Sailing, Navy, Safety

[scout]

I have been using knives in a maritime environment for many years ( mostly US Navy) I have found that any knife that has a sharpening coil or design accommodation for a lock bar lock will hook on many materials that need to be cut in an emergency.
This has prompted me to eliminate any knives with this feature from my on-deck use. Have any of you experienced this phenomenon? Are there any design features that are a no-go for you?
,scout

[zhyla]

Sharpening choil yes. It can catch on stuff.

[vivi]

I've experienced that issue. I try to avoid knives with sharpening choils. Tht's one of the things that initially drew me towards Spyderco, is how rarely they use them.

Also prefer no index choils, or gaps between the edge and handle like most benchmades.

[Wartstein]

Sharpening choils (notches) are a feature I just don´t get.

If there is anything I´d be close to "hating" on knives it´s exactly sharpening choils:

- There generally might be a short fraction right at the heel of a blade that is harder to sharpen and that section might thus be less sharp than the rest of the edge - but literally putting a huge "chip"(=sharpening choil) in the edge where otherwise just that "less sharp" section would be is beyond me.
- An "unsharp" short section is always better than a "chip"/sharpening notch, since the former does not snag on stuff
- Then: If not in a "conventional" way, one could still make that short section towards the heel "sharp" with a small file or whatever
- And last but not least: It is really easy to ADD a sharpening notch for those who want one - but REMOVING one is a different story...

So I am really glad that Spyderco generally has a "no sharpening choil" philosophy...

[Wartstein]

.... Are there any design features that are a no-go for you?

Can´t think of any real "no goes" right now (despite perhaps sharpening notches...), but still things I don´t like:

1.) Thick blade stock, especially combined with finer tips:

I never, ever found 3mm stock for larger ffg folders (Endura..) or 2mm for smaller ones (Chaparral) to be too thin / fragile and this despite I don´t shy away from beating on my folders.

So I don´t care for thicker blade stock, that inevitably introduces one variable that is less good for slicing.
IF I ever wanted thick stock: Then in a folder I´d deliberately do the most crazy lateral-forces-stuff with for whatever crazy reason: But THEN such a blade also would have to have a really stout tip, for in my experience this is the area most likely to snap.

Consequently folders with thick blade stock, but still a rather fine tip do not make too much sense to me personally

2.) Handles / finger choils that are too narrow in the index finger area

I more and more find that for the way I personally use and grip folders I want some "meat" / handle height under the index finger. Generally, but also in relation to the rest of the handle.

Handles with a deep recess for the index finger or too "deep" choils tend to give me kind of a "floating" feel when using the knife in harder tasks and by tendency I try to avoid those.

[Road Tripper]

I've come to dislike sharpening choils because of the potential for snagging material. None of the Spyderco knives in my rotation have them and I'm glad! I sharpen on either bench stones or a Sharpmaker.

I avoid frame locks, for a couple of reasons: I don't want to worry about pressure on the lock bar when opening the knife, and I also dislike that the lock state changes the handle shape.

These days, I largely steer clear of knives that don't have a thumb hole for opening, though I do have a couple of exceptions (flipper, thumb stud) in the collection.

[navin johnson]

Finger choils are a no go for me due to snagging also

[zhyla]

Finger choils are a no go for me due to snagging also

I don’t prefer finger schools unless it’s the only way to hold the knife. Chaparral good, Native Chief bad.

[Naperville]

Finger choils are a no go for me due to snagging also

I don’t prefer finger schools unless it’s the only way to hold the knife. Chaparral good, Native Chief bad.

I guess we need a Native Chief without finger-choils and sharpening notches. As long as they would be redesigning it, can we have another 1/2 an inch in blade length too?

[Chieftjs]

I retired from the Coast Guard 20 years ago last month and while I was always a knife guy I can't say I was a knife nerd. Shipboard carry for me was a Spyderco Rescue and I bought it because it was serrated, Orange, and called Rescue.

Now that I overthink stuff I carry a Para3 and stay away from boats.

[zhyla]

I guess we need a Native Chief without finger-choils and sharpening notches. As long as they would be redesigning it, can we have another 1/5 an inch in blade length too?

I think Spyderco has plenty of models these days.

The Rescue (or the Salt equivalent) seems just fine for this use case n

[aicolainen]

Over the years I've realized that there's not much point in having hard rules, while I have some general preferences there will usually be some kind of scenario or use case where a different approach makes sense.
That said I haven't ever been in a situation where I wished I had a sharpening choil, but the opposite has been true on multiple occasions, so I can only concur with the choir on this one.

As far as other safety features go, I've kind of settled on back locks for most of my use, but it's not a hard rule and I'll regularly mix in a healthy variation of other locks.

I also find myself wishing there were more offerings with very pronounced finger guards, on both folding and fixed blades. For most of my use I avoid them (or want them to be subdued as they mostly are), because they can easily get in the way. But there are some applications where a secure grip is among the most important priorities, and especially important is a grip that prevents the hand from sliding forward onto the sharpened edge.
I've experienced this in stressful situations before and it can pose significant health risk.

