SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Actinolite]

Hi Actinolite,

All of the serrations will perform better after they've been sharpened on a Sharpmaker.

sal

Sal,

So far, my SE sharpening technique has resulted in my Chaparral cutting almost as well as the factory edge. It’s good to know that with more practice on my part, the Spyderedge can even be improved over factory.

[Bill1170]

I was musing, as one does, about cutting dynamics. A coarse edge is similar at a micro level to a serrated edge, having peaks and valleys. Then I reflected on shark teeth. The rows of teeth resemble a serrated edge, and each tooth has a ragged profile, too. Like a rocky coastline, it’s a fractal serrated edge. So then I wonder, would a Spyderedge sharpened on diamond/CBN offer superior cutting ability than a more polished Spyderedge? I’d like to know what you all think or have experienced with your own blades.

In a related vein, I pictured in my head an abrasive whose particles, instead of being pointy bits were like sharp round-topped tombstones lined up like a float file (but much smaller) so that when run off the edge at 90 degrees would leave a micro-scalloped edge, similar to a serrated edge at a much finer scale.

[cabfrank]

I've wondered about coarse vs more polished Spyderedge too. I have to assume the differences parallel those on a plain edge blade, but the fine white rods are recommend for SE, so I'm not sure.

[Evil D]

I've wondered about coarse vs more polished Spyderedge too. I have to assume the differences parallel those on a plain edge blade, but the fine white rods are recommend for SE, so I'm not sure.

I'm guessing that their recommendations for fine rods have more to do with not changing or potentially damaging the shape of the teeth if you don't know what you're doing.

The only limiting factor to what edge finish you can put on serrations are what sharpening media you have to work with. I have played around with diamond/CBN rods but I also am an advocate for not letting serrations get dull in the first place so I'm not one to ask about edge retention. Touching up an edge is so trivial, I just don't get the argument for not having time to do it, it's not even a hassle, it's a 60 second ordeal at best you can do before bed or before you leave for work. I have played with differing the grit finishes per side, using diamond/CBN on the serrations side and medium/fine on the back, but again I'm not going out of my way trying to find some ultimate edge retention option because I just don't see why making ~30 passes on a Sharpmaker is such a big deal. All I really need is for the edge to last at least one day of heavy use and I'm good. I also think any difference in edge cutting aggression from changing edge types is lost on serrations because the shape of serrations already makes an aggressive cutting edge no matter what finish you go with, you can polish the edge and it'll still cut aggressively. This is one reason I like serrations so much, because you can get by with a finer edge finish that will excel at push cutting while still having a powerful cutting edge, so for me it's the best of all worlds.

[cabfrank]

I completely agree with keeping them sharp, not letting them dull too much. It's so quick and easy with Spyderedge and Sharpmaker.

[Bill1170]

I agree that maintaining a Spyderedge is trivial on the Sharpmaker. I keep mine sharp, but I’m not chasing hair-whittling with my SE, just effortless matter separation.

[JoviAl]

I was musing, as one does, about cutting dynamics. A coarse edge is similar at a micro level to a serrated edge, having peaks and valleys. Then I reflected on shark teeth. The rows of teeth resemble a serrated edge, and each tooth has a ragged profile, too. Like a rocky coastline, it’s a fractal serrated edge. So then I wonder, would a Spyderedge sharpened on diamond/CBN offer superior cutting ability than a more polished Spyderedge? I’d like to know what you all think or have experienced with your own blades.

In a related vein, I pictured in my head an abrasive whose particles, instead of being pointy bits were like sharp round-topped tombstones lined up like a float file (but much smaller) so that when run off the edge at 90 degrees would leave a micro-scalloped edge, similar to a serrated edge at a much finer scale.

I’ve played around with this a fair bit but have found the variance between fine, polished fine, coarse, very coarse and dual grit to be a bit of a moot point. As David mentioned above, it’s such a non-event touching up an SE blade that it’s not really worth the hassle of letting it go fully dull before attending to it. A CBN Double Stuff is my pocket go-to while out pruning - it’s brilliant.

[Evil D]

I was musing, as one does, about cutting dynamics. A coarse edge is similar at a micro level to a serrated edge, having peaks and valleys. Then I reflected on shark teeth. The rows of teeth resemble a serrated edge, and each tooth has a ragged profile, too. Like a rocky coastline, it’s a fractal serrated edge. So then I wonder, would a Spyderedge sharpened on diamond/CBN offer superior cutting ability than a more polished Spyderedge? I’d like to know what you all think or have experienced with your own blades.

In a related vein, I pictured in my head an abrasive whose particles, instead of being pointy bits were like sharp round-topped tombstones lined up like a float file (but much smaller) so that when run off the edge at 90 degrees would leave a micro-scalloped edge, similar to a serrated edge at a much finer scale.

