Seki City back lock quality in 2022?

[RazorSharp86]

Every one I ever had(and I’ve bought at least a few every year for almost 2 decades) have had one issue or another.
Most recently, texture on FRN has not been crisp, lock rock, rang rubbing on i side of scales, offset centering, etc.
still the best ergos, steel choices and design choices out there. Everything is relative.

[Paul Ardbeg]

About the lock rock....how bad is it? Do you really feel it when using the knife? The ones I have, some you really need to force it and then we are talking about minuit play, something not experienced when using the knife at all.

[vivi]

About the lock rock....how bad is it? Do you really feel it when using the knife? The ones I have, some you really need to force it and then we are talking about minuit play, something not experienced when using the knife at all.

I don't own a lockback from Spyderco where I don't notice it during use.

I've been buying Spyderco lockbacks for 20 years and have never come across one that could cut an apple in half without showing lock rock.

This goes for every country of origin too - it 100% isn't exclusive to seki. All my chiefs. All my Byrds. etc.

[James Y]

Lock rock with back locks/lockbacks definitely is NOT exclusive to Seki-made knives. The lockbacks I've personally owned that have had THE worst lock rock were made in the USA by a world-famous American company, that popularized the modern lockback worldwide in the 1960s.

I would add that the Seki backlocks I bought in more recent years have had far less lock rock than the ones i bought back in the late '90s/early 2K. Many have had virtually no lock rock at all.

Jim

[Paul Ardbeg]

About the lock rock....how bad is it? Do you really feel it when using the knife? The ones I have, some you really need to force it and then we are talking about minuit play, something not experienced when using the knife at all.

I don't own a lockback from Spyderco where I don't notice it during use.

I've been buying Spyderco lockbacks for 20 years and have never come across one that could cut an apple in half without showing lock rock.

This goes for every country of origin too - it 100% isn't exclusive to seki. All my chiefs. All my Byrds. etc.

I can feel my Endura has minuit play but you really need to put a lot of force on it. I don't notice play when for instance cutting cardboard. I just pressed the blad in a piece of wood and then you feel it.

If you already feel it when slicing an apple, that's a different story. Does the play get a lot worse over the years?

My Chaps have zero play. I'm getting a third Chap this afternoon and will check for play on that one.

[Bearcat1]

After I saw this thread I had to check several K390 knives. I did see the chip as shown in the pictures previously in about 1/3 of the knives. I also did check for lock rock and noticed it in about 1/3 of the knives. I did not notice the lock rock before in the lock back knives and I have several (Stretch, Stretch 2, Delica, Endela).

I am not sure either of the issues bother me but I had to check it out after reading about it.

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

I haven't experienced lock rock with any of the three Pacifics I've used (two of which I used regularly). Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I don't use my Seki lock backs as hard as others? Who knows. I'll take a look at my Stretch 2XL's lock-up when it inevitably arrives from Dack and see how it compares.

[Wartstein]

I haven't experienced lock rock with any of the three Pacifics I've used (two of which I used regularly). Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I don't use my Seki lock backs as hard as others? Who knows. I'll take a look at my Stretch 2XL's lock-up when it inevitably arrives from Dack and see how it compares.

Experiencing, like in noticing lockrock is something different than backlock folders actually having it imo..

Some time ago I would spontaneously have said that none of my backlock Spydies had lockrock - cause I did not notice it at all and it did not bother me at all (and, as a matter of fact STILL does not bother me in the slightest, is not an issue at all for me personally and I still don´t really notice it in use).

But when really looking for lockrock, for example by pushing the edge on a cutting board, like @vivi said all my backlocks have some degree of it, except my Chaparrals (with their internal stop pins).
(Aside from the Chap I only have Seki backlocks these days)

[aicolainen]

As this thread goes back some time, I’m not going to quote anyone, but generally comment on something stated several times in this thread, and on other knife/EDC forums since I got into folding knives:
“Tri-ad locks are hard to disengage”.

My CS Tri-ad lock sample size is only one, an American Lawman S35VN from approx. 2020.
It has one of the smoothest back lock actions of any knife I own. For all I know my sample could be an outlier, but if it’s even close to average I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone could find these knives hard to operate one handed. It is for other reasons entirely that this knife sees much less use than my Spydercos

As for Spyderco lock backs, my experience matches Wartstein. Don’t notice any lock rock unless I look for it. If I do, it’s more noticeable on Seki models than Golden bl’s. I think my Native 5s are as good as it gets without a stop pin. Lock rock is almost undetectable. My Chaparral does not have noticeable lock rock.

[aicolainen]

... but perhaps someday also in a "Lil Tatanka"? (see here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91905#p1605159)

Ohh..

