Why the rise in Autism, ADHD etc?

[Larry_Mott]

I think it's simply a case of increased awareness and better knowledge nowadays. When I was a kid there were other kids that was 'hopeless' 'daft' or otherwise just written off as "not having all the horses in the stable" I have a friend who runs his own successful business nowadays, he was hopeless in school, it was not until the last years, around 8:th grade they found out that he was dyslectic and needed glasses... Those things would have been picked up and addressed at a very early age nowadays. I feel it's the same with ADHD and similar diagnoses. I don't believe for a second that there are other factors involved, like vaccine etc. They are just not written off as weird kids anymore, but properly diagnosed.

[Ankerson]

I think it's simply a case of increased awareness and better knowledge nowadays. When I was a kid there were other kids that was 'hopeless' 'daft' or otherwise just written off as "not having all the horses in the stable" I have a friend who runs his own successful business nowadays, he was hopeless in school, it was not until the last years, around 8:th grade they found out that he was dyslectic and needed glasses... Those things would have been picked up and addressed at a very early age nowadays. I feel it's the same with ADHD and similar diagnoses. I don't believe for a second that there are other factors involved, like vaccine etc. They are just not written off as weird kids anymore, but properly diagnosed.

Absolutely 100% correct.

[Mage7]

Outside of more awareness, less stigma associated with mental illness, and those types of trends that are hard to quantify, there was also a very well-documented expansion of diagnostic criteria when we transitioned from the DSM-IV to the DSM-V in 2013. With respect to autism, they not only expanded the criteria that would qualify, but also consolidated several previously-distinct conditions into a more broad "Autism Spectrum Disorder" so there was not only an increase in previously undiagnosed cases, but a reclassification of other distinct conditions into one, and this has consistently been reported without an effort to highlight the clinical characteristics versus the general public's perception of autism, though it did eventually catch up with people now more often referring to it as "the spectrum". Similarly with ADHD, the criteria was expanded to cover a wider set of symptoms than when it was more commonly called ADD, and then also expanded from the need for impairment to be present to just symptoms being needed, as well as raising the age of symptom onset from 7 to 12 which greatly increased the numbers of adults receiving a diagnosis. They also now consider ASD and ADHD to be comorbid and so more kids are receiving diagnosis of both, whereas previously it was just one or the other.

One of the things that serves as another nail in the coffin against the idea that vaccines are behind the increase is that there's not even really a correlative link, let alone a causal link. In other words if you actually look at the points in time where these diagnostics expanded, there's not an associated increase in vaccination rates anyway. That entire idea is predicated on the idea that the amount of childhood vaccinations needed climbed in tandem with increased diagnoses of ASD or ADHD, but the best anyone can do is to point to an increase in one after the other, and they disregard the expanded diagnostic criteria in doing so. Meanwhile, the cases of ASD and ADHD have kept rising as vaccination rates have dropped.

All that said, I think that whereas some would insist these conditions were once under-diagnosed, there's also a lot of question about whether they're now over-diagnosed. I think that is because at a purely clinical level, there's a lot more cases with treatable symptoms present, but not quite as many with obvious impairment. Usually impairment is just defined as a person's ability to participate in and perform basic social functions, personal care, etc. Typically, before this expansion, only low-functioning cases with a lot of impairment were the most visible and kind of set the expectation of what these disorders entailed in the mind's of the general public. Think about Rainman, for example, as what people typically imagined when someone said they were autistic before the idea of the "spectrum" became more common. Similarly with ADHD, people tend to associate it with children that have behavioral problems impairing their scholastic success. I think that the public perception of these conditions still hasn't really caught up with the broadened clinical definitions that include high-functioning cases with little or no impairment but that still result in favorable outcomes with treatment, and has created an idea that there's been a sudden surge in people suffering debilitating illness when that's not really the case. In other words, there's not an increase in people gravely affected by these conditions, but there is an increase in people who were mildly affected now benefiting from treatment.

