Another thread for discussing a Chaparral XL - now that it came one step closer to becoming a reality

[PaloArt]

My personal ideal "vision" for a Chap XL again:

- Compared to the current Chap FRN nothing should be changed, except length.

So same handle thinness, same handle height, same great backlock with stop pin, same sturdy construction (exposed steel liners, steel backspacer), and - most important to me:
Same thin, 2mm ffg bladestock also in the longer blade (how thin it would get in the end depends a lot on the tapering of course).

- Practical thoughts

I think the 2mm ffg XHP blade should be strong enough to handle almost all folder tasks people realistically do (as long as the tip keeps the rather "blunt" leaf blade shape of the current Chap and does not get too pointy)

This should become a general EDC knife with a great, superthin carry, very sturdy built but nevertheless still light (Current Chap FRN closed length 91 mm /3.60" ; weight 60 grams /2.1 oz.
Lengthen this to about 119 mm / 4.69" closed (like an Endela) and it should come in at about 75 g / 2.65 oz (LIGHTER than an Endela)

All this in "TWO sizes larger", so not "just" kind of a thin, backlock Sage, but about Endela size (3.5" blade).

Agree on everything above! Nothing more nor less.

[Flash]

I forgot about the tapering. Perhaps it could be more gradual.

Tapering combined with 2mm stock would need a wider more robust tip profile close to that of the Sage 5. The 2mm stock is something that must be kept in order to keep it in the nature of Chaparral, I really think this is its unique selling point compared to everything else.

Could also mitigate any potential tip-breakage issues by using a tougher steel …say Magnacut.

[Manixguy@1994]

I have no issues with the tip looks good to go for me as long as I do my part . Definitely an interesting concept . MG2

[Wartstein]

....
Tapering combined with 2mm stock would need a wider more robust tip profile close to that of the Sage 5. The 2mm stock is something that must be kept in order to keep it in the nature of Chaparral, I really think this is its unique selling point compared to everything else.
...

Agreed on both!

- I think how robust (in relation to the thin stock) the tip profile will be shaped, would mostly determine if a "Chap XL" can become a general EDC folder (more robust tip) or rather a "specialized" cutting tool that has to be handled with more care (thin stock AND too pointy tip)

- Just to me keeping the 2mm ffg bladestock on a 3.5 " blade is what this whole "concept" or "experiment" is about....

Like in "Spyderco can go Opinel"....

(The Opinel No 9 - 3.51" blade - has 1,91 mm bladestock (so THINNER than the Chap)
The Opinel No 6 - 2.98" blade - so roughly like the current "small" Chap, only 1,33 mm stock!)

[Tristan_david2001]

Personally quite a redundant design imo. The caly 3.5 exists, and essentially has all the features of chap but bigger.. designs are getting a lot more redundant in general nowadays. Nothing will beat the old days

The obvious difference is that the Chaparral is 1 mm (which is 33% in this case) thinner than the Caly 3.5. On top of that, the ergonomics are quite different (differences in choils, thumb ramps, the way the handles terminates where the user's pinky fingers rests). And then, on top of that, the internal stop pin makes the Chaparral Spyderco's best back lock mechanism, bar none.

Of course we all have our own opinions, but for me I see plenty of differentiation.

Oh yes I know there is some differences. And spyderco is known for making a lot of different models that are alike with slight variations but still being in a separate series. I realize my perspective is not shared by many. But sometimes I just grow a little distraught of how much the knife community and the spyderco fanbase undermines the calypso series, while I share the belief that they were intentionally created as spyderco’s most exemplary model, functionally and stylishly. Also yeah that’s nice about the stop pin, me personally I don’t really care. I’ll guarantee most caly or calypso lock backs are much smoother to operate than chaparrals.. and they’re plenty strong enough for anything you’re going to use this kind of tool for. Personally I think the chaparral works just fine as the one off it is, intended as a smaller gents version of the sage. Almost like how the kopa was a small gents folder inherently based off the original calypsos’. I just too many people now are asking for slight variations of already existing functional designs that fit the role just fine if people weren’t so picky.
Also just to note about thickness, if the chap gets a full size variant I would hope the thickness would increase some to give it a little more of a generalist factor

[xceptnl]

....
Tapering combined with 2mm stock would need a wider more robust tip profile close to that of the Sage 5. The 2mm stock is something that must be kept in order to keep it in the nature of Chaparral, I really think this is its unique selling point compared to everything else.
...

Agreed on both!

