Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[Naperville]

I always like meeting these people. How often do we get to meet famous people in movies or books. Training under them is really nice too. Sparring? I doubt I could hang with them for more than 30 to 60 sec in a ring. They are some well trained hombres!!! The ones they write books about and who get into the movies are not pretenders, the word would have gotten out.

I broke down in tears when I met a martial artist or two in Nor Cal. These guys are seriously good. Better than anyone I had ever met.

[James Y]

I always like meeting these people. How often do we get to meet famous people in movies or books. Training under them is really nice too. Sparring? I doubt I could hang with them for more than 30 to 60 sec in a ring. They are some well trained hombres!!! The ones they write books about and who get into the movies are not pretenders, the word would have gotten out.

I broke down in tears when I met a martial artist or two in Nor Cal. These guys are seriously good. Better than anyone I had ever met.

Yes.

I've had the honor of having some incredible martial artists as teachers. Most notably, my Kenpo teacher (my first striking teacher), my Shito-Ryu Karate sensei, and my Choy Lee Fut sifu could easily hang with the best of the best martial artists. I can't say that I ever equalled their skill levels.

Jim

[James Y]

"What Happens When You Get Squeezed?"

Some VERY important points are made here. A chimpanzee is one of the last things I'd ever want to piss off.

Quite early on in my martial arts training, I made the distinction between art, sparring/sport fighting, and real-life self-defense. How I fight in self-defense is NOT how I trained to spar or fight in competition; nor do my self-defense strategies involve any of the artistic performance skills I used to have (fancy, high kicking, or complicated skills).



Jim

[James Y]

Beware to All Single Men Visiting Thailand in 2025



TBH, that idiot got off lucky; they went fairly easy on him. If you mess with the wrong people, much worse can and does happen to people who are disrespectful like that. If REAL street justice had been meted out, that sucker and his friend wouldn't have been able to stand up and walk away immediately afterwards. There are idiot tourists like that everywhere, and they seem especially prevalent in Asian countries, because Westerners generally think that Asian people are all pushovers. Many find out to their detriment that that's not always the case. As much as possible, I avoided hanging out around the areas with the heaviest tourist traffic or foreign ex-pat hangouts in the Asian countries I've been to, even though I was a foreigner myself. I strongly dislike being around annoying people

Simple rule of thumb: Don't be an idiot, and don't underestimate anyone.

Jim

[James Y]

The Death of the Martial Arts



The older speaker (who I think is identified as "Sensei Bill") shares his views on the practicality of martial arts in modern society. IMO, some of his viewpoints are NOT totally correct. He seems to feel that with the existence of firearms, empty-handed fighting ability has no place in modern self-defense, and that the only practical methods of self-defense are total avoidance of ANY trouble, or using a gun. Very odd, because many of the most effective people in real life (including many experienced bad guys) understand both empty-hand and weapons use. The fact is that firearms have existed for centuries, and yet there are still circumstances in which the ability to fight empty-handed is invaluable.

Some of my disagreements with his apparent "guns are the only option for self-defense" argument include:

* A gun is not a magical talisman, and it does not make you invincible.

* You cannot have your gun with you 24/7, 365; and there are many places where you cannot carry a firearm.

* Shooting someone is not always the appropriate solution.

* Practical empty-handed fighting ability can greatly enhance the ability to use a weapon, including a firearm.

* While complete avoidance of trouble is always the best self-defense option, it's not always possible.

But maybe the martial arts ARE dying. They certainly aren't what they were when I was training in my youth. And even then, they weren't what they were back when one's training was a matter of life and death.

In times of peace (or relative peace), martial arts tend to devolve and start emphasizing more complex skills, aesthetic performances, philosophy, and an over-emphasis on "style". This has occurred before in history, over the centuries. Then something happens, and then "practical training" comes back into favor.