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

I haven't experienced lock rock with any of the three Pacifics I've used (two of which I used regularly). Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I don't use my Seki lock backs as hard as others? Who knows. I'll take a look at my Stretch 2XL's lock-up when it inevitably arrives from Dack and see how it compares.

Experiencing, like in noticing lockrock is something different than backlock folders actually having it imo..

Some time ago I would spontaneously have said that none of my backlock Spydies had lockrock - cause I did not notice it at all and it did not bother me at all (and, as a matter of fact STILL does not bother me in the slightest, is not an issue at all for me personally and I still don´t really notice it in use).

But when really looking for lockrock, for example by pushing the edge on a cutting board, like @vivi said all my backlocks have some degree of it, except my Chaparrals (with their internal stop pins).
(Aside from the Chap I only have Seki backlocks these days)

Completely agreed -- I'd bet this has more to do with how I use my folders than anything else.

[weeping minora]

I haven't experienced lock rock with any of the three Pacifics I've used (two of which I used regularly). Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I don't use my Seki lock backs as hard as others? Who knows. I'll take a look at my Stretch 2XL's lock-up when it inevitably arrives from Dack and see how it compares.

Experiencing, like in noticing lockrock is something different than backlock folders actually having it imo..

Some time ago I would spontaneously have said that none of my backlock Spydies had lockrock - cause I did not notice it at all and it did not bother me at all (and, as a matter of fact STILL does not bother me in the slightest, is not an issue at all for me personally and I still don´t really notice it in use).

But when really looking for lockrock, for example by pushing the edge on a cutting board, like @vivi said all my backlocks have some degree of it, except my Chaparrals (with their internal stop pins).
(Aside from the Chap I only have Seki backlocks these days)

Completely agreed -- I'd bet this has more to do with how I use my folders than anything else.

Wouldn't experiencing (noticing) lock-rock be synonymous with the backlock actually having lock-rock?

I've had backlocks seem to be completely rock-solid (Seki and otherwise), that over time develop lock-rock from use. Unlike side-to-side slop/"blade-play", lock-rock seems to become a permanent mechanic within the lock following discovery, as I haven't found a way to reverse that effect. Whether it is actually inherent in the lock, or something that develops in use, or abuse, etc., is probably the real question to ask here, which all seems to come down to machining tolerances when the product was made. Everything eventually wears down, and wears out, so I suppose it could perhaps start to become noticeable once that wear begins to occur, even if perceived to have zero lock-rock from initial inception.

[vivi]

About the lock rock....how bad is it? Do you really feel it when using the knife? The ones I have, some you really need to force it and then we are talking about minuit play, something not experienced when using the knife at all.

I don't own a lockback from Spyderco where I don't notice it during use.

I've been buying Spyderco lockbacks for 20 years and have never come across one that could cut an apple in half without showing lock rock.

This goes for every country of origin too - it 100% isn't exclusive to seki. All my chiefs. All my Byrds. etc.

I can feel my Endura has minuit play but you really need to put a lot of force on it. I don't notice play when for instance cutting cardboard. I just pressed the blad in a piece of wood and then you feel it.

If you already feel it when slicing an apple, that's a different story. Does the play get a lot worse over the years?

My Chaps have zero play. I'm getting a third Chap this afternoon and will check for play on that one.

I've never purchased a spyderco lockback that had no lock rock right out of the box on the very first inspection before any use.

None of my lockbacks from spyderco could cut a slice off an apple without displaying lock rock straight from the factory. That's how they build them.

I'll echo what another poster said about tri-ad locks. No issue closing mine one handed 3 or 4 different ways, whether my american lawman or a voyager / recon xl. never any safety or dexterity issues closing those 5-6" blades closed one handed.

lockrock doesn't really bother me, but for some reason the perception that it's just seki knives, or just a small % of spydercos, or only develops over time does.

My experience has been the opposite.

I have literally asked shopkeeps to bring out every of model X they have (endura, police, etc.) and have gone through stacks of 20+ brand new spyderco lockbacks and tested them all for lock rock like this:

https://dubz.link/v/cf4018


they all failed. straight out of the box. from every country of origin they use for lockbacks. 100% of the spyderco lockbacks I've handled since I bought my first in 2006 or so.

testing different spydercos from different eras and countries - https://dubz.link/v/f3c23e

testing buck 110's - https://dubz.link/v/72b129

cold steels - https://dubz.link/v/3ee174

now this isn't to say cold steels are the best lockbacks, or bucks and spydercos are unsafe. I've carried and used all three brands for years with no real lock failures to speak of. I'd trust the lockbacks on my Buck 110's and Spydercos for pretty much any conceivable use I'd put a folder through. That said, opening up a Recon folder and seeing 4x deeper lock engagement compared to a Police.....that does make me extra confident in the tri-ad lock.