- I think how robust (in relation to the thin stock) the tip profile will be shaped, would mostly determine if a "Chap XL" can become a general EDC folder (more robust tip) or rather a "specialized" cutting tool that has to be handled with more care (thin stock AND too pointy tip)

- Just to me keeping the 2mm ffg bladestock on a 3.5 " blade is what this whole "concept" or "experiment" is about....

Like in "Spyderco can go Opinel"....

(The Opinel No 9 - 3.51" blade - has 1,91 mm bladestock (so THINNER than the Chap)
The Opinel No 6 - 2.98" blade - so roughly like the current "small" Chap, only 1,33 mm stock!)

Based on my measurements and uses, I think they could still maintain the 2mm stock with the distal taper. I agree it lends to a more edc role vs. harder uses, but I don't think it would be a real concern. The tip.will be more fragile, sure. The tip will also be precise if we're going to take the glass half full look.
Walking around with calipers checking all my thin stock knives, none really remind me of fragile with one exception (ffg Catcherman).

That said, the catcherman blade is close to half the height of what the Chap XL stock would be. The older ffg centofante was a 3" FFG with 2.2mm stock and a distal taper.

Ultimately I agree the thin stock is one of the major appeals to this design flex

[Wartstein]

Oh yes I know there is some differences. And spyderco is known for making a lot of different models that are alike with slight variations but still being in a separate series. I realize my perspective is not shared by many. But sometimes I just grow a little distraught of how much the knife community and the spyderco fanbase undermines the calypso series, while I share the belief that they were intentionally created as spyderco’s most exemplary model, functionally and stylishly. Also yeah that’s nice about the stop pin, me personally I don’t really care. I’ll guarantee most caly or calypso lock backs are much smoother to operate than chaparrals.. and they’re plenty strong enough for anything you’re going to use this kind of tool for. Personally I think the chaparral works just fine as the one off it is, intended as a smaller gents version of the sage. Almost like how the kopa was a small gents folder inherently based off the original calypsos’. I just too many people now are asking for slight variations of already existing functional designs that fit the role just fine if people weren’t so picky.
Also just to note about thickness, if the chap gets a full size variant I would hope the thickness would increase some to give it a little more of a generalist factor

I think I have made it clear in my previous post (viewtopic.php?p=1830344#p1830344) why I respectfully, but firmly disagree.

A Chap XL would be pretty much the farthest from a "slight variation" of "already existing designs" I can think of.

As I also get from Sals own words: This is really about trying out something new (for Spyderco) and exciting and if it works or not;
A 2mm, ffg blade in a 3.5" Spydie has never been done afaik (yes, the Catcherman is both longer and thinner, but really more of a specialized tool) and so this is about if that concept can transfer the extreme and praised by many sliceyness but still robustness of the current Chap in a longer, and thus even more versatile EDC folder format.
Same goes for the thin, but very comfortable handle and its supernice and convenient carry.
We don´t have nothing close to this in Spydercos lineup yet - so your "slight variation"- impression is not totally clear to me.

Actually what you are wishing for (no offense or critique meant, just saying!) - "give it more thickness" - would be exactly what you obviously do not want: Just a slight variation of a concept Spyderco already has a lot of (3mm - ish blade, "norm" handle thickness...) - and clearly this is a great concept, that works very well!
But a Chap XL is something different, that might work very well too, and perhaps even better in some aspects

/ Also: The current Chap is the most "generalist" folder in its size range I personally know of: Slicey, but still robust enough for true folder hard use (also due to the super solid built), great carry, but still very comfortable and "locking in the hand" handle for such a small knife and the duration of time periods a small folder is usually used.

[Tristan_david2001]

Personally the variations are slight to me, and I prefer around 3mm for an all around user! It’s fine if you disagree, I’m glad you’re excited about this concept

[Flash]

....
Tapering combined with 2mm stock would need a wider more robust tip profile close to that of the Sage 5. The 2mm stock is something that must be kept in order to keep it in the nature of Chaparral, I really think this is its unique selling point compared to everything else.
...

Agreed on both!

- I think how robust (in relation to the thin stock) the tip profile will be shaped, would mostly determine if a "Chap XL" can become a general EDC folder (more robust tip) or rather a "specialized" cutting tool that has to be handled with more care (thin stock AND too pointy tip)

- Just to me keeping the 2mm ffg bladestock on a 3.5 " blade is what this whole "concept" or "experiment" is about....

Like in "Spyderco can go Opinel"....

(The Opinel No 9 - 3.51" blade - has 1,91 mm bladestock (so THINNER than the Chap)
The Opinel No 6 - 2.98" blade - so roughly like the current "small" Chap, only 1,33 mm stock!)

