H1Spyderco Machete?

[Stuart Ackerman]

… and sent. Four emails with one image each.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Ooops. Another email with me holding the handle for scale

[Fireman]

There was some talk about the Silky handles on a thread where we were talking about this topic but not sure which thread. I went by an REI and found a Silky Ono and it has that removable rubber handle. I was impressed and picked it up for some personal testing and fun. The handle feel and size make it a comfortable grip. I hope there could be a Silky/Spyderco collaboration with this handle.

[Stuart Ackerman]

I have never contemplated serrations on curved blade machetes and kukhris. I use my kukhris the traditional way, with the handle pivoting on the thumb and finger joints, to accelerate the blade strike. Hard to explain, but there are videos in YouTube showing you how. For me that would mean the serrations would work like rapid push strokes, not sliced as per katana strikes. I might do a Spook with serrations to see how it might work with my methods. The Spook is smaller than most machetes, but I wanted an easy edc in the wilds. And this steel type could be touched up with a random abrasive rock or pebble .

[Bill1170]

It’s an interesting question whether serrations will help or hinder the effectiveness of a chop or push cut. A push cut with serrations isn’t a pure push cut by every part of the edge. The points and the center of the scallops are doing a push cut but the rest of the edge is angled to the direction of the cut, resulting in a shearing action. My experience with woodworking is that a shearing cut has advantages over a straight push cut.

For one, the effective bevel angle of the edge becomes lower than the actual bevel angle measured perpendicular to the edge. This is why woodworkers will skew a plane or chisel when cutting particularly difficult wood. It’s also why a guillotine has an angled blade; it’s more effective for trimming miters or French royalty.

[sal]

Ooops. Another email with me holding the handle for scale

Hi Stuart,

I did not receive any of your emails?

sal

[Stuart Ackerman]

Hi Sal. Apologies. Sent again in one email five images

[Fireman]

It’s an interesting question whether serrations will help or hinder the effectiveness of a chop or push cut. A push cut with serrations isn’t a pure push cut by every part of the edge. The points and the center of the scallops are doing a push cut but the rest of the edge is angled to the direction of the cut, resulting in a shearing action. My experience with woodworking is that a shearing cut has advantages over a straight push cut.

For one, the effective bevel angle of the edge becomes lower than the actual bevel angle measured perpendicular to the edge. This is why woodworkers will skew a plane or chisel when cutting particularly difficult wood. It’s also why a guillotine has an angled blade; it’s more effective for trimming miters or French royalty.

Good points with morbid historical humor. This makes me think if a “Kris” blade edge “serrations” might be the Goldilocks serrations pattern for a machete. This could be done without a primary grind kind of like a wavy scandi with about a .5” or 1cm from apex to apex. So you could potentially sharpen this in the field with a round abrasive stone or file by dragging it parallel to the edge back and forth. This would add some extra length to the edge and different attack angles as you swing it.

[Jeb]

I know the two smaller SE profiles I tried, they would drag cut though things just fine, but they did chop or hack at the vines and limbs well at all guys.

This last profile I have does much better at either and yet the PE Kukri does a much better job at chopping and hacking.

Now, with the angle the Kukri does prompt the cutting process at a chopping and/or hacking does set up somewhat of a cutting than a straight edge does. I like the Kukri design for this reason really well, if I am making any sense here. Hard to type what I am trying to explain lol.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Hi Sal. Please check your aol email now? Hopefully you can see the Spook at last?

[sal]

Hi Stuart,

yes, I received the pictures. Thanx.

sal

[Stuart Ackerman]

Regardless of how you feel about the Spook, Sal, I will send you a bare steel and Pakkawood scaled Spook. Non knife folk love how it swishes as an extension to your hand.

[Fireman]

Here is a Shun bread knife that has kind of what I was saying about a wavy edge. I think maybe 5/8” apex to apex might be good size for a serrated machete. Easy to field sharpen with a rod abrasive

[JoviAl]

Almost feels like a necrobump reviving this thread but one thing led to another and only now have I been able to get round to testing my SE vs PE machetes back to back.

I didn’t take any photos as I was getting absolutely mobbed by mosquitoes at work today, but after a little over 500 cuts each I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. It penetrates fractionally deeper in soft materials (I cut down ~30 15ft tall fruited banana palms as my first job today), but is much more difficult to remove when it binds. The PE was dramatically easier to pull out of a banana palm if it didn’t make it all the way through (these are some big ole banana palms at the bottom, around 20 inches across the stump). In harder wood the PE bit deeper and more cleanly every time. The only time when I noticed a real advantage to the SE machete was in cutting free hanging flexible things like vines, as it’s serrations gave it better purchase.

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

So many questions, but it’s been a fun experiment (apart from the mosquitoes)!

[zhyla]

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

I think if we were to diagram the motion of a machete vs a knife you would see the motion of the material relative to the edge is dramatically different. SE is a saw, it needs the saw motion.

[JoviAl]

I’m glad I’ve scratched that mental itch, but it raises the question - what can we draw from this? My JM2 with its SE coupled with a hollow grind cuts way better than any PE blade of the same size and rough weight I own, so is it a reflection on the hollow grind being an important distinction (compared to the flat bar stock of the machetes I experimented with today), or is it that it’s a law of diminishing returns after a certain point and SE’s benefits are negated by the larger and faster moving PE edge hitting with massive force?

I think if we were to diagram the motion of a machete vs a knife you would see the motion of the material relative to the edge is dramatically different. SE is a saw, it needs the saw motion.

Fundamentally I agree - a machete is more like an axe than a saw in use. My JM2 is somewhat anomalous in that it is used almost exclusively for hacking and it really excels in that role. Using it as my initial data point for a hacking implement with SE has given me some misconceptions from the off I feel. I have been sat here wondering why the JM2 is so good for its size at hacking, but it occurs to me as I write this that its thick spine coupled with its hollow grind hold the answer - essentially its a heavy, hollow ground, very sharp thing swung hard.

[Bolster]

...I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. ...

Interesting report. And you took the hits from the mosquitos to deliver it. Thanks!

[JoviAl]

...I can safely say that SE on a standard Latin machete is measurably worse to work with than a PE one. ...

Interesting report. Thanks.

All in the name of science B Hope you’re well buddy.

[zhyla]

My JM2 is somewhat anomalous in that it is used almost exclusively for hacking and it really excels in that role.

I still think the geometry of the swing relative to the edge is dramatically different.

But the other thing counting against SE is how effective a standard Latin machete is at what it’s intended for. It’s difficult to improve on something that works really well already.

This is one of the reasons I’m watching the straight razor thread. Improving on a straight razor is I think equally difficult.

[JoviAl]

My JM2 is somewhat anomalous in that it is used almost exclusively for hacking and it really excels in that role.

I still think the geometry of the swing relative to the edge is dramatically different.

But the other thing counting against SE is how effective a standard Latin machete is at what it’s intended for. It’s difficult to improve on something that works really well already.

This is one of the reasons I’m watching the straight razor thread. Improving on a straight razor is I think equally difficult.

That’s a really good point. I personally enjoy a Seax blade shape for my line of work, but preference aside I’m sure all machete designs have been iterated on gradually over the decades since their inception. These cheap hardware store machetes are wicked slicers once sharpened, they just don’t stay sharp for long.