Steeltoez83 testing log

[Steeltoez83]

I sharpened up my Cinco sage for longevity testing, as well as the magnacut Para 3. For touchups, I decided 7 passes per side on the fine white spyderco ceramic benchstone will be standard protocol. Sorta replicating sharpmaker users who do 20 alternating passes on the white rods. The magnacut needs a few more edges b4 longevity testing to be considered. However, s30v on my Cinco sage was tested last night. The rounds were set at 60 units of work from previous testing results. After 8 rounds, the s30v failed. A score of 480 units of work was achieved.

[Steeltoez83]

I have put 2 more edges thru testing on my magnacut para 3. The second edge hit a final score of 290. Previous magnacut tests around 350 ish, so I figured the next edge Id hit max performance. The para 3 wasnt able to gain anything on this edge. 290 appears to be the ceiling limit for this sharpening style. Id have to retest with my standard diamond super vit stone to see how much edge life is lost. Magnacut usually achieves 350-360 in my testing, so for discussion purposes 65 units of work are lost with ceramic influenced sharpening. Id be curious to see how many testimonies claim that this magnacut is behaving like s30v. Afterall your only seeing 81% of the performance you should be seeing. Self aware users would notice the accelerated decline in edge life, I know I would.

[Steeltoez83]

Longevity testing is still ongoing, but this magnacut has passed 11 rounds so far. Minimally this magnacut will hit a score of 984 at 12 rounds or beyond that.

[Steeltoez83]

I was able to get 2 more rounds on this magnacut. A total of 1,066 units of work. Given the successful outcome of this kind of testing, I feel I have created a strong case on what value magnacut brings to the table. And with just a white fine ceramic. I personally think its a strong contender for serrations especially after this test.

[Steeltoez83]

Spy27 factory edge did 120 today.

[horzuff]

Huge work, thanks for the effort!

Would You mind reiterating the testing process though? I feel a bit lost in these results. For both the longevity and standard edge testing. If You already wrote it down somewhere, a link or directions will of cource suffice

[Steeltoez83]

Huge work, thanks for the effort!

Would You mind reiterating the testing process though? I feel a bit lost in these results. For both the longevity and standard edge testing. If You already wrote it down somewhere, a link or directions will of cource suffice

Ive listed the process throughout the thread. The first post on page 8 explained longevity testing and what it entailed. If there's still more uncertainty than I will make another post or 2 to help clarify.

[Steeltoez83]

I wanted to see the performance increase with the 1st edge on spy27. I used my 1k diamond super vit stone for this test. I will go back to my 400/brown ceramic for the next few test edges. Spy27 had a 58% increase in wear resistance with my edge. A score of 190 today.

[Steeltoez83]

Life has been busy lately, but i was able to cut test my manix this morning. I much prefer the g10 manix over the para 3 lightweight. With my 400 super vit, and brown ceramic stone, the spy 27 achieved a score of 215. Next edge will be able to verify if 215 is the performance peak, and where the front end sharpness is for longevity testing.

[Steeltoez83]

Front end sharpness reached 125 today. This means for longevity testing the rounds will be set at 50 slices. I checked the edge at 220 and it did not pass. 215 will be the listed wear resistance number for spy 27.

[Steeltoez83]

Finished up longevity testing on my spy27 aka my poppa smurf. Im using the fine white spyderco ceramic for my scheduled touchups and the brown ceramic to refine the edge after a clean 400 grit super vit edge. This manix was able to keep up for 10 rounds reaching a final score of 500.

[sal]

Hey Steeltoez,

Question for you on the Mule Team MagnaMax thread in the Mule Team subforum.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

On page 5 of this thread I mentioned getting a newer sample of 14c28n. That was October of last year. Better late than never tho. The model is a Harnds harvest I picked up for 22 bucks on Amazon. The factory edge did 90 for me.

[Steeltoez83]

I was asked to elaborate on my views on serrations. This is going to be a long-winded response that hopefully addresses how I feel about them. Testing steel for performance is what I do. Im an alternative to rope, cardboard, catra, or beating wood like it owes you money. I feel like I test more frequently than most folks which gives me an advantage. Plus I compound variables, use different abrasives, and perform testing I haven’t seen anywhere else. This started out for my own curiosity, and to find out what is and not what I think. Lately its been longevity which I feel is superior to standardized testing.

I believe its common for folks to utilize the edge over a few days, maybe a week. I have a system to calculate how much a daily workload is based on performance metrics. And I use either diamond only or ceramics. Ever ask why that is? See the spyderco sharpmaker aka 204 MF is iconic in the spyderco lineup. I think 90% of serration users rely on that system. That’s a ballpark guess, I have no intention of creating a survey to see where the numbers line up. The system itself is proven by thousands if not tens of thousands of individuals.

The preset angle of 15 degrees or 20 degrees assist users who prefer more consistency of the edge. In my mind, 1 needs to utilize these ceramics to replicate the sharpmaker experience. I do all my serration sharpening freehand most of the time with the brown and white benchstones. I prefer plain edge esp for testing over serrated patterns. First of all buying the same knife twice (PE and SE) is counterproductive to me financially. Because it would be in theory the same heat treat, duplicates are unnecessary.

In a fully serrated knife, the edge itself is interrupted vs a straight continuous line. The interrupted pattern is beneficial to many users, and im glad both sides get represented on this forum. The analogies I use when describing serrations is that they are like a helping hand that’s able to grab and cut simultaneously. As if the user has 3 hands. The points are set up like a football defense structure. Inside the scallops are the linebackers, while the points are the lineman. This structure is obviously beneficial to some environments more than others. I wouldn’t say better, id say different.