More importantly, I think that difference between documented increase and visible increase in low-functioning cases is actively suppressed by too many special interest groups. As they say, "Never let a good crisis go to waste." While I think politicians capitalizing on it as an appeal to voter base that values individual freedoms is obvious, and that the vaccine link to it is pretty thoroughly debunked, it won't stop people on either side of the political spectrum and elsewhere from continuing to capitalize on it. Saying it's a public health crisis and pointing the finger at something to blame is always going to help more people than acknowledging we've simply increased treatability of under-diagnosed conditions.

You can stop reading here if you're not interested in my own pet-conspiracy-theory...

To a larger degree, I believe that the healthcare industry has been sort of silently benefiting from it more than the politicians, but that it's a symbiotic situation. Between the pharmaceutical industry and healthcare providers, there's a lot of people making a lot of money from the increase in high-functioning cases receiving treatment. Not that I think there's necessarily anything wrong with industry profiting from people receiving treatment, but I can see some clear incentive for them to want to keep people believing that there is some truth to vaccines being the cause. It's sort of a no-lose situation for them: Vaccination rates drop, and they'll make money off the preventable illnesses that increase because of that, and since the amount of treatable cases of ASD and ADHD will be unaffected either way they'll continue making money off of that too.

If you think about from that perspective, then it's in their best interest to keep supporting policies favorable to their industry. Which, let's face it, both the Democrats' and Republicans' policies are very generous to the health-insurance sector, but specifically Republican policy makers have a constituency that votes along this issue more than the Democrats. The same conspiratorial thinking that would insist they're causing an increase in these conditions with their vaccines in order to make more money treating them would also tend to support the idea that they're the ones pushing those anti-vax conspiracies in the first place, because it doesn't really hurt them more than it helps. Frankly, it seems a lot easier for them to help perpetuate the current status-quo with health-insurance through a national disinformation campaign in America, than to hide evidence vaccines actually cause these conditions through the same means at a global level. They'll certainly continue to make a lot more money off patients paying for drugs and behavioral therapy than from a handful of vaccines every once in a while, and also from treating serious illnesses those vaccines would have prevented.

In sum, keeping the people thinking vaccines cause autism keeps the policy makers that appeal to those voters elected, which then keeps policy favorable to health-insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies, which keep things favorable to health-care providers offering diagnosis and/or treatment services for these conditions and others.

[Scandi Grind]

Anti-vaxxers vex me because the medical community has worked so hard to prevent things like Polio, Smallpox, and Measles, and their beliefs are putting others at risk. It's selfish on their part because it's not just their kid that gets ill. Their unvaccinated kid comes into contact with a kid that is immunocompromised from let's say chemo treatments for leukemia, and now that kid is infected.

This I can understand the thought process on. However, all things considered, I don't think it is inherently, or even usually selfish for someone to choose for themselves what vaccinations to take. This is something that should be a personal choice based on what you are comfortable with and based on your own research. There is a lot of debate in the proffessional community right now about how different vaccines effect people, so it is totally reasonable to me to see many people opting out until a more clear concensus can be made.

[Ankerson]

Anti-vaxxers vex me because the medical community has worked so hard to prevent things like Polio, Smallpox, and Measles, and their beliefs are putting others at risk. It's selfish on their part because it's not just their kid that gets ill. Their unvaccinated kid comes into contact with a kid that is immunocompromised from let's say chemo treatments for leukemia, and now that kid is infected.

This I can understand the thought process on. However, all things considered, I don't think it is inherently, or even usually selfish for someone to choose for themselves what vaccinations to take. This is something that should be a personal choice based on what you are comfortable with and based on your own research. There is a lot of debate in the proffessional community right now about how different vaccines effect people, so it is totally reasonable to me to see many people opting out until a more clear concensus can be made.

Well there is always the opinion to pick an island someplace far away to put those who refuse to get vaccinated.

That way they can infect each other and not innocent people and children.

No need for any sort of medical care since they know more than the scientists and MDs.

They could just put Anti-VAX Conspiracy Theorist junkies In Charge....

No wait... They already did that...

[Scandi Grind]

I respect your opinion Ankerson, and I am willing to fight and die in order to defend my right to my own opinion. The right to choose what is best for myself is why I love my country.

You also overlook the fact that this is not something that the experts currently agree on. So which expert do you trust? That is the question we are currently allowed to decide.