Ultimately, martial arts will continue on or die off if there aren't enough people who care enough to train in and propagate them. And maybe that's okay, too. You cannot force anybody to practice an art that they don't want to practice. Just like any other activity that falls out of fashion. All I know is that I would not be the person that I am today (and TBH, I probably wouldn't be alive today), had I not received the training that I had.

Jim

[James Y]

The Real Threat Isn't What They're Holding / Why Most People Make This Critical Mistake



Jim

[twinboysdad]

The Death of the Martial Arts



The older speaker (who I think is identified as "Sensei Bill") shares his views on the practicality of martial arts in modern society. IMO, some of his viewpoints are NOT totally correct. He seems to feel that with the existence of firearms, empty-handed fighting ability has no place in modern self-defense, and that the only practical methods of self-defense are total avoidance of ANY trouble, or using a gun. Very odd, because many of the most effective people in real life (including many experienced bad guys) understand both empty-hand and weapons use. The fact is that firearms have existed for centuries, and yet there are still circumstances in which the ability to fight empty-handed is invaluable.

Some of my disagreements with his apparent "guns are the only option for self-defense" argument include:

* A gun is not a magical talisman, and it does not make you invincible.

* You cannot have your gun with you 24/7, 365; and there are many places where you cannot carry a firearm.

* Shooting someone is not always the appropriate solution.

* Practical empty-handed fighting ability can greatly enhance the ability to use a weapon, including a firearm.

* While complete avoidance of trouble is always the best self-defense option, it's not always possible.

But maybe the martial arts ARE dying. They certainly aren't what they were when I was training in my youth. And even then, they weren't what they were back when one's training was a matter of life and death.

In times of peace (or relative peace), martial arts tend to devolve and start emphasizing more complex skills, aesthetic performances, philosophy, and an over-emphasis on "style". This has occurred before in history, over the centuries. Then something happens, and then "practical training" comes back into favor.

Ultimately, martial arts will continue on or die off if there aren't enough people who care enough to train in and propagate them. And maybe that's okay, too. You cannot force anybody to practice an art that they don't want to practice. Just like any other activity that falls out of fashion. All I know is that I would not be the person that I am today (and TBH, I probably wouldn't be alive today), had I not received the training that I had.

Jim

I think a better evolution would be weapons based martial arts that use empty hands, folding knives, possibly pepper sprays, and handguns. It would be a fool’s oversight to think you can operate a handgun or folder without being able to manage distance and space in a clinch type environment. I think Kelly McCann and Craig Douglas do a great job integrating all the skills above into systems

[Naperville]

I say leave the arts as is, and add what you will as a function of seminars.

[Naperville]

The Death of the Martial Arts



The older speaker (who I think is identified as "Sensei Bill") shares his views on the practicality of martial arts in modern society. IMO, some of his viewpoints are NOT totally correct. He seems to feel that with the existence of firearms, empty-handed fighting ability has no place in modern self-defense, and that the only practical methods of self-defense are total avoidance of ANY trouble, or using a gun. Very odd, because many of the most effective people in real life (including many experienced bad guys) understand both empty-hand and weapons use. The fact is that firearms have existed for centuries, and yet there are still circumstances in which the ability to fight empty-handed is invaluable.

Some of my disagreements with his apparent "guns are the only option for self-defense" argument include:

* A gun is not a magical talisman, and it does not make you invincible.

* You cannot have your gun with you 24/7, 365; and there are many places where you cannot carry a firearm.

* Shooting someone is not always the appropriate solution.

* Practical empty-handed fighting ability can greatly enhance the ability to use a weapon, including a firearm.

* While complete avoidance of trouble is always the best self-defense option, it's not always possible.

But maybe the martial arts ARE dying. They certainly aren't what they were when I was training in my youth. And even then, they weren't what they were back when one's training was a matter of life and death.

In times of peace (or relative peace), martial arts tend to devolve and start emphasizing more complex skills, aesthetic performances, philosophy, and an over-emphasis on "style". This has occurred before in history, over the centuries. Then something happens, and then "practical training" comes back into favor.