Right now I haven’t found or created a testing system that is applicable to producing metrics of value without bias. Because the edge inside the scallop adds a layer of uncertainty into the testing structure. External downward pressure during examination procedures alters results. Some of the knives I own are less than 10 thousands of an inch behind the edge. Downward pressure with those reground or thinner blade profiles would contaminate the backlog of all collected performance data. I test the apex of the steel not blade geometry.

Using the spyderco ceramics makes the most sense to me bcuz its recommended by many people here. On my thread I did comparisons with rex 76 on page 7 of this thread. One model I used diamonds to sharpen the knife, the other was the ceramic benchstones. There was a noticeable performance difference between the 2. In reality the ceramic sharpened edge should mirror performance metrics of its diamond/cbn counterparts. This means the sharpmaker triangles are producing the maximum potential to the steel.

In cases like 15V I have seen performance plummet down to s30v when ceramics were used in sharpening. To me that’s leaving a lot of performance off the table. Chances are your paying extra for those carbides, but in reality s35vn was a better buy in terms of value per dollar. Spyderco does this for its serrated edge enthusiasts, they push boundaries beyond what I think they should. This is just my views anyhow. My testing with magnacut especially longevity testing on the white ceramic I believe provided a solid case for magnacut in the lineup. I can argue my recommendations with data points from my own experiments.

Another KPI would be from the results of my ice block testing. The points on a serrated edge need to be both tough and strong to survive. I use performance percentages to assess how accelerated the wear resistance declines. I am for 75-80% as benchmarks in that testing style, bcuz the environments for serrated edges are usually more utility focused. Once all these tests are performed and the metrics hit acceptable to ideal ranges in all categories, I think serrations should come next. Im not part of that decision making process, but I feel my data can be used to assist.

For my police in serrated k390 I use a 800 grit silicon carbide stone. During plain edge testing of the seki k390 runs, I saw the 800 grit king neo hit only 90% of what I achieved with diamonds. This is an improvement over ceramics, but still a compromise in terms of what true performance potential is. I did test my police against another labeled 1k silicon carbide stone that I believed was mislabeled and achieved like 240 on my testing style. Id have to dig thru my archives to Feb of 2023 which was when I did the testing.

Im not a fan of combo edge knives, therefore fully serrated is the only platform I prefer. I have a few serrated spydies and byrds in my collection. My progression is usually the Norton fine india followed by the spyderco ceramics. I angle my strokes 3 directions to develop the inside of the scallops, and I get results im satisfied with. My go to has been my vg10 endela these days. Spy 27 seems like a great candidate for serrations, s35vn should get more, magnacut too. That’s just from the findings of all my data points that I have collected.

The right cut testing for serrations I believe needs to have a set calculated force on cutting media. Converted into the right units (Newtons) and tested on something like carpet might be a great way to test. See how many times it can cut with 350 newtons or whatever force equivalent is appropriate. The best I can do for now is use plain edges and provide data points for the general public. There are variations within the heat treated samples afterall. Spyderco aims for a 2 point rockwell difference within their heat treats from what I understand. I only test the samples within my fingertips as well. A hobby I started from my own curiosity that’s evolved over time.

[jwbnyc]

Thanks.

I’m wondering what difference you’re seeing between CBN and diamonds, in terms of edge longevity. Maybe I missed any data you have on that.

[Steeltoez83]

At this point there are no differences in edge retention between the 2. I did start up a comparison experiment between the spyderco cbn and diamond rods awhile ago. Its a project i will return to at a later date. I think im 400 passes on each 1 and only saw 1 deviation on the 12 knives or so i put thru that testing. I haven't posted anything about that on this forum yet bcuz i haven't found any difference between em yet.

[Steeltoez83]

This was done in Feb of 2023. I had a feeling my testing would be an inaccurate display of k390 so I never posted it here. Plus my thread didn't exist then. This experiment reinforced the concept that PE and SE should be tested differently. Instead of creating an entire new platform for serrations, I adjusted current structure based on steel not design. This way I can provide metrics for steels, and why they should or should not be chosen for serrations. According to my own key performance indicators (KPI)

[JBoone]

Steel,

What steel is most similar to Spy 27 in your testing? Overall thoughts on this steel?

I believe is in a similar class as other s series steels (from a Larin article if memory is correct) but curious as to your take after testing.

I appreciate your posts!

ETA am enjoying my Native Chief and more so the sage lightweight in spy but I am by no means testing either.

[Steeltoez83]

I havent read Dr Larrins article on spy27. In the past my findings sometimes contradict the data the good doctor has provided. Even Sal has said the same, not sure where that post is. Spy 27 reminds me of Chris Reeve heat treated s35vn and my sample of his s45vn. Spydercos s35vn and CRK s35vn behave differently. The spy27 outcut both my CRKs by a decent margin, however both were very similar in attributes during sharpening. And both want to take a high polish even at medium to low grit stones. Im not the biggest fan of spy27 personally, but it has some great attributes most will enjoy. That could just be from owning a Para 3 lightweight and disliking the model. However on the right model, its an enjoyable steel to carry imo. Cut testing never calculates the fun factor, but on spy27 I rank it higher than most. I mean it became the 1st production run mule team. And the first steel spyderco created from the ground up. I look at the spy guy as a trail blazer steel, your views can disagree.

[Steeltoez83]

My magnamax mule showed up today and I got tested the received edge right away. Huge appreciation to Sal and everyone from the spyderco team. This edge hit 210 which means we are off to a very promising start.