laguiole-ramco VS ramco-laguiole RAFFLE!

[Marco72]

Hi Guys
I would like to ask a simple question, why on some blades the writing laguiole-ramco and on others ramco-laguiole? I am clearly talking about the spyderco laguiole, can any historian of the forum give me an answer?
I don't want to rekindle old discussions but when I read that the Spyderco Laguiole is not considered a Spyderco I browse through this catalog and read: "Spyerco INC." I become thoughtful, then folks, everyone thinks as they want
thanks again

[SpyderEdgeForever]

We need these models remade.

[Marco72]

I had read about something like this 4/5 years ago. Sal had asked some questions about the actual need for a new model, but for now still nothing. As for the writings on the blade I think I understood, they refer to Japanese or French production, that is, the period when they were built, tell me if I'm wrong.

[Ramonade]

And now that Laguiole is finally a geologically protected model, I don't know how it would go.

edit : I meant geographically, sorry !

[Danke]

Don't mess with the bees.

[Reject]

I’ve long wondered that myself.
But never got around to asking.

[N. Brian Huegel]

Hi Guys
I would like to ask a simple question, why on some blades the writing laguiole-ramco and on others ramco-laguiole? I am clearly talking about the spyderco laguiole, can any historian of the forum give me an answer?
I don't want to rekindle old discussions but when I read that the Spyderco Laguiole is not considered a Spyderco I browse through this catalog and read: "Spyerco INC." I become thoughtful, then folks, everyone thinks as they want
thanks again

Different marking; Laguiole-Ramco v/s Ramco-Laguiole was most likely a language barrier / translation error.

nb

[N. Brian Huegel]

And now that Laguiole is finally a geologically protected model, I don't know how it would go.

Protected?? In France? In Laguiole and/or Thiers? More information plears.

nb

[N. Brian Huegel]

And now that Laguiole is finally a geologically protected model, I don't know how it would go.

Protected?? In France? In Laguiole and/or Thiers? More information please.

nb

[Ramonade]

And now that Laguiole is finally a geologically protected model, I don't know how it would go.

Protected?? In France? In Laguiole and/or Thiers? More information please.

nb

Both actually. The Laguiole model is obviously from the town of Laguiole, but nothing protected it for decades. That's why we saw so many made by makers and companies inside and outside of France. It fell into public domain because it wasn't protected by patents in time.

For more than a decade though, knife makers from Thiers and Laguiole militated for it to get the "IGP" label (Indication Géographique Protégée), meaning that this model is patrimonial to this or that region of France. So, since 2022, the Laguiole knife model is protected and can be produced in one of the 24 counties in the North of Aveyron.

Could still be a collaboration with Laguiole revisited by Sal or Eric, and a french production !

[p_atrick]

Both actually. The Laguiole model is obviously from the town of Laguiole, but nothing protected it for decades. That's why we saw so many made by makers and companies inside and outside of France. It fell into public domain because it wasn't protected by patents in time.

For more than a decade though, knife makers from Thiers and Laguiole militated for it to get the "IGP" label (Indication Géographique Protégée), meaning that this model is patrimonial to this or that region of France. So, since 2022, the Laguiole knife model is protected and can be produced in one of the 24 counties in the North of Aveyron.

Could still be a collaboration with Laguiole revisited by Sal or Eric, and a french production !

So is IGP the AOC equivalent but for physical goods (not food items)?

[Marco72]

Could still be a collaboration with Laguiole revisited by Sal or Eric, and a french production !

in an old post if I'm not mistaken, Sal stated that the assembly quality in France did not meet the standards and was very unusual for Spyderco and he was forced to have them built in Japan.

The Laguiole knife is not protected by copyright. The name "Laguiole" is a generic name for a French region where this type of knife originated. This means that anyone can use the name, but you cannot copy the shape and characteristics of a real Laguiole knife.

The Union of Laguiole knife manufacturers of Aveyron was created in 2014, the year of publication of law no. 2014-344 of 17 March 2014 relating to consumption, published on 18 March 2014 in the JORF. The main purpose of this law is to extend geographical indications for non-agricultural products (IG PIA).