Ultimately, martial arts will continue on or die off if there aren't enough people who care enough to train in and propagate them. And maybe that's okay, too. You cannot force anybody to practice an art that they don't want to practice. Just like any other activity that falls out of fashion. All I know is that I would not be the person that I am today (and TBH, I probably wouldn't be alive today), had I not received the training that I had.

Jim

Knives are excellent, but firearms are extremely dangerous.

If you have a CCW Permit, you can almost get away with killing anyone. I've seen a few CCW people get arrested but not many.

[twinboysdad]

The Death of the Martial Arts



The older speaker (who I think is identified as "Sensei Bill") shares his views on the practicality of martial arts in modern society. IMO, some of his viewpoints are NOT totally correct. He seems to feel that with the existence of firearms, empty-handed fighting ability has no place in modern self-defense, and that the only practical methods of self-defense are total avoidance of ANY trouble, or using a gun. Very odd, because many of the most effective people in real life (including many experienced bad guys) understand both empty-hand and weapons use. The fact is that firearms have existed for centuries, and yet there are still circumstances in which the ability to fight empty-handed is invaluable.

Some of my disagreements with his apparent "guns are the only option for self-defense" argument include:

* A gun is not a magical talisman, and it does not make you invincible.

* You cannot have your gun with you 24/7, 365; and there are many places where you cannot carry a firearm.

* Shooting someone is not always the appropriate solution.

* Practical empty-handed fighting ability can greatly enhance the ability to use a weapon, including a firearm.

* While complete avoidance of trouble is always the best self-defense option, it's not always possible.

But maybe the martial arts ARE dying. They certainly aren't what they were when I was training in my youth. And even then, they weren't what they were back when one's training was a matter of life and death.

In times of peace (or relative peace), martial arts tend to devolve and start emphasizing more complex skills, aesthetic performances, philosophy, and an over-emphasis on "style". This has occurred before in history, over the centuries. Then something happens, and then "practical training" comes back into favor.

Ultimately, martial arts will continue on or die off if there aren't enough people who care enough to train in and propagate them. And maybe that's okay, too. You cannot force anybody to practice an art that they don't want to practice. Just like any other activity that falls out of fashion. All I know is that I would not be the person that I am today (and TBH, I probably wouldn't be alive today), had I not received the training that I had.

Jim

Knives are excellent, but firearms are extremely dangerous.

If you have a CCW Permit, you can almost get away with killing anyone. I've seen a few CCW people get arrested but not many.

I disagree. If you use a firearm in SD, expect to be arrested no matter the circumstances and then hopefully released when the facts pan out. And I live in a very gun friendly southern state. If you use a knife in SD, expect double the effort to be made righteous

[twinboysdad]

I say leave the arts as is, and add what you will as a function of seminars.

Maybe that’s why they are dying? The same way BJJ and MMA proved to be the most efficient path to SD proficiency, and signaling the end of adult Karate and TKD classes around here. If someone combined those elements along with tool integration, it would be hard pressed to be made ineffective by anything else for modern civilians

[Naperville]

What is this? I came back and I was still logged in?

Schools / Dojos are often not monolithic, they teach 2 to 5 different arts. All that they have to do is to incorporate an amalgam of techniques into a separate program, or have seminars every weekend for $50 to $1000, depending on the draw and the experts involved to teach that subject matter.

It isn't cheap to get experts in to teach to less than 100 people. You have to fly them in and back, feed them, provide housing, and they need reimbursement costs, plus make a few bucks.

Leave the arts alone. They are not going anywhere and have proven themselves over time, that is why they are an art unto themselves.

[Naperville]

I say leave the arts as is, and add what you will as a function of seminars.

Maybe that’s why they are dying? The same way BJJ and MMA proved to be the most efficient path to SD proficiency, and signaling the end of adult Karate and TKD classes around here. If someone combined those elements along with tool integration, it would be hard pressed to be made ineffective by anything else for modern civilians

Have them teach a catch all that runs Fri through Sunday. $50 per day, and have at it.

