Making the most of what you’ve got

[Red Leader]

...little bits of metal shaped a bit like the point of a hypodermic needle but about as thick as a beard hair.

That sounds horrific lol. But someone has to be willing to do the hard work! I salute you.

[JoviAl]

...little bits of metal shaped a bit like the point of a hypodermic needle but about as thick as a beard hair.

That sounds horrific lol. But someone has to be willing to do the hard work! I salute you.

I’ve started wearing socks in my slides recently, so who says old dogs can’t learn new tricks?

[Red Leader]

...little bits of metal shaped a bit like the point of a hypodermic needle but about as thick as a beard hair.

That sounds horrific lol. But someone has to be willing to do the hard work! I salute you.

I’ve started wearing socks in my slides recently, so who says old dogs can’t learn new tricks?

So, something from your original post starting this thread piqued a memory for me. When I was learning about the Carothers BFK I had watched a video in which Nathan (bladesmith) demonstrated a very similar technique from your initial comment.

I found that vid - if you start watching at 4:43 or so, he discusses the way he designed the handle to have a flair at the end to allow for a smaller grip at the butt to get more effective length out of the knife for better practical chopping applications - exactly what you were doing.



I would even argue that the Jumpmaster takes that design and amplifies it because of just how much the handle at the end of the knife wraps down and creates an even more scure secondary grip.

Nathan is a renowned bladesmith and his blades and swords are used in the competition world where people are doing some pretty ferocious swinging. Not that they are doing it with the BFK, but he has a carefuland thoughtful design approach and can be trusted as from a subject matter expert. I can see how if you used this technique with a straight handled knife, with micarta scales soaked in water, yeah it would be dumb haha. But you have arguably the best knife design in the entire world for this sort of thing. That pommel swell(?) and FRN...its a sweet combo. I have a Carothers BFK and have held the Jumpmaster and would argue that the JM makes this technique even easier.

I think that some of the main critiques in this thread have somewhat of a 'black-and-white' optic on this issue, but there are so many shades that color this discussion, the knife design not being the least.

[JoviAl]

...little bits of metal shaped a bit like the point of a hypodermic needle but about as thick as a beard hair.

That sounds horrific lol. But someone has to be willing to do the hard work! I salute you.

I’ve started wearing socks in my slides recently, so who says old dogs can’t learn new tricks?

So, something from your original post starting this thread piqued a memory for me. When I was learning about the Carothers BFK I had watched a video in which Nathan (bladesmith) demonstrated a very similar technique from your initial comment.

I found that vid - if you start watching at 4:43 or so, he discusses the way he designed the handle to have a flair at the end to allow for a smaller grip at the butt to get more effective length out of the knife for better practical chopping applications - exactly what you were doing.



I would even argue that the Jumpmaster takes that design and amplifies it because of just how much the handle at the end of the knife wraps down and creates an even more scure secondary grip.

Nathan is a renowned bladesmith and his blades and swords are used in the competition world where people are doing some pretty ferocious swinging. Not that they are doing it with the BFK, but he has a carefuland thoughtful design approach and can be trusted as from a subject matter expert. I can see how if you used this technique with a straight handled knife, with micarta scales soaked in water, yeah it would be dumb haha. But you have arguably the best knife design in the entire world for this sort of thing. That pommel swell(?) and FRN...its a sweet combo. I have a Carothers BFK and have held the Jumpmaster and would argue that the JM makes this technique even easier.

I think that some of the main critiques in this thread have somewhat of a 'black-and-white' optic on this issue, but there are so many shades that color this discussion, the knife design not being the least.

I hadn’t come across Nathan before (I don’t tend to watch much knife stuff on YouTube) but it is interesting that other knife makers are accommodating for doing the same thing in their designs.

What I really prize about the JM2 is that it is such a compact tool, it is mega stainless (I live in the tropics) and it is serrated. I find serrations on knives for hacking to be terrifically effective as they seem to grab a hold of the material (usually green wood, coconut palm fronds or banana stems in my case) and transfer an enormous amount of force into the cut, whereas a PE edged machete often deflects or sort of slides ineffectually in the cut once it’s initial momentum is spent. I really think there’s a lot of potential in an SE H1/2 Kukri or Parang design aimed at commercial users.

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

[Red Leader]

That sounds horrific lol. But someone has to be willing to do the hard work! I salute you.

I’ve started wearing socks in my slides recently, so who says old dogs can’t learn new tricks?

So, something from your original post starting this thread piqued a memory for me. When I was learning about the Carothers BFK I had watched a video in which Nathan (bladesmith) demonstrated a very similar technique from your initial comment.