[Ankerson]

I respect your opinion Ankerson, and I am willing to fight and die in order to defend my right to my own opinion. The right to choose what is best for myself is why I love my country.

You also overlook the fact that this is not something that the experts currently agree on. So which expert do you trust? That is the question we are currently allowed to decide.

You mean the Anti-VAX Conspiracy Theorist junkies In Charge?

They are not experts by any means, they are by far the most unqualified in the history of the US.

Would be like putting Katy Perry in charge of NASA, that's how bad it really is.

[Scandi Grind]

You mean the Anti-VAX Conspiracy Theorist junkies In Charge?

Nope, I mean many doctors all over the world.

But for me this is more about the right to choose, not about whether this or that side ends up being right. It doesn't matter to me why someone has an opinion, just that they are allowed to have it and act according to their own convictions. To say that this question can be answered deffinitively at this point would be a logical fallacy anyway. I have multiple friends develop major health conditions right after Covid vaccination. I know I guy who lost all his friends in his town to unspecified conditions after being vaccinated. So I have had mulitiple instances happen very close to me that make me concerned.

In the end, I think it is safe to say that this can't really be debated effectively over a forum. Also, neither of us probably has any reason to be convinced by the other, so I share here only to give one person's perspective. Anyone is free to take it for what it is worth to them. I have no intention of forcing my opinion on anyone.

[Naperville]

You mean the Anti-VAX Conspiracy Theorist junkies In Charge?

Nope, I mean many doctors all over the world.

But for me this is more about the right to choose, not about whether this or that side ends up being right. It doesn't matter to me why someone has an opinion, just that they are allowed to have it and act according to their own convictions. To say that this question can be answered deffinitively at this point would be a logical fallacy anyway. I have multiple friends develop major health conditions right after Covid vaccination. I know I guy who lost all his friends in his town to unspecified conditions after being vaccinated. So I have had mulitiple instances happen very close to me that make me concerned.

In the end, I think it is safe to say that this can't really be debated effectively over a forum. Also, neither of us probably has any reason to be convinced by the other, so I share here only to give one person's perspective. Anyone is free to take it for what it is worth to them. I have no intention of forcing my opinion on anyone.

My mother collapsed after getting her 3rd COVID shot, and after that, we never took any more. Enough.

Try lifting 160 limp pounds off the ground and getting it into a wheelchair. She could not walk for 4 full days.

I was on a mission before COVID struck to get every vaccine known to man in case society broke down for any reason, and harsh living conditions took hold. After I saw my mother collapse, I have not taken a vaccine since.

BUT IF YOU WANT THEM - GO FOR IT.

[Mushroom]

You mean the Anti-VAX Conspiracy Theorist junkies In Charge?

Nope, I mean many doctors all over the world.

But for me this is more about the right to choose, not about whether this or that side ends up being right. It doesn't matter to me why someone has an opinion, just that they are allowed to have it and act according to their own convictions. To say that this question can be answered deffinitively at this point would be a logical fallacy anyway. I have multiple friends develop major health conditions right after Covid vaccination. I know I guy who lost all his friends in his town to unspecified conditions after being vaccinated. So I have had mulitiple instances happen very close to me that make me concerned.

In the end, I think it is safe to say that this can't really be debated effectively over a forum. Also, neither of us probably has any reason to be convinced by the other, so I share here only to give one person's perspective. Anyone is free to take it for what it is worth to them. I have no intention of forcing my opinion on anyone.

The logical contrast here is deafening!

We can make noise or make sense - you chose sense, even in the face of noise.

[Scandi Grind]

The logical contrast here is deafening!

We can make noise or make sense - you chose sense, even in the face of noise.

Insults are not a substitute for logic either. In reality nothing we have discussed has anything to do with logic in the first place, other than what we have each applied as individuals to researching the topic in order to form our opinions. That is what we are actually sharing here, opinions, and lucky for you, you are not forced to share my opinion. I'm not your opponent, I just have a different opinion. I think that is how things are best, for us both to be allowed opinions.

I hope you have a nice day.

[Mushroom]

The logical contrast here is deafening!