[James Y]

IMO, the biggest problem is the lawsuit-happy and 'participation trophy' culture that seemed to start during the 1990s (possibly even earlier), and only worsened from there.

Many of the most popular martial arts became watered down and kid-oriented. They became akin to activities like kids' soccer. A lot has to do with the fact that comparatively few adults nowadays are interested in actually training a martial art seriously, if at all. So to keep their doors open, teachers have to lower the standards into a little kids' activity. Unless the teachers themselves were brought up under that same watered down system of training.

Interestingly enough, I've been hearing that the extreme mass popularity of BJJ is already starting to cause it to become watered down in many BJJ schools. It's only a matter of time before it's in a similar situation as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc. The latter arts have only been in the limelight in the US longer.

The softer a society as a whole becomes, the softer the martial arts become. The softer the training becomes, the weaker the art becomes, when the teachers themselves have been brought up under the same soft teaching methods.

Jim

[twinboysdad]

IMO, the biggest problem is the lawsuit-happy and 'participation trophy' culture that seemed to start during the 1990s (possibly even earlier), and only worsened from there.

Many of the most popular martial arts became watered down and kid-oriented. They became akin to activities like kids' soccer. A lot has to do with the fact that comparatively few adults nowadays are interested in actually training a martial art seriously, if at all. So to keep their doors open, teachers have to lower the standards into a little kids' activity. Unless the teachers themselves were brought up under that same watered down system of training.

Interestingly enough, I've been hearing that the extreme mass popularity of BJJ is already starting to cause it to become watered down in many BJJ schools. It's only a matter of time before it's in a similar situation as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc. The latter arts have only been in the limelight in the US longer.

The softer a society as a whole becomes, the softer the martial arts become. The softer the training becomes, the weaker the art becomes, when the teachers themselves have been brought up under the same soft teaching methods.

Jim

My son is a 17 year old blue belt at a Gracie Barra BJJ. When I did BJJ 20 years ago, you got the blue when they gave it to you. Was not based on attendance, competition, but rather mastery of concept. I def see this school awarding belts at a higher rate than they should based on attendance more than anything. My son has competed and podiumed at every event he’s done and I still question his blue belt sometimes when I watch him roll live. He is a human woodchipper with pace and tenacity, but there are things missing from his game that would have prevented me from being a blue belt at my old school 20 years ago

[twinboysdad]

I say leave the arts as is, and add what you will as a function of seminars.

Maybe that’s why they are dying? The same way BJJ and MMA proved to be the most efficient path to SD proficiency, and signaling the end of adult Karate and TKD classes around here. If someone combined those elements along with tool integration, it would be hard pressed to be made ineffective by anything else for modern civilians

Have them teach a catch all that runs Fri through Sunday. $50 per day, and have at it.

https://shivworks.com/

[Naperville]

I say leave the arts as is, and add what you will as a function of seminars.

Maybe that’s why they are dying? The same way BJJ and MMA proved to be the most efficient path to SD proficiency, and signaling the end of adult Karate and TKD classes around here. If someone combined those elements along with tool integration, it would be hard pressed to be made ineffective by anything else for modern civilians

Have them teach a catch all that runs Fri through Sunday. $50 per day, and have at it.

https://shivworks.com/

Yes, I knew of ShivWorks but had not been back there lately. I bookmarked it. They are thriving.

I have been in arts that had Spring, Summer and Fall training camps that lasted a full 7 days straight. Almost 8 hours of instruction per day. One day might be a cultural day, where they visited the gravesite of the founders, the homes of the founders, the union halls, visit local eateries regarding the culture, etc.

If I had a martial arts dojo, I'd have seminars at least once a month. I'd do live streams, DVDs. I'd have seminars for the local police departments and security where you have to have current employment in the field to get in the course. Kids courses. Women's courses. Legal courses where you discuss the ramifications of using self defense...bring in lawyers that specialize. Bring in other dojos instructors from out of state for seminars. There is a lot that can be done, and you need to scour the Internet to see what schools everywhere are doing.