I found that vid - if you start watching at 4:43 or so, he discusses the way he designed the handle to have a flair at the end to allow for a smaller grip at the butt to get more effective length out of the knife for better practical chopping applications - exactly what you were doing.



I would even argue that the Jumpmaster takes that design and amplifies it because of just how much the handle at the end of the knife wraps down and creates an even more scure secondary grip.

Nathan is a renowned bladesmith and his blades and swords are used in the competition world where people are doing some pretty ferocious swinging. Not that they are doing it with the BFK, but he has a carefuland thoughtful design approach and can be trusted as from a subject matter expert. I can see how if you used this technique with a straight handled knife, with micarta scales soaked in water, yeah it would be dumb haha. But you have arguably the best knife design in the entire world for this sort of thing. That pommel swell(?) and FRN...its a sweet combo. I have a Carothers BFK and have held the Jumpmaster and would argue that the JM makes this technique even easier.

I think that some of the main critiques in this thread have somewhat of a 'black-and-white' optic on this issue, but there are so many shades that color this discussion, the knife design not being the least.

I hadn’t come across Nathan before (I don’t tend to watch much knife stuff on YouTube) but it is interesting that other knife makers are accommodating for doing the same thing in their designs.

What I really prize about the JM2 is that it is such a compact tool, it is mega stainless (I live in the tropics) and it is serrated. I find serrations on knives for hacking to be terrifically effective as they seem to grab a hold of the material (usually green wood, coconut palm fronds or banana stems in my case) and transfer an enormous amount of force into the cut, whereas a PE edged machete often deflects or sort of slides ineffectually in the cut once it’s initial momentum is spent. I really think there’s a lot of potential in an SE H1/2 Kukri or Parang design aimed at commercial users.

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

I don't know if Nathan has ever tested serrations in a high end competition world, but that would be something, wouldn't it? We know the power of serrations in draw cutting, but I wonder just what it's capabilities look like with push cutting and chopping.

Hmmm...you've got me thinking now about what serrations do in the sort of scenario you proposed, something like de-limbing (trees, not arms!). I've never tried that task w/ a SE, but this forum in particular has opened my eyes to the merits of a good SE, and my first venture into K390 was a Jumpmaster K390 SE, and it is a pocket beast.

My son has really taken to the JM2 ever since he handled it at the SFO, and now it is on his want list. It's funny, what ends up being on his list, ends up making it onto mine as well...Para 3 15V, Spydiechef, now the JM2...

I'm not copycatting...I'm just recognizing good taste! haha

[Mushroom]

@Red Leader

No, and with all due respect, can you please stop redirecting this into some sort of social justice experiment? No one here is a victim. Disagreement does not equal disrespect. We are still discussing the original topic. You're not going to make us feel guilty for offering respectful critique of the techniques discussed here. This is a discussion forum, not an echo chamber. If having a discussion is really the goal, asking others to move on for respectfully disagreeing doesn’t make much sense.

You guys are making this out to be way more than it needed to be. The original point was clear from the start - the technique in question isn’t recommended. Simple as that. (The obvious reason being increased risk of injury.)

Nick, you obviously have more time and experience on this forum, and probably from actual knife use too, compared to me. I'm pretty much a nobody and you are very much a senior member. In fact, I've probably learned several things from you in other threads. Sounds like we are all knife nerds and enjoy the conversing. My name is Dave, btw.

I have cut myself far more times simply operating a folding knife than from any specific technique. Hard truths from the 'handle forward' crew lol. I think using a folder, in general, is probably far more risky and dangerous than a fixed blade, and simply having knives likely increases the risk of being cut versus having no knives at all. So to a certain end, there is an assumption of risk within this corner of the world we are operating in, and that I'm sure we are all aware of.

Most of the time that I have cut myself, it was from closing the knife edge on my finger, mainly silly rookie mistakes. It is a skill issue on part. No insinuation here.

Continuing to drive the point that these techniques are not recommended, when not a single person in this thread is recommending anything, in my small opinion increases the signal-to-noise ratio in this thread. And if we are talking risky techniques, you would have been horrified by the way I cut a bagel this morning haha. I don't think it helpful trying to equate these techniques to driving 120mph in a school zone (and potentially killing scores of children?) because nobody on this earth is going to argue against that point and it comes off to me more as a strawman argument.

If the goal is to warn people that what their doing is wrong or dangerous, fair. And also, why? What is the point? Are we all not adults, that are capable of our own risk management, within our own sphere of experience and skill level? I would (respectfully) argue that your warning is not needed.