We can make noise or make sense - you chose sense, even in the face of noise.

Insults are not a substitute for logic either. In reality nothing we have discussed has anything to do with logic in the first place, other than what we have each applied as individuals to researching the topic in order to form our opinions. That is what we are actually sharing here, opinions, and lucky for you, you are not forced to share my opinion. I'm not your enemy, I just have a different opinion. I think that is how things are best, for us both to be allowed opinions.

I hope you have a nice day.

Yeah, exactly, thats what I meant. I know the topic itself is not about logic. I was just appreciating that you actually applied reasoning ("logic") to form your own perspective. I agree, insults are not a substitute for logic - especially when the primary motivation is personal politics beliefs.

[Halfneck]

Anti-vaxxers vex me because the medical community has worked so hard to prevent things like Polio, Smallpox, and Measles, and their beliefs are putting others at risk. It's selfish on their part because it's not just their kid that gets ill. Their unvaccinated kid comes into contact with a kid that is immunocompromised from let's say chemo treatments for leukemia, and now that kid is infected.

This I can understand the thought process on. However, all things considered, I don't think it is inherently, or even usually selfish for someone to choose for themselves what vaccinations to take. This is something that should be a personal choice based on what you are comfortable with and based on your own research. There is a lot of debate in the proffessional community right now about how different vaccines effect people, so it is totally reasonable to me to see many people opting out until a more clear concensus can be made.

Except that by opting not to get some vaccinations, they're not just choosing for "themselves". Re-read what I underlined. There was an actual case of that happening to an immunocompromised kid at an amusement park who contracted measles. There's a reason you don't see a bunch of people dying from smallpox, measles, and polio - vaccinations.

Now in the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, I do think it was rushed & I'm unsure how effective it was. I do know it did not stop anyone from getting it. I had several vaccinated co-workers that contracted COVID-19 multiple times. I'm usually pretty resistant and I contracted it regardless of being vaccinated. As for if being vaccinated for COVID-19 reduced the effects of it - possibly. Most of the fatalities among the patients we saw were among people with other serious health issues like COPD, Heart disease, Diabetes, Obesity, or combinations of them. I took my initial 2 COVID-19 vaccinations because it was required. After that though I did not follow up with anymore - nor did my hospital, or any of the others around the country require it. The science was no longer supporting the effectiveness of the follow up vaccinations to the mutating COVID-19 strains.

[Ankerson]

Anti-vaxxers vex me because the medical community has worked so hard to prevent things like Polio, Smallpox, and Measles, and their beliefs are putting others at risk. It's selfish on their part because it's not just their kid that gets ill. Their unvaccinated kid comes into contact with a kid that is immunocompromised from let's say chemo treatments for leukemia, and now that kid is infected.

This I can understand the thought process on. However, all things considered, I don't think it is inherently, or even usually selfish for someone to choose for themselves what vaccinations to take. This is something that should be a personal choice based on what you are comfortable with and based on your own research. There is a lot of debate in the proffessional community right now about how different vaccines effect people, so it is totally reasonable to me to see many people opting out until a more clear concensus can be made.

Except that by opting not to get some vaccinations, they're not just choosing for "themselves". Re-read what I underlined. There was an actual case of that happening to an immunocompromised kid at an amusement park who contracted measles. There's a reason you don't see a bunch of people dying from smallpox, measles, and polio - vaccinations.

Now in the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, I do think it was rushed & I'm unsure how effective it was. I do know it did not stop anyone from getting it. I had several vaccinated co-workers that contracted COVID-19 multiple times. I'm usually pretty resistant and I contracted it regardless of being vaccinated. As for if being vaccinated for COVID-19 reduced the effects of it - possibly. Most of the fatalities among the patients we saw were among people with other serious health issues like COPD, Heart disease, Diabetes, Obesity, or combinations of them. I took my initial 2 COVID-19 vaccinations because it was required. After that though I did not follow up with anymore - nor did my hospital, or any of the others around the country require it. The science was no longer supporting the effectiveness of the follow up vaccinations to the mutating COVID-19 strains.

It's all going to be coming back in force sooner than later.