[navin johnson]

Is mild lock Rock just an annoyance or does it cause safety or functional issues?

[Wartstein]

Is mild lock Rock just an annoyance or does it cause safety or functional issues?

No issues at all in my experience (which is pretty extended with backlocks, I may say)

[vivi]

Is mild lock Rock just an annoyance or does it cause safety or functional issues?

never caused me issues during use.

[Farmer]

Personally I never had an issue with lock rock until a couple of weeks ago. I changed blades between a pair of Salt 2s, one in PE LC200N and one in SE H2, purely because I much prefer the yellow handles. Before changeover one knife had essentially no lock rock and the other had a tiny bit, but only if you went looking for it. However when I switched the blades and lockbars, even with everything suitably tightened, there was significant lock rock in the yellow handled LC200N one and it was unpleasant to cut with. The green handled H2 also had more than before but not to the same extent. When I swapped them back to the original configuration they reverted back to their original state. Which is a somewhat puzzling result! In the end I put it down to tiny differences in the moulds that meant the fixings were in an ever so slightly different place and gave up trying to do the swap. It got me wondering whether some amount of lock rock is due to older moulds being slightly worn out that then causes the fixings more freedom to move than normal?

[8th_Note]

Personally I never had an issue with lock rock until a couple of weeks ago. I changed blades between a pair of Salt 2s, one in PE LC200N and one in SE H2, purely because I much prefer the yellow handles. Before changeover one knife had essentially no lock rock and the other had a tiny bit, but only if you went looking for it. However when I switched the blades and lockbars, even with everything suitably tightened, there was significant lock rock in the yellow handled LC200N one and it was unpleasant to cut with. The green handled H2 also had more than before but not to the same extent. When I swapped them back to the original configuration they reverted back to their original state. Which is a somewhat puzzling result! In the end I put it down to tiny differences in the moulds that meant the fixings were in an ever so slightly different place and gave up trying to do the swap. It got me wondering whether some amount of lock rock is due to older moulds being slightly worn out that then causes the fixings more freedom to move than normal?

I don't know that age is a factor. I have about 10 Seki knives. The one with the worst lock rock is a fairly new PD#1 Endela sprint. It's not enough to keep me from using the knife, and I don't feel that the lock will fail, but it definitely has a noticeable amount of vertical play when you bear down with the blade.

One of the tightest Seki knives that I have is a Tasman Salt 1, which is also the oldest one that I have.

But every one of them has some vertical play when pressing down with the blade. As others have said, it's inherent to the design of the Seki back lock.

[Farmer]

I don't know that age is a factor. I have about 10 Seki knives. The one with the worst lock rock is a fairly new PD#1 Endela sprint. It's not enough to keep me from using the knife, and I don't feel that the lock will fail, but it definitely has a noticeable amount of vertical play when you bear down with the blade.

One of the tightest Seki knives that I have is a Tasman Salt 1, which is also the oldest one that I have.

But every one of them has some vertical play when pressing down with the blade. As others have said, it's inherent to the design of the Seki back lock.

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the age of the knife itself. I was thinking about the age of the mould. I would assume for high volume production knives, eg Delica/Endura family, that the moulds are replaced reasonably often. For lower volume models we know the moulds simply don't get replaced because it's not profitable to do so, so the knives go out of production.

Yes all of my Seki knives have *some* lock rock. However it's minimal in those I currently own and only noticeable if you go looking for it. Whereas after I did the blade swap the lock rock made precision cutting with that knife really unpleasant, as I couldn't tell exactly when the blade would start to bite.

[8th_Note]

I don't know that age is a factor. I have about 10 Seki knives. The one with the worst lock rock is a fairly new PD#1 Endela sprint. It's not enough to keep me from using the knife, and I don't feel that the lock will fail, but it definitely has a noticeable amount of vertical play when you bear down with the blade.

One of the tightest Seki knives that I have is a Tasman Salt 1, which is also the oldest one that I have.

But every one of them has some vertical play when pressing down with the blade. As others have said, it's inherent to the design of the Seki back lock.

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the age of the knife itself. I was thinking about the age of the mould. I would assume for high volume production knives, eg Delica/Endura family, that the moulds are replaced reasonably often. For lower volume models we know the moulds simply don't get replaced because it's not profitable to do so, so the knives go out of production.

Yes all of my Seki knives have *some* lock rock. However it's minimal in those I currently own and only noticeable if you go looking for it. Whereas after I did the blade swap the lock rock made precision cutting with that knife really unpleasant, as I couldn't tell exactly when the blade would start to bite.

I understand what you're saying now. Thank you for the clarification. And yes, that does make sense