If the goal is to convince people that what they are doing is dangerous or risky to themselves, based on your standard, I'm not seeing a persuasive argument. Or, if the goal is to warn newcomers who see this thread that these are not simply things to try with a knife willy nilly, then I find it admirable I'm open to that line of thinking.

And if what I said about 'naysayers leave the thread' came off disrespectfully, then I apologize, I didn't mean it in a condescening or sarcastic way. It just sort of came off like people were being treated like children for their views and I didn't like it. I have no way to convince you of my own good faith or anything here, but I hope we can talk, discuss, debate, or disagree and all come away whole and/or better for it. I'm okay to hear the dissent, and the philosophical side of the argument is interesting to me.

Thank you for your thoughts, even if we disagree on some. I'm sure we have far more that we agree on. And thanks for opening my eyes to the PPT, didn't know about that one before you.

Dave, I appreciate the kind words but please do not mistake my forum obsession and inability to know when to shutup as any sort of seniority here. I'm a nobody as well but still we all have valuable input to provide here.

I’ll just add that sharing a knife technique, particularly in a thread like this where they may be new to many readers, can sometimes be perceived as an implicit suggestion, even if that wasn't the intention.

You're correct - we are adults and a warning about using our knives is not needed but on the same coin, we are adults and saying something is "inadvisable" should not be misconstrued as some form of bullying.

The analogy was not meant to showcase an equivalent outcome but rather to clearly illustrate the idea that past success does not eliminate inherent risk. (Which is the main assertion being made about the technique in question.) Dodging a bullet doesn't make me bullet proof.

Would Spyderco endorse holding, choking up on, the sharp edge while using their knives?

► Show Spoiler

(Short answer: No)
(Long answer: Noooooo)

Also, glad to hear you like the PPT. Fun fact: The PPT is the greatest knife Spyderco has ever produced.

[Mushroom]

Anyway, I don't mean to keep being off topic -

I'm gonna go with my toe knife. I use a sharp blade to dig the scum out of my toenails. Once in a while I cut myself but it pusses up in about three days and I'm good as new.

[Synov]

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

Nathan does not do custom orders (he considers himself a machinist, not a custom knifemaker). He has done a longer field knife, called the HDFK, but he probably has a dim view of serrations for his preferred use case and has never done them on his knives. You may be able to find an HDFK on BladeForums.

[JoviAl]

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

Nathan does not do custom orders (he considers himself a machinist, not a custom knifemaker). He has done a longer field knife, called the HDFK, but he probably has a dim view of serrations for his preferred use case and has never done them on his knives. You may be able to find an HDFK on BladeForums.

Thanks! I’ll take a look. I can grind serrations myself, but they’ll not be as aesthetically pleasing as something someone’s done with a jig and a wheel (I’ll use diamond burrs on my Foredom).

[Synov]

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

Nathan does not do custom orders (he considers himself a machinist, not a custom knifemaker). He has done a longer field knife, called the HDFK, but he probably has a dim view of serrations for his preferred use case and has never done them on his knives. You may be able to find an HDFK on BladeForums.

Thanks! I’ll take a look. I can grind serrations myself, but they’ll not be as aesthetically pleasing as something someone’s done with a jig and a wheel (I’ll use diamond burrs on my Foredom).

I know Josh at REK will put very nice serrations on a Carothers if you want. It's important to use a water cooling system to not ruin the heat treat.

[JoviAl]

Anyhow, I’m getting off topic. Thank you for sharing that video I wonder if Nathan might be open to doing me a slightly longer BFK with serrations?

Nathan does not do custom orders (he considers himself a machinist, not a custom knifemaker). He has done a longer field knife, called the HDFK, but he probably has a dim view of serrations for his preferred use case and has never done them on his knives. You may be able to find an HDFK on BladeForums.

Thanks! I’ll take a look. I can grind serrations myself, but they’ll not be as aesthetically pleasing as something someone’s done with a jig and a wheel (I’ll use diamond burrs on my Foredom).

I know Josh at REK will put very nice serrations on a Carothers if you want. It's important to use a water cooling system to not ruin the heat treat.

I’ve been looking for someone who does aftermarket serrations for ages (admittedly not very hard ). Thank you

[Wartstein]

@Wartstein
I’m still a bit confused. Your explanations seem to suggest that you are aware of the potential risk involved with that technique but it also feels like you’re carefully avoiding saying that directly.

It’s not a theory that the edge of the knife is what does the cutting. I just find it difficult to understand how you can honestly suggest that there is no risk involved when placing fingers directly on the edge of the knife during use.

It often seems like when the words “dangerous” or “risk” come up, you insist that knives are somehow exempt from being those things just because you have personal experience using them safely in the past.

