LC200N vs N680 vs X15TN

[Doc Dan]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

[Jeb]

From the graph, there is not a thimble full of difference in any of them. I have a couple of knives out of the LC200N and they have done really well.

I don't have any out of the other two here, so will be interesting to see what comes to bare here on this thread. Great topic!!!

[vivi]

LC200N is rust proof, N680 is not.

LC is also tougher in my experience.

Never used the third steel so no comment.

Sometimes it takes experience to reveal differences that don't show up on paper.

[JoviAl]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

Honestly I have no idea what those minute differences correlate to in real life, although I’d say LC200N’s current availability in Spyderco knives is a feather in its cap. Do you have any LC200N? I have a Carribean SE user I’ll happily gift you if you like? It’s a magnificent knife design, but I mainly use fixed blades these days for work and the small but extremely mighty Chap LW SE gets all my pocket time at home.

[Jeb]

I am curious about this X15TN, who uses this for a knife?

[Skywalker]

I am curious about this X15TN, who uses this for a knife?

Benchmade used to run it on the "H2O" Griptilian; I believe a couple other models too. I had a LE grip with blue/black G-10 scales and an X15 blade at one point.

Apparently Spyderco considered it but preferred H1. See viewtopic.php?p=473157#p473157

[Doc Dan]

Benchmade used N680 and X15TN in their H2O knives. I have N680 in a couple of Lone Wolf knives, and it isn't likely completely rust proof, but it is really good. I've been wading in the ocean fishing and cutting bait all day and nothing done for the knife and no rust has ever appeared. It doesn't hold an edge as good as some steals, but it's okay for doing what I was doing.

I don't have any LC200N. I am waiting for Spyderco to come out with a Dragonfly in the steel to take the place of the Lone Wolf. I am interested in this steel. But, I see N680 has a lot more Cr and only a little more C, and I wonder about all of this and what it means.

The X15TN is something else to think about, too. I have no experience with it.

[Doc Dan]

Maybe @Larrin or @sal will pop in and help us out.

[thuyenbuom]

Very Useful Link (https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php) for knife steels! Many Thanks Doc Dan!

[Jeb]

I had no idea about the X15TN, I have a couple of knives that Spyderco made in the LC200N and they have been really good.

Now as V mentioned the N680 not being very weather proof that has a short season on me down in the south. The hot time we have here in the desert of Texas my body sweating like a hog in the heat just is really hard on knives.

The K390 for instance, it's a heck of a steel, just a really great blade steel. It rusts so bad just from being in my pocket and especially the side that is against my leg. Ain't patina either, it just flat out rust. I don't put mine away dirty either.

So I wanted to see what comes out from this thread. Heck this old dawg has learned a new trick from this forum, I have never been a coating on my blades kind of guy.

These new coatings and probably the process they go through put it on is really much better. The Micro Melt PD #1 has proven to me this for sure, I got it on several Police4 's one that is a edc that doesn't have an easy life with me; yet the coating is still on it.

I also recently bought the Spyderco Tomahawk and I have used it even harder and the coating is still good on it... Hacking away at things as hard as I can too, really is way harder on this coating than anything I do with my knives lol.

So there are things looking really great for our blades, we just need to pay close attention as we use them, as well as what is coming out in the future... Then get on this forum and share what we have, see and do with our Spyderco equipment...

[Manixguy@1994]

Boker used XT15N on the original Orca fixed blade . I had one and used it for a short time but not enough to form an opinion since I never had to resharpen and sold it to a friend . Knife was a beast originally made for West German Navy . MG2

[Jeb]

The Germans are no wimps when it comes to much of anything really. I bet that was a beast if they had anything to do with it...

[Fireman]

The only reason LC200N is my favorite steel is because it is tougher than Magna Cut and much tougher than Vanax. I am so happy I don’t have to chose between them

[Deadboxhero]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

More nitrogen

[Doc Dan]

Let's not confuse N680 with N690. Spyderco does not use the first, but does use the second. One is very corrosion resistant and the other is less so.

[Doc Dan]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

More nitrogen

That is a good point and I don't know why I didn't think about that. N would, in the right mix, make it more corrosion resistant, for sure.

[Doc Dan]

I am sure that Spyderco has tested these three steals and I wonder what the side-by-side comparison is like.

[Fireman]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

More nitrogen

[Deadboxhero]

https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/s ... hrn=1&gm=0

Somebody help me understand why LC200N is a better choice than the other two.

More nitrogen

That is a good point and I don't know why I didn't think about that. N would, in the right mix, make it more corrosion resistant, for sure.

Well, that's what makes LC200N so "exotic"

It is difficult to get high volumes of nitrogen into steel.

So, that should immediately standout as something special.

0.10-0.20% range of Nitrogen (N) is the limit with most conventional methods.


The 0.5-06% N requires a special process that increases cost.

PESR rather than ESR.


(Pressurized Electro Slag Remelting)

This is still cheaper than the nitrided powder technique used for the " diffusion alloying" method needed for Vanax which is extremely expensive but can achieve even higher nitrogen than the PESR used for LC200N.

That why Vanax is so cost prohibitive.



For LC200N, the additional Nitrogen over N680/X15TN not only boosts the corrision resistance in itself but also helps increase the working hardness and wear resistance over N680/X15TN.

LC200N does this by putting more dissolved, interstitial nitrogen into solution with austenite during heat treatment for more diffusionless transformation into nitrogen rich martensite upon cooling. The increased nitrogen also creates more of the harder M2X chromium nitrides which are harder than M7C3 chromium carbides.

After careful heat treatment, I can achieve a working hardness of 61-62rc with LC200N, this is extremely impressive for this material.

The consequence to hardness HRC comes from the increased chromium in solution; this severely limits the achievable hardness HRC regardless of the improvement described above from the higher nitrogen.

It's the same reason Vanax is so limited in higher hardness (60-61rc)

This has always been the severe trade-off for the highest corrosion resistant steels; the additional chromium in solution severely limits the hardness.

That's why another steel, MagnaCut, is so impressive since it achieves a high corrosion resistance without the hardness HRC capped at ~60rc due to limiting excessive chromium in solution yet, achieving high corrosion resistance through elimination of chromium carbides.

It's a brilliant and innovative design.


In the end, N680 and X15TN simply do not have the "firepower" in the chemistry to match the hardness and wear resistance to make them as exciting as LC200N.

Neither N680 nor X15TN are something I'd use in a premium custom, they don't have the "horsepower".



So, in simple terms, to answer the original question.


"More Nitrogen"

[Jeb]

DBH,

That explains alot man, thanks. I could not wrap my pointed head around how all this (Hp, your words lol) was being achieved.