco is that while maintaining their basic styling, they make a wide range of knives in a wide range of steels, with a wide range of locks. There's something for everyone.

[sal]

Hi VelaniBriar,

Welcome to our forum.

If we design a knife that is meeting a size requirement established by ordinance, say 3.0" blade, and we have to keep in mind that larger hands need a larger handle, why would we want to make the knife illegal to carry by adding 1/4" of blade length?

sal

[pinchyfisher]

I myself am more interested in maximizing sharpened edge for a given blade length by minimizing dead space/ricasso area- Polestar, Bodacious, Centofante 3 for example.

But even then, I recognize that some designs are better WITH a choil- Chaparral, Lil' Native.

[derangedhermit]

What is wanted in a blade under some set of circumstances may not match what the user would like in the way of a handle.

Spyderco could use (select or create) a lock design that allows for changing blades in a simple way - easier than disassembling the knife. Then they pick a customer-favorite handle shape from one of the (well-refined) existing models, and make them each in S,M,L. Say "small" fits blades up to 2.5", medium up to 3.25", large up to 4". Then they make blades that fit, in a range of sizes, shapes, steels, and lengths. You could then buy the handle that fits your hand best, and whatever blades in whatever steels, shapes, and sizes you wanted to be able to swap in that fit in that handle. Bonus points for a design that allows for different blade thicknesses. There would of course be some limitations on the blade shapes that could be used, but my guess is you could do a lot.

I often don't mind having a shorter blade, but I rarely need (or want) a knife with a handle too small for me to efficiently (and safely) use the blade. And I'd be willing to put more money into a very nice handle (or two) if I could use it with a lot of blades.

Spyderco already does some of this. The most popular designs get scaled in size, like the Delica/Endela/Endura, the Lil Native/Native/Chief, the Military/Para Military 2/ Para 3. Each size may get different blade shapes. But blades from the smaller models don't (I assume) fit in the larger handles, and none are designed to make changing blades a simple and fast job.

I'm not saying Spyderco should redesign any existing products. A lot of cutting tools have interchangeable blades / bits, and maybe there is room in the folding pocket knife market for the concept. Maybe it already exists?

[sal]

Hi Hermit,

Interesting concept. I can see some problems with liability, but I'll ponder your suggestions.

sal

[yablanowitz]

I've seen a lot of blade trader folders over the years, but I've never paid my hard-earned dollars for one. Never seen one I'd trust. But then, I don't mind a 3" blade in a 5" handle, either.

[derangedhermit]

I've seen a lot of blade trader folders over the years, but I've never paid my hard-earned dollars for one. Never seen one I'd trust. But then, I don't mind a 3" blade in a 5" handle, either.

If you did see one you thought you could trust, would you be interested?

[sal]

Hi Hermit,

I don't think it's a mater of trust. I think it's one of those things that's been tried many times in the past and it never gathered any traction. Probably the market for that concept is too small to support production?

I'm with Yab on this and have no interest in doing that myself with my knives.

sal

[BornIn1500]

Cold Steel explored that concept with the Click N Cut. It's very inexpensive and nobody talks about it. I assume it's impossible to have tight tolerances so the only category it makes sense in is with super cheap China knives... which is what Cold Steel is doing.

[sal]

There were a number of companies making a version. I think Blackie Collins might have been the first decades ago. I don't think it's a tolerance issue, as much as a lack of interest.

We've been asked many times of make Mules like that, even with a slip joint like the UK. Might requests are trying to save money.

sal

[standy99]

So many knives in the Spyderco line up I pick a knife I want for the job or occasion.

Never had an issue with a knife due to blade to handle dimensions.