Survival of a dojo is hours open, knowing an art or two or three, getting talent to teach, as well as brainstorming to market the product. It must not be cheap to start a successful dojo, I would imagine the first 5 years of total struggle.

[James Y]

IMO, the biggest problem is the lawsuit-happy and 'participation trophy' culture that seemed to start during the 1990s (possibly even earlier), and only worsened from there.

Many of the most popular martial arts became watered down and kid-oriented. They became akin to activities like kids' soccer. A lot has to do with the fact that comparatively few adults nowadays are interested in actually training a martial art seriously, if at all. So to keep their doors open, teachers have to lower the standards into a little kids' activity. Unless the teachers themselves were brought up under that same watered down system of training.

Interestingly enough, I've been hearing that the extreme mass popularity of BJJ is already starting to cause it to become watered down in many BJJ schools. It's only a matter of time before it's in a similar situation as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc. The latter arts have only been in the limelight in the US longer.

The softer a society as a whole becomes, the softer the martial arts become. The softer the training becomes, the weaker the art becomes, when the teachers themselves have been brought up under the same soft teaching methods.

Jim

My son is a 17 year old blue belt at a Gracie Barra BJJ. When I did BJJ 20 years ago, you got the blue when they gave it to you. Was not based on attendance, competition, but rather mastery of concept. I def see this school awarding belts at a higher rate than they should based on attendance more than anything. My son has competed and podiumed at every event he’s done and I still question his blue belt sometimes when I watch him roll live. He is a human woodchipper with pace and tenacity, but there are things missing from his game that would have prevented me from being a blue belt at my old school 20 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

I have heard that there have been UFC fighters with little to no BJJ background, but who come from strong wrestling backgrounds, who the commentary tells the audience are BJJ blue, purple, or black belts. Apparently because there is an agenda to promote BJJ, especially by people like Joe Rogan. Because often these wrestlers end up being so dominant, and better MMA fighters and grapplers than many of the fighters whose base art is BJJ. Some of the wrestling-based fighters are often simply awarded BJJ belt ranks without even actually training in it. Again, from what I've heard.

I'm not posting this because I'm anti-BJJ; I trained in BJJ for awhile back in my 40s. But if it is true, it needs to be known. I would post the same about ANY art I've trained in, if they were doing something similar.

Jim

[twinboysdad]

IMO, the biggest problem is the lawsuit-happy and 'participation trophy' culture that seemed to start during the 1990s (possibly even earlier), and only worsened from there.

Many of the most popular martial arts became watered down and kid-oriented. They became akin to activities like kids' soccer. A lot has to do with the fact that comparatively few adults nowadays are interested in actually training a martial art seriously, if at all. So to keep their doors open, teachers have to lower the standards into a little kids' activity. Unless the teachers themselves were brought up under that same watered down system of training.

Interestingly enough, I've been hearing that the extreme mass popularity of BJJ is already starting to cause it to become watered down in many BJJ schools. It's only a matter of time before it's in a similar situation as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc. The latter arts have only been in the limelight in the US longer.

The softer a society as a whole becomes, the softer the martial arts become. The softer the training becomes, the weaker the art becomes, when the teachers themselves have been brought up under the same soft teaching methods.

Jim

My son is a 17 year old blue belt at a Gracie Barra BJJ. When I did BJJ 20 years ago, you got the blue when they gave it to you. Was not based on attendance, competition, but rather mastery of concept. I def see this school awarding belts at a higher rate than they should based on attendance more than anything. My son has competed and podiumed at every event he’s done and I still question his blue belt sometimes when I watch him roll live. He is a human woodchipper with pace and tenacity, but there are things missing from his game that would have prevented me from being a blue belt at my old school 20 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

I have heard that there have been UFC fighters with little to no BJJ background, but who come from strong wrestling backgrounds, who the commentary tells the audience are BJJ blue, purple, or black belts. Apparently because there is an agenda to promote BJJ, especially by people like Joe Rogan. Because often these wrestlers end up being so dominant, and better MMA fighters and grapplers than many of the fighters whose base art is BJJ. Some of the wrestling-based fighters are often simply awarded BJJ belt ranks without even actually training in it. Again, from what I've heard.