I’ve played around with this a fair bit but have found the variance between fine, polished fine, coarse, very coarse and dual grit to be a bit of a moot point. As David mentioned above, it’s such a non-event touching up an SE blade that it’s not really worth the hassle of letting it go fully dull before attending to it. A CBN Double Stuff is my pocket go-to while out pruning - it’s brilliant.

Maybe it's a touch of OCD or something, but I just can't imagine leaving the house with a knife that's been used a bunch of times, I feel like it's the equivalent of driving a car with a broken gas gauge. People that chase after the longest edge retention are spending more time with a less sharp knife, and I don't think can make the argument that I spend more time sharpening when it takes so little time to do what I do. If you stay on top of it, it's similar to a butcher who steels his edge before doing his job, and every time you use that knife you're starting out with a "full tank" of edge retention. This makes me pay more attention to how steels take damage and whether they tend to chip or roll or just blunt, and that's more how I favor one steel over another in SE because edge retention is only going to matter when I don't have a choice. I think any steel Spyderco makes in SE has probably far more edge retention than I'll ever need.

[JoviAl]

I was musing, as one does, about cutting dynamics. A coarse edge is similar at a micro level to a serrated edge, having peaks and valleys. Then I reflected on shark teeth. The rows of teeth resemble a serrated edge, and each tooth has a ragged profile, too. Like a rocky coastline, it’s a fractal serrated edge. So then I wonder, would a Spyderedge sharpened on diamond/CBN offer superior cutting ability than a more polished Spyderedge? I’d like to know what you all think or have experienced with your own blades.

In a related vein, I pictured in my head an abrasive whose particles, instead of being pointy bits were like sharp round-topped tombstones lined up like a float file (but much smaller) so that when run off the edge at 90 degrees would leave a micro-scalloped edge, similar to a serrated edge at a much finer scale.

I’ve played around with this a fair bit but have found the variance between fine, polished fine, coarse, very coarse and dual grit to be a bit of a moot point. As David mentioned above, it’s such a non-event touching up an SE blade that it’s not really worth the hassle of letting it go fully dull before attending to it. A CBN Double Stuff is my pocket go-to while out pruning - it’s brilliant.

Maybe it's a touch of OCD or something, but I just can't imagine leaving the house with a knife that's been used a bunch of times, I feel like it's the equivalent of driving a car with a broken gas gauge. People that chase after the longest edge retention are spending more time with a less sharp knife, and I don't think can make the argument that I spend more time sharpening when it takes so little time to do what I do. If you stay on top of it, it's similar to a butcher who steels his edge before doing his job, and every time you use that knife you're starting out with a "full tank" of edge retention. This makes me pay more attention to how steels take damage and whether they tend to chip or roll or just blunt, and that's more how I favor one steel over another in SE because edge retention is only going to matter when I don't have a choice. I think any steel Spyderco makes in SE has probably far more edge retention than I'll ever need.

I hear that!

I’ve started using an electric belt sharpener for all my PE stuff these days as life is short, but SE really does take very little time (or even concentration) to keep on top form. SE isn’t perfect for everything all the time, but it is near perfect for most things most of the time.

[JARHEAD]

I've wondered about coarse vs more polished Spyderedge too. I have to assume the differences parallel those on a plain edge blade, but the fine white rods are recommend for SE, so I'm not sure.

The whites are all I use for the first week or so! Grind side, back side. I have found and fought a plethora of SE burrs and this “for some reason” works pretty well

[vivi]

I was musing, as one does, about cutting dynamics. A coarse edge is similar at a micro level to a serrated edge, having peaks and valleys. Then I reflected on shark teeth. The rows of teeth resemble a serrated edge, and each tooth has a ragged profile, too. Like a rocky coastline, it’s a fractal serrated edge. So then I wonder, would a Spyderedge sharpened on diamond/CBN offer superior cutting ability than a more polished Spyderedge? I’d like to know what you all think or have experienced with your own blades.

In a related vein, I pictured in my head an abrasive whose particles, instead of being pointy bits were like sharp round-topped tombstones lined up like a float file (but much smaller) so that when run off the edge at 90 degrees would leave a micro-scalloped edge, similar to a serrated edge at a much finer scale.

I’ve played around with this a fair bit but have found the variance between fine, polished fine, coarse, very coarse and dual grit to be a bit of a moot point. As David mentioned above, it’s such a non-event touching up an SE blade that it’s not really worth the hassle of letting it go fully dull before attending to it. A CBN Double Stuff is my pocket go-to while out pruning - it’s brilliant.