Glad to know it’s not just me who likes super-slicey knives. I was starting to think I was in a minority.

Thicc knives have their place but the more I use a low geometry flat or a well-executed hollow grind as an EDC knife, the more I appreciate their practical merits of simply cutting something very well.

I think the XL Chap might just be my favourite Spyderco concept out them all… I hope it makes it to production.

[PaloArt]

@Wartstein I agree with you on all the points and frankly comparison with Opinel is spot on. I never broke blade on opinel No8 nor on smaller versions, in fact it is my secondary knife to any Spyderco I carry. I have 15 opinels in both 12c27 sandvik and their carbon steel versions as well. IF there would be bigger Chap, I might stop carying opinel so often. Btw. Opinel is my favorite hiking\bushcraft folding knife and I never chipped it, damaged it or broke the tip off on them.

I just hope this project will happen and Sal will consider it as regular production knife (FRN would be awesome), I would buy two of them instantly…

[sal]

The tip on my concept model is the same as the regular model. For the record, I design knives to be used as knives. I don't design knives to be used as pry-bars. The tips of my designs rarely break from use, only from abuse.

I've been using my CM for a few days now, and it works well. I plan to take some weight out of it. "Simplicate and add lightness" (Colin Chapman) but I don't plan to change the pattern. we will more than likely made a run, though I don't think it would be able to come our this year.

sal

[Wartstein]

The tip on my concept model is the same as the regular model. For the record, I design knives to be used as knives. I don't design knives to be used as pry-bars. The tips of my designs rarely break from use, only from abuse.

I've been using my CM for a few days now, and it works well. I plan to take some weight out of it. "Simplicate and add lightness" (Colin Chapman) but I don't plan to change the pattern. we will more than likely made a run, though I don't think it would be able to come our this year.

sal

Sal, thanks so much for the insight!!

- The tip of the original Chap is perfect imo: Precise, but still not too fine!
If the larger version keeps that shape and form: Also just perfect!! :

-...And "we will more than likely make a run" is just amazing news!!

Thanks again for doing this and keeping us informed!

[Flash]

The tip on my concept model is the same as the regular model. For the record, I design knives to be used as knives. I don't design knives to be used as pry-bars. The tips of my designs rarely break from use, only from abuse.

I've been using my CM for a few days now, and it works well. I plan to take some weight out of it. "Simplicate and add lightness" (Colin Chapman) but I don't plan to change the pattern. we will more than likely made a run, though I don't think it would be able to come our this year.

sal

Nice one Sal, that’s brilliant news!

If reading the room right it’s perhaps a bit early to talk about a salt version, but do you have any thoughts about blade steel other than CTS-XHP?

[sal]

Hi Flash,

Frankly, I've not thought about a Salt version. We'll see reaction to the design of the 3.5" version. See if any "tweaks" are necessary? Then think about blade steels, handle options and possible Salt versions. You're on page 6, we're still on page 1.

sal

[cabfrank]

Will Spyderedge be a possibility in the first run? ELUs are really raving about the current serrated model.

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

Will Spyderedge be a possibility in the first run? ELUs are really raving about the current serrated model.

Given how amazing* the SE Chaparral is, I just assumed there would be a SE Chaparral XL right off the bat. I'm still hopeful, but I appreciate the gentle nudge back to reality.

_{*this is not hyperbole -- I am continually amazed by the SE Chappy's performance}

[sal]

Will Spyderedge be a possibility in the first run? ELUs are really raving about the current serrated model.

Hi Cabfrank,

I would like to include a fully serrated version in the first run. Maybe 30%.

sal

[Wartstein]

Hi Cabfrank,

I would like to include a fully serrated version in the first run. Maybe 30%.

sal

For one like me who has been constantly musing and talking and writing about and proposing a "Chap XL" since 2019 it is just almost unbelievable how close to a realization we apparently are at this point... so cool!!

... And SE makes the whole thing even better of course - anyway, but especially when thinking about how extremely well the current Chap SE already performs!

[Wartstein]

Given how amazing* the SE Chaparral is, I just assumed there would be a SE Chaparral XL right off the bat. I'm still hopeful, but I appreciate the gently nudge back to reality.

_{*this is not hyperbole -- I am continually amazed by the SE Chappy's performance}

Same here.

The Chap SEs performance keeps blowing me away - and obviously almost everyone who tries feels about the same.
A LONGER version of that one must be unbelievably good...

[cabfrank]

My guess, based on the reaction to the current SE Chap here and other places I've read about it, is that 30% would be a certain sell out. There is a lot of love for this Chaparral Spyderedge LW.