C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

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TimButterfield
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#41

Post by TimButterfield »

riclaw wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:20 pm
TimButterfield wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:12 pm
If we could have a black slip, that would make me more open to some non-neutral colors for the scales, perhaps even a dark red or dark green.

Alternative idea: Maybe there could be two slips, one normal and one slip with a clip. Would a slip with a clip help those who want a clip version or is it required for the clip to be mounted to the handle in some way? Just wondering as I think some of my Bucks have a slip with a clip. I don't have them handy to check, but I think some of my 501s had it that way.
The Larrin has a slip with a clip (say that 3 times fast). I find that a clip keeps the knife from getting scratched as much from keys and whatnot found in the bottom of my pockets. A slip with or without a clip serves the same purpose.
That was one I was thinking of, the 501 Larrin and I think the 501 BCCI limited edition elk, both in Magnacut.

If there was the option of only one, I would prefer a slip without a clip. I prefer to not have any clips printing in my suit pants.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#42

Post by JSumm »

I love carrying a traditional most days. No slip straight in the pocket. I kinda like the wear that tells a story.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#43

Post by aicolainen »

JSumm wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:09 am
aicolainen wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 3:08 pm
I'm pretty much in the anything but carbon fiber camp as far as scale material goes, but I can see how CF in concept fits well with the lightweight theme of the Air. So while I'll take whatever they (hopefully) decide to make, something like G-10 or canvas/linen micarta would much more in my lane. The ebony suggestion sounds quite interesting as well.
I would also like a sprint to stay true to the spirit of the OG and keep with the tools steels. I'd be perfectly happy if they kept the M4 for the sprint, but I guess that's not very likely to happen. K390 is a fine suggestion, but we haven't seen much of that from Taichung yet. We have seen Rex 121, but that wouldn't be my top pick for this design.
Oh, and a clip would be nice. I may choose not use it after all, but screw holes in my scales never bothered me, so I'll rather have the option.

That's a lot of wants, but most of all I just want this sprint to happen, and I'm ready to commit however this sprinter is dressed up for its next run.
How do you feel about fat carbon fiber that Nick suggested. I think it looks classy and unique. Personally, I strongly prefer the fat carbon fiber to the "classsic" carbon fiber or weave pattern.

And I agree, the ebony does sound very interesting.
Not a fan of fat carbon either, unfortunately :)
This makes me feel like I’m hard to please, but it’s not really the case, I just prefer subdued and functional over stylish. So most of the common scale materials are good to go with me.
To be fair I’ve never had any scales in fat carbon, so I could be positively surprised, but it’s certainly not my top pick.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#44

Post by SpeedHoles »

aicolainen wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:03 pm
JSumm wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:09 am
aicolainen wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2025 3:08 pm
I'm pretty much in the anything but carbon fiber camp as far as scale material goes, but I can see how CF in concept fits well with the lightweight theme of the Air. So while I'll take whatever they (hopefully) decide to make, something like G-10 or canvas/linen micarta would much more in my lane. The ebony suggestion sounds quite interesting as well.
I would also like a sprint to stay true to the spirit of the OG and keep with the tools steels. I'd be perfectly happy if they kept the M4 for the sprint, but I guess that's not very likely to happen. K390 is a fine suggestion, but we haven't seen much of that from Taichung yet. We have seen Rex 121, but that wouldn't be my top pick for this design.
Oh, and a clip would be nice. I may choose not use it after all, but screw holes in my scales never bothered me, so I'll rather have the option.

That's a lot of wants, but most of all I just want this sprint to happen, and I'm ready to commit however this sprinter is dressed up for its next run.
How do you feel about fat carbon fiber that Nick suggested. I think it looks classy and unique. Personally, I strongly prefer the fat carbon fiber to the "classsic" carbon fiber or weave pattern.

And I agree, the ebony does sound very interesting.
Not a fan of fat carbon either, unfortunately :)
This makes me feel like I’m hard to please, but it’s not really the case, I just prefer subdued and functional over stylish. So most of the common scale materials are good to go with me.
To be fair I’ve never had any scales in fat carbon, so I could be positively surprised, but it’s certainly not my top pick.
You're not alone. Fat carbon looks closer to melted crayons.
It can look cool, in a party fun kind of way. I could enjoy it.
But it won't be at the top of a request list from me, won't make me rush to spend money.

I think that Massdrop spinoff website who is doing a group buy Spyderco knife design has just selected some wild colored fat carbon for their knife design.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#45

Post by Mushroom »

Let's keep in mind that "FatCarbon" is a brand name, not a product.