[Wartstein]

I don’t prefer finger schools unless it’s the only way to hold the knife. Chaparral good, Native Chief bad.

Yes, on the small Chap a finger choil is ingenious and actually mandatory for my handsize too.

But I am also at least ok with finger choils on larger knives (Chief, Stretch XL...) where the finger choil offers a second grip option, but the handle itself (behind the choil) is still long enough for a good four finger grip.

Said it before: Where a finger choil makes the least sense to me is on knives like the Native 5: If there was no finger choil the general/overall handle length would be long enough for a four finger grip AND no cutting edge length would be sacrificed ... as it is I end up with a knife where I pretty much have to use the choil for a good four finger grip plus a shortened edge...

[Wartstein]

Also (obviously) there is a big difference between sharpening choil and finger choil, generally, but also when it comes to snagging on stuff:

A sharpening choil makes no sense to me at all - just kind of a nuisance

With a finger choil though one at least can choke up on it and thus also prevent snagging.

And if we talk "safety" on a super nerdy level a finger choil is kind of a safety feature too:
- Should the lock for whatever reason fail or not fully engage (bulked up snow can lead to this for example) a finger choil will always keep the fingers safe from a closing blade, regardless if the knife is held with finger in the choil or behind it on the handle
- Also at least in theory there might be tasks where "hand far away from the edge" and having two guards in front of it could be beneficial (stabbing with slippery hand or whatever)

As said, rather theorizing here - personally I´ve always felt perfectly safe enough with knives like the Tenacious: No finger choil, and an accidentally closing blade most likely WOULD cut the fingers on the handle.

[zhyla]

But I am also at least ok with finger choils on larger knives (Chief, Stretch XL...) where the finger choil offers a second grip option,

The Chief with your index finger in the choil is laughable. Nearly 2 inches of handle sticking out of your palm. It doesn’t make any sense except that Native family has choils

[vivi]

But I am also at least ok with finger choils on larger knives (Chief, Stretch XL...) where the finger choil offers a second grip option,

The Chief with your index finger in the choil is laughable. Nearly 2 inches of handle sticking out of your palm. It doesn’t make any sense except that Native family has choils

what is it with knife people and thinking everyones hands are the same size?



I do agree with you that a choil free Native Chief (or Police, Manix XL, Military etc.) would be nice. I don't need to choke up on a 4" blade for better control - it's already a tiny feeling knife compared to my main work knife (10" chef knife).

[zhyla]

what is it with knife people and thinking everyones hands are the same size?

Geez, they should have named it the Native Vivi.

[Wartstein]

But I am also at least ok with finger choils on larger knives (Chief, Stretch XL...) where the finger choil offers a second grip option,

The Chief with your index finger in the choil is laughable. Nearly 2 inches of handle sticking out of your palm. It doesn’t make any sense except that Native family has choils

I´d not go so far to say that the Chiefs choil "does not make any sense" and that the only reason for it is "that Native family has choils"...

I´d definitely prefer a Chief with no choil too, if it had a handle with the same length as the current one and a (then longer) edge all the way back to the handle.

This would never be the case anyway though - unless they did something like a stop pin, a Spyderco backlock will always need some "kick" / unsharpened portion at the heel of the blade. They could "hide" that portion by utilizing the "handle forward" design of the Jumpers, but then you´d still have a long grip area and in relation short cutting edge, just in another form than the "traditional" finger choil or Endura-ricasso (Endura has about the same edge to handle ration as the Chief).
In addition (and sadly to me...) many folks seem not to be willing to adopt another backlock one handed closing method other than the "drop the choil/ricasso on the forefinger" - despite there are several good (better....) ones. So unless that habit changes, some kind of unsharpened blade part is also needed.

And: At least the Chief with its choil DOES offer two very good four finger grip options, even for really large hands (I personally am not bothered if a good portion of handle sticks out of the palm when choking up on a choil) - while, as said, at least for my hand size the Native 5 choil is not ideal at all: Forces me to use the choil, cause the grip area behind it gets too short, and sacrifices cutting edge length...

Just my 2 c, ymmv of course!

[JoviAl]

In my old age (I turned 40 this year) I find I’m becoming less and less tolerant of things that bug me on a knife.

In no particular order of priority I avoid knives that -

a) are folders but don’t have a self close bias locking mechanism (slip joints get special dispensation).

or

2) aren’t a fixed blade.

I don’t like sharpening choils either, although I own a couple of knives with them so I just sharpened it into a mini serration on them and now I like them plenty.

[Wartstein]

In my old age (I turned 40 this year) I find I’m becoming less and less tolerant of things that bug me on a knife.

In no particular order of priority I avoid knives that -

a) are folders but don’t have a self close bias locking mechanism (slip joints get special dispensation).
....

56 year old guy here, young man...

/... And yes, though not heavily important to me, but the self closing ("stay closed in pocket"-) bias of backlock and CBBL is nice to have and just better than with liner - or comp.lock.
(...But still is NOT the main reason that these days I happen to own exclusively backlocks (like 15) plus one CBBL when it comes to Spyderco-folders... )