I'm not posting this because I'm anti-BJJ; I trained in BJJ for awhile back in my 40s. But if it is true, it needs to be known. I would post the same about ANY art I've trained in, if they were doing something similar.

Jim

My other son has wrestled folkstyle year round for 6 years and a few of those freestyle and Greco. I will say that at his ability to control and sometimes dominate another human, his path to a blue belt would be WAY shorter than someone with no grappling. Same for high level judo players

[James Y]

IMO, the biggest problem is the lawsuit-happy and 'participation trophy' culture that seemed to start during the 1990s (possibly even earlier), and only worsened from there.

Many of the most popular martial arts became watered down and kid-oriented. They became akin to activities like kids' soccer. A lot has to do with the fact that comparatively few adults nowadays are interested in actually training a martial art seriously, if at all. So to keep their doors open, teachers have to lower the standards into a little kids' activity. Unless the teachers themselves were brought up under that same watered down system of training.

Interestingly enough, I've been hearing that the extreme mass popularity of BJJ is already starting to cause it to become watered down in many BJJ schools. It's only a matter of time before it's in a similar situation as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc. The latter arts have only been in the limelight in the US longer.

The softer a society as a whole becomes, the softer the martial arts become. The softer the training becomes, the weaker the art becomes, when the teachers themselves have been brought up under the same soft teaching methods.

Jim

My son is a 17 year old blue belt at a Gracie Barra BJJ. When I did BJJ 20 years ago, you got the blue when they gave it to you. Was not based on attendance, competition, but rather mastery of concept. I def see this school awarding belts at a higher rate than they should based on attendance more than anything. My son has competed and podiumed at every event he’s done and I still question his blue belt sometimes when I watch him roll live. He is a human woodchipper with pace and tenacity, but there are things missing from his game that would have prevented me from being a blue belt at my old school 20 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

I have heard that there have been UFC fighters with little to no BJJ background, but who come from strong wrestling backgrounds, who the commentary tells the audience are BJJ blue, purple, or black belts. Apparently because there is an agenda to promote BJJ, especially by people like Joe Rogan. Because often these wrestlers end up being so dominant, and better MMA fighters and grapplers than many of the fighters whose base art is BJJ. Some of the wrestling-based fighters are often simply awarded BJJ belt ranks without even actually training in it. Again, from what I've heard.

I'm not posting this because I'm anti-BJJ; I trained in BJJ for awhile back in my 40s. But if it is true, it needs to be known. I would post the same about ANY art I've trained in, if they were doing something similar.

Jim

My other son has wrestled folkstyle year round for 6 years and a few of those freestyle and Greco. I will say that at his ability to control and sometimes dominate another human, his path to a blue belt would be WAY shorter than someone with no grappling. Same for high level judo players

Yes, IMO amateur wrestling are among the most effective fighting methods 1 on 1, without weapons.

Judo was my first martial art. I personally prefer Judo (or at least the Judo I trained in during the 1970s) over BJJ. But that's personal preference. The Judo I learned had a lot of floor grappling and submissions, along with the throws. I was never a high-level player, but became fair at it in the time I was in it.

The problem with Judo (and a lot of competitive hard grappling arts) is that it really takes a toll on the body; it would be very difficult to continue training past a certain age. All hard training takes a toll (mine sure has), but grappling especially (IMO).

The reason I ended up leaving Judo for Karate and other striking arts back then was because I was one of those kids who felt comfortable in throwing and grappling situations, but was secretly afraid of fist fights. So I became enamored with striking, and learning how to deal with it. Then I became more comfortable at striking and stand-up fighting than grappling. Go figure.

Jim