The number of times you’ve done it safely in the past is irrelevant. Anecdotes are not evidence. The fact is that doing it at all significantly increases the potential risk of injury and it’s completely reasonable to acknowledge that. I think the risk involved is truly why you don’t recommend it, even though you won’t outright say that.

Here is an analogy to highlight the flaw I’m seeing with the logic being presented - I know the speed limit is 20mph in a small residential neighborhood but sometimes drive 120mph through the neighborhood because it gets me where I’m going faster and I’ve done it before without anything going wrong. It is not dangerous because I’ve done it before.

Ultimately, whatever our reasons may be, I think we’re actually in agreement on that technique though - it is not good advice that should be broadly recommended. Anyone who chooses to try it, should do so at their own risk.

Thanks for your constructive reply, Nick!

I think I still did not fully get my point across (might be cause English is not my first language):

- Sure, there is a potential risk involved with this technique, and I pointed that out clearly by saying "just by statistics a few would get hurt when trying it out first" [getting used to it]

But not more than with quite some other techniques of using a knife, regardless if they are common (yet) or not.

One of several examples would be closing a folder one handed:
Imagine almost all people would use two hands, and then one would come along and suggest "hey, you can do it one handed" and show techniques that work for just that: Definitely many would say "man,this looks dangerous" and a few would indeed hurt themselves when trying it out, just by statistics (not move the fingers out of the blade path, drop the knife on their foot, whatever).

Gripping a knife on the very cutting edge with lets say two fingers and two fingers on the handle if done rightly in my honest experience (!!) even poses LESS risk of getting hurt than closing a folder one handed (which also is really safe of course...again if done rightly). (Though, to be perfectly clear: YES, choking up on the cutting edge statistically of course "increases the risk of injury" compared to gripping only the handle!)

If this technique would bring a huge benefit I definitely WOULD recommend trying it out - it is really no problem, I am not a "magician", my dexterity is average, my hands are though not totally "soft office hands" still not the hardest and most callused in the world. I am just an average knife user, can´t do anything special, and the technique works perfectly well for me without any problems all the time (while I actually HAVE cut myself a few times, especially when I was newer to knives, when closing folders one handed).
Intuitively it just LOOKS "unusual" and "dangerous" to most who have not tried themselves (and, without going into details: It really can be tried safely if one chooses to do so... Anyone who wants to just pm me).

Again, it is just not worth it recommending it cause it does not bring a huge benefit (differently closing a folder one handed WOULD be worth recommending for me if almost no one else did it)
I KNOW for a fact that others here use that technique too without any problems but refrain from talking about it on this forum.

I am just a bit puzzled that in this very case people seem to KNOW that bad things will happen just because the technique LOOKS dangerous (which it admittedly does).
I though KNOW that it works cause - as an completely average guy - I not only just tried it, but use it all the time without any problems. I think that does prove something, right because I am just an average Joe...
All I am asking is that people who have not actually tried themselves don´t judge one like me who HAS.
I´d really have no reason whatsoever to talk about this technique in the way I do if I did not really know what I am talking about (and, again: On the flipside I always try to make clear when I DON`T (mostly when it comes to steels, high levels of sharpening skills, detailed knowledge about the Spyderco history and so on).

I know that the following example is not the best, cause it lacks the potential risk component:

But imagine you´d sharpen serrated folders with ease all the time on a sharpmaker.
But most here would still say: "Sharpening serrations is so hard and complicated" though never actually TRYING it themselves.
Wouldn´t you be like: "Folks, with all due respect: I KNOW that it is not hard, just cause I do it all the time no problem? And it´s clear that it works NOT because I could do something special that others can´t"?

So, to wrap this up: I have refrained many times from talking about this since the thread I started years ago.
Thought this was the thread I could again.
Have learned for good now that this forum is not the place for this specific topic and will not bring it up again.

[Paul Ardbeg]

Ok, this is a weird one and not about the blade. We all know what G10 does to jeans pockets, and as a joke I once said G10 scales can be used as a nail file....It actually works....

[JoviAl]

Ok, this is a weird one and not about the blade. We all know what G10 does to jeans pockets, and as a joke I once said G10 scales can be used as a nail file....It actually works....

As an avid rock climber this is top information! Damaged nails is a constant hassle to repair.

[Mat_ski]

Ok, this is a weird one and not about the blade. We all know what G10 does to jeans pockets, and as a joke I once said G10 scales can be used as a nail file....It actually works....

As an avid rock climber this is top information! Damaged nails is a constant hassle to repair.

Since we are sharing, I used the backside of the Salt 2 blade tip as a flathead screwdriver. Works alright…