Maybe it's a touch of OCD or something, but I just can't imagine leaving the house with a knife that's been used a bunch of times, I feel like it's the equivalent of driving a car with a broken gas gauge. People that chase after the longest edge retention are spending more time with a less sharp knife, and I don't think can make the argument that I spend more time sharpening when it takes so little time to do what I do. If you stay on top of it, it's similar to a butcher who steels his edge before doing his job, and every time you use that knife you're starting out with a "full tank" of edge retention. This makes me pay more attention to how steels take damage and whether they tend to chip or roll or just blunt, and that's more how I favor one steel over another in SE because edge retention is only going to matter when I don't have a choice. I think any steel Spyderco makes in SE has probably far more edge retention than I'll ever need.

I used to be that way. Touched up my Police 3 on fine sharpmaker rods every day or two.

It's so nice letting go of that feeling. My coarser edges are useful for months, so I go a minimum of a few weeks between touch ups unless I really go to town on some cutting chores.

[vivi]

I've wondered about coarse vs more polished Spyderedge too. I have to assume the differences parallel those on a plain edge blade, but the fine white rods are recommend for SE, so I'm not sure.

absolutely. from the low grit sharpening thread:

I didn't limit myself to PE. I did the same thing with serrated knives. The SE Pacific Salt I was sharpening with my UF rod got taken down to medium. The difference felt less drastic on SE, but edge longevity still increased.

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After a while I got curious to take my experiment further. I ordered a set of diamond sharpmaker rods to compliment my DMT diamond benchstones. Now I could sharpen any knife, PE or SE, to very coarse grits.

First, I experimented with a SE Pacific Salt. I ground it the same way I did with the medium rods: 15 degrees, no microbevel. I tested it out and it was easily the most aggressive slicing edge I had ever tried, hands down.


Pacific Salt sharpened on UF rods


Serrated Pacific Salt ground on diamond rods at 15 degrees


Next was a Manix XL PE. I ground off the microbevel on my DMT reprofiling stone, then using feather light strokes I refined the apex well enough to cleanly shave. I didn't think I was capable of shaving sharpness off this stone, this was a surprise. The edge sliced very aggressively for plain edge. I was immediately hooked. It grabbed materials much better VS the polished edge, bringing it closer to the performance of my SE Pacific.


Manix XL sharpened around 10 degrees per side on a DMT Extra Coarse diamond plate


I kept going, dropping the grit finish on nearly every knife in my collection. I experimented with edges straight off the diamonds, diamonds followed by stropping, and even tried some edges where I'd grind at 15 degrees with diamonds then do two strokes per side with the fine rods at 20 degrees to refine the apex withiout completely grinding off the teeth.


Serrated Pacific Salt ground on diamond rods at 15 degrees finished with two strokes per side with fine rods at 20 degrees.

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For me, the benefits of this sharpening journey have been numerous. I've learned more about my abilities, the steels in my collection, and how different grits affect the performance of the knife.

These days I switch between two knives for my EDC. A serrated Pacific Salt and a PE DLC Manix XL. Both have edges straight off my diamond rods, and both are shaving sharp. These toothy edges have changed how I approach sharpening:

- I'm going further between sharpenings. Polished edges dulled to the point they don't scrape shave cut poorly. Very toothy edges that no longer shave cut great! I'm touching up after a few weeks rather than a few days.

- Sharpening times have decreased. Coarser stones work much faster, and no grit progression means I only have to setup a single stone. Fully refreshed apexes in under a minute, easily.

- My edges grab materials better. Have you ever tried to slice poly rope or plastic wrap with a dulled plain edge and felt it slip around? These toothy edges do the opposite, they grab a hold of material and don't let go until its cut. It's not only more efficient, its safer.

- Sharpening is more fun. At the risk of sounding conceited, getting shaving sharpness from a full progression up the the ultrafine stones was trivial for me. Getting shaving sharpness right off the diamond sharpmaker rods takes a more concentrated effort, and feels more rewarding when accomplished. Between the added challenge and reduced sharpening times, I look forward to touch-ups a lot more now.

- They're awesome slicers! I've always considered myself a connoisseur of cut. I spent years as a chef and developed an appreciation for a well sharpened knife. These low grit edges cut extremely well, and cut differently. It's been a pleasure using them on a variety of materials.

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If you're like me and never experimented with low grit edges, I suggest giving it a try! See how refined of an edge you can achieve with your lowest grit stone, then try cutting with it. You might be surprised!

I can carry a serrated Pacific Salt for 6 months with an edge right off the diamond stones and it'll still cut most things just fine.

Sharpening an EDC knife daily or weekly is madness.

[cabfrank]

[Bill1170]

So, fractal SE lasts longer? Color me intrigued.