[Marco72]

So is IGP the AOC equivalent but for physical goods (not food items)?
Top

The main purpose of this law is to extend geographical indications for non-agricultural products (IG PIA).

[Ramonade]

So is IGP the AOC equivalent but for physical goods (not food items)?

@Hic et nunc said it, which mean that you could theorically made a derivated design from it, but that would not be interesting in my opinion.

And yeah I remember reading something about it too Hic. Being french I've handled many Laguiole knives in my life and only a very few were "good". Most industrial made Laguioles have the blade hitting the spring because the kick of the blade is not thought out correctly, the steel wasn't that well heat treated, and more .
Custom makers do wonders though, but that would be another thing.

As far as making the Ramco Laguiole come back exactly as it was before, I do not know. The backlock might help make it "something else" in the eyes of the law, but I saw so many variations of the Laguiole that it's hard to tell.
The IGP asks 24 specs to be respected, so maybe if it's out of those specs you can do whatever you like.

[Marco72]

They are right to protect local craftsmanship that is passed down from fathers to sons, as in Italy I could give you the example of the Pattada historical knife, and many others that are present at a regional level. Whether you use the shape or the intellectual property of the knife, it is good to know that you are using something that belongs to the history linked to the geography of the place and in any case it is equally beautiful to see producers (even at a semi-industrial level) who shape it in their own way (steels, block materials). But I repeat, always knowing that you are using something historical that should not be distorted. This is true poetry that marries the broader scope of the future vision. After all, Spyderco has done this, it also works in this direction, after all we can't just buy Chinese knives

[N. Brian Huegel]

I wonder if France allows the EU ruling for cutlery country of origin that Germany uses, that is, if a cutlery item (mostly knives and scissors) that arrives in Germany from China, Pakistan, Italy, etc. is unsharpened and then is sharpened in Germany (JA Henckels is the most egregious) that item does not need to be marked with the country of origin, but with the country, i.e., Germany, where the product has been sharpened (finished) and packaged. Henkels and others have done this for over 30 years! I have seen dozens of laguiole steak knives and folders that were obviously made in Pakistan, but marked France and purchased in France. :|

nb

[Marco72]

The european union deserves extinction. Absurd rules force our manufacturing, food and even industry to shoot themselves in the foot, opening up to practically everyone, the story of electric cars is the most sensational, we import chinese cars and force bmw, mercedes and volkswagen to the brink, what a shame

[sal]

The model has an interesting history. I'm a bit snowed right now getting ready for the Blade show. I'll try to get it posted soon.

sal

[aicolainen]

The model has an interesting history. I'm a bit snowed right now getting ready for the Blade show. I'll try to get it posted soon.

sal

I think I understand what your trying to communicate, Sal. But that's definitively not the mental picture that materialized in my head

Best of luck with Blade!

[Ramonade]

I wonder if France allows the EU ruling for cutlery country of origin that Germany uses, that is, if a cutlery item (mostly knives and scissors) that arrives in Germany from China, Pakistan, Italy, etc. is unsharpened and then is sharpened in Germany (JA Henckels is the most egregious) that item does not need to be marked with the country of origin, but with the country, i.e., Germany, where the product has been sharpened (finished) and packaged. Henkels and others have done this for over 30 years! I have seen dozens of laguiole steak knives and folders that were obviously made in Pakistan, but marked France and purchased in France. :|

nb

No real cutlery brand from France made Laguiole outside of France. But, without entering too much into politics, that wouldn't stop the usual suspects from making counterfeits. The problem is that they could do this with total impunity and even be sold by regular channels for decades since the model itself had no protection. Most french homes now have a laguiole or two and most of the time it's fake.

It did a lot of damage for the makers of Laguiole, the department around Laguiole (which is called Aveyron) and even Thiers, the "capitol" of cutlery in France, where most makers moved their production to centralize tools and workers way back then.

It's only since the IGP that the brands that used to make fake Laguiole are banned from selling in France, so I can let you imagine the hundred of thousands of Fakiole in the world !