Somehow I feel that is the gameplan....

People just don't get it, nor do they realize the ramifications of what they are supporting.

But they will, and it may just be too late, but that remains to be seen.

[Mushroom]

fear·mon·ger·ing
/ˈfirˌməNGəriNG/
• noun
• the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue.
"he was engaging in pure fearmongering that just might frighten folks into complying"

[paladin]

Covid vaccine was rushed, imho. I don't blame anyone for not getting it. My wife & I were forced to get them as an "essential worker." We had the 1st shot + booster. No others since. I haven't had Covid, my wife, caught it once, very mild relatively. Don't know how much of that is attributable to the jabs.

Having said that, I was born in the 60's and I think vaccines are, arguably, the greatest medical advancement to mankind! I've had all my shots, from smallpox on up! I'm going to get Shingrix very soon. I had my sons fully vaxxed for everything from MMR, chicken pox, even HPV. No autism or ill effects in any of them-- mof, only strong immunity as a result!

Measles was effectively eradicated, but now seeking a foothold once again. I feel like a lot of folks who kick against their immunizations have never seen a child with whooping cough, measles, diphtheria, or other sundry maladies that can maim or kill-- effectively we are spoiled from the benefits of vaccines. However, I can still remember from my childhood, folks in iron lungs and walking with braces and crutches from polio. Truly the stuff nightmares are made of.

Even if the law allows one to forgo shots, for any reason, it is a very selfish position to take. I feel like these are the type of folks who, when they DO contract infections, also want to be fast-tracked at the ER ahead of everyone else regardless of their triage status. You can argue with me, but I WITNESSED IT during Covid, especially Delta variant!

[Ankerson]

Covid vaccine was rushed, imho. I don't blame anyone for not getting it. My wife & I were forced to get them as an "essential worker." We had the 1st shot + booster. No others since. I haven't had Covid, my wife, caught it once, very mild relatively. Don't know how much of that is attributable to the jabs.

Having said that, I was born in the 60's and I think vaccines are, arguably, the greatest medical advancement to mankind! I've had all my shots, from smallpox on up! I'm going to get Shingrix very soon. I had my sons fully vaxxed for everything from MMR, chicken pox, even HPV. No autism or ill effects in any of them-- mof, only strong immunity as a result!

Measles was effectively eradicated, but now seeking a foothold once again. I feel like a lot of folks who kick against their immunizations have never seen a child with whooping cough, measles, diphtheria, or other sundry maladies that can maim or kill-- effectively we are spoiled from the benefits of vaccines. However, I can still remember from my childhood, folks in iron lungs and walking with braces and crutches from polio. Truly the stuff nightmares are made of.

Even if the law allows one to forgo shots, for any reason, it is a very selfish position to take. I feel like these are the type of folks who, when they DO contract infections, also want to be fast-tracked at the ER ahead of everyone else regardless of their triage status. You can argue with me, but I WITNESSED IT during Covid, especially Delta variant!

If I had my way those types would be last on the list to get any vaccines or any sort of medical care.

And after 10 years of studies are done.

But the herd immunity should work right? So they don't need any vaccines or cures. Or masks for that matter, heaven forbid they wear a mask.

They can take some horse dewormer.

Or Clorox.

So nope, come back and see us in 10 years...

[Scandi Grind]

Except that by opting not to get some vaccinations, they're not just choosing for "themselves". Re-read what I underlined. There was an actual case of that happening to an immunocompromised kid at an amusement park who contracted measles. There's a reason you don't see a bunch of people dying from smallpox, measles, and polio - vaccinations.

Now in the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, I do think it was rushed & I'm unsure how effective it was. I do know it did not stop anyone from getting it. I had several vaccinated co-workers that contracted COVID-19 multiple times. I'm usually pretty resistant and I contracted it regardless of being vaccinated. As for if being vaccinated for COVID-19 reduced the effects of it - possibly. Most of the fatalities among the patients we saw were among people with other serious health issues like COPD, Heart disease, Diabetes, Obesity, or combinations of them. I took my initial 2 COVID-19 vaccinations because it was required. After that though I did not follow up with anymore - nor did my hospital, or any of the others around the country require it. The science was no longer supporting the effectiveness of the follow up vaccinations to the mutating COVID-19 strains.

I am not the kind of person who thinks that the concept of vaccines is bad. They have done great things for people all over the world. What started to bug me was that vaccines began resembling less and less what I was taught in school was the technical deffinition of a vaccine. The word slowly seemed to be made into anything that might cure a disease, rather than the strict deffinition of a vaccine. I don't know if that is just incidental loosness of deffinition, or if the deffinition gets used differently now, but the Covid vaccine seemed very different in some of it's approach from what I had seen before. Your evaluation actually seems pretty similar to mine as far as how the vaccine has run it's course so far.

I actually caught Covid, and it was much like a bad flu for me, worse for my parents, but I recovered to my typical norm, although somewhat slowly. The slowness was probably patially due to the fact that I happen to have a compromised immune system myself. Because of that I tend to get sick at least 3 times a year with various odd symtoms. I once got to the point of calapsing completely out of the blue, so I can represent a specific catagory of immune compromised people. But again, I am not the kind that thinks any vaccine is bad, just certain developments caused me to be very cautious moving forward.

[Ankerson]

Except that by opting not to get some vaccinations, they're not just choosing for "themselves". Re-read what I underlined. There was an actual case of that happening to an immunocompromised kid at an amusement park who contracted measles. There's a reason you don't see a bunch of people dying from smallpox, measles, and polio - vaccinations.

Now in the case of the COVID-19 vaccine, I do think it was rushed & I'm unsure how effective it was. I do know it did not stop anyone from getting it. I had several vaccinated co-workers that contracted COVID-19 multiple times. I'm usually pretty resistant and I contracted it regardless of being vaccinated. As for if being vaccinated for COVID-19 reduced the effects of it - possibly. Most of the fatalities among the patients we saw were among people with other serious health issues like COPD, Heart disease, Diabetes, Obesity, or combinations of them. I took my initial 2 COVID-19 vaccinations because it was required. After that though I did not follow up with anymore - nor did my hospital, or any of the others around the country require it. The science was no longer supporting the effectiveness of the follow up vaccinations to the mutating COVID-19 strains.

I am not the kind of person who thinks that the concept of vaccines is bad. They have done great things for people all over the world. What started to bug me was that vaccines began resembling less and less what I was taught in school was the technical deffinition of a vaccine. The word slowly seemed to be made into anything that might cure a disease, rather than the strict deffinition of a vaccine. I don't know if that is just incidental loosness of deffinition, or if the deffinition gets used differently now, but the Covid vaccine seemed very different in some of it's approach from what I had seen before. Your evaluation actually seems pretty similar to mine as far as how the vaccine has run it's course so far.

I actually caught Covid, and it was much like a bad flu for me, worse for my parents, but I recovered to my typical norm, although somewhat slowly. The slowness was probably patially due to the fact that I happen to have a compromised immune system myself. Because of that I tend to get sick at least 3 times a year with various odd symtoms. I once got to the point of calapsing completely out of the blue, so I can represent a specific catagory of immune compromised people. But again, I am not the kind that thinks any vaccine is bad, just certain developments caused me to be very cautious moving forward.

A vaccine is not a cure.

Anti-Viral's are actual cures for viruses.

A Vaccine is a preventive measure that either prevents one from getting infected by boosting their immune system or they can still get infected, but with greatly reduced symptoms.

[Scandi Grind]

A Vaccine is a preventive measure that either prevents one from getting infected by boosting their immune system or they can still get infected, but with greatly reduced symptoms.

Yes, that is my understanding of a vaccine. Similar treatment used to be administered in the form of inoculation, which could be an infected string litterally put in an open cut. This was not very controlled so it was much more dangerous than vaccine injections and often resulted in a full strength sickness. The advantage over just catching the sickness naturally was that you could get yourself properly prepared for it, and you could get inoculated out of season so that you wouldn't be sick at the time that all the doctors would be overwhelmed with work.

Vaccines were a much safer way to administer the same type of treatment, but they are getting more added to them over time than merely the disease we want our bodies to develop immunity to.