They make a variety of different types of carbon fiber composite materials, aside from their vibrant colored selections. For what it's worth, I wouldn't want one of their vibrant colored options on this knife either but they do offer a variety of more subdued options. - https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/?ca ... rbon_fiber

Space Coral
Image
https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/fat ... ace-coral/

Side Cut carbon fiber
Image
https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/car ... -side-cut/

Snake Skin Gold
Image
https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/car ... skin-gold/

Raindrop Gold/Copper
Image
https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/rai ... at-carbon/

Dark Matter
Image
https://fatcarbonmaterials.com/shop/fat ... rk-matter/

Also if the scales are smooth the material itself won't actually matter aside from aesthetically, so it might as well look cool. Smooth scales, regardless of the material, will not offer any functional advantages aside from maybe weight savings. (Which would be minimal)

I'm not trying to insist that they use something from FatCarbon but given the choice between something from them or plain carbon fiber again - I'd choose FatCarbon because it's more distinctive. Polished micarta scales might be appropriate too. Something like smooth G10 would be a very elegant option but they've done it so much before that I wouldn't be upset to see them switch it up. I think there is a lot of potential to the Ebony wood suggest from @di81ni as well. No matter what, I think anything with a peel ply texture would be out of place on a knife like this.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#46

Post by Wartstein »

Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:38 am
...
I feel that the Air would be just fine without a clip and just use a slip .
gooeytek wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:29 pm
It's a really sleek and clean design, no clip needed.
....
Meant with all due respect, but I honestly don´t fully understand where the problem lies if the Air would get a clip?
To me only an advantage, and no harm done?

- Easy to remove the clip and carry the knife without / in a slip for those who want that (can´t imagine that anyone could be bothered by some tiny clip screw holes or grooves for a wire clip? Can´t even really be felt when holding the knife?)

- To me a clip is essential especially on a knife like the Air and for the niche it would fill for me, because:

1.) Its superslim size and light weight make it perfect for iwb carry for example in running shorts (did not check, but it might very well be the Spydie that offers the longest edge in relation to the (low) weight)
- hard to do without a clip.

2.) It must be great for narrow pockets where a fatter knife does not fit in anymore, but I would not want to disappear the Air too deep in a narrow pocket - a clip prevents this.

3.) If wearing for example climbing pants with large, "floppy" pockets its quite easy for a clipless knife to fall out - and with the Air this is even more of a problem, cause due to its light weight it is more likely to happen that would not notice it when the knife is not there anymore.

- A slip looks nice and sure IS nice in some occasions, but generally totally ruins one of the great aspects of this design and a main reason why I´d carry it:
To have a really small and thin footprint in pocket (a slip obviously makes the overall package bulkier)
Top three going by pocket-time (update April 25):
- EDC: Endela SE (K390). Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10), Chaparral SE (CTS XHP)
- Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Endela SE (K390)
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#47

Post by Mushroom »

The harm with adding a clip is that it's not part of the original design. We are asking for a sprint run of the original design.

It's easy to get ahead ourselves with our requests.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#48

Post by SpeedHoles »

Or, what if "simply adding a clip" also could be seen as potentially adding like another 10, 15, 20 months of lead time to seeing this thing to fruition?



pssssst, hey, Mexican Bocote.
Would be worth another 10 months by itself.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#49

Post by CDEP »

Mushroom wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:22 pm
The harm with adding a clip is that it's not part of the original design. We are asking for a sprint run of the original design.

It's easy to get ahead ourselves with our requests.
Yes, and further, if we were talking about an "Air 2" I'd rather see an all-new design for a similarly purposed knife from Sal, Eric, or Ed Schempp getting back to some of his small knife ideas.

I wasn't around for the Kopa Kraze that the late 'The Deacon' made look like so much fun, so I'd advocate for a similar project from in-house at Golden.

Getting this Sprint across the finish line won't be easy, and it will be harder if it requires retooling.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#50

Post by Wartstein »

Mushroom wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:22 pm
The harm with adding a clip is that it's not part of the original design. We are asking for a sprint run of the original design.

It's easy to get ahead ourselves with our requests.
Not a request of course, just my thoughts on the matter.

Sprints went from sabre grind to ffg, from two clip positions to four, from G10 to Micarta... but I get and admit that compared to such things adding a clip where the original has none would probably be more of an actual change than "just" a variation...

On the other hand:
It could have its own charme indeed if an Air sprint would offer that clip option which the designer himself mused about adding to a future iteration.

Anyway, of course up to Spyderco to decide and I am happy with whichever way they might go.
Top three going by pocket-time (update April 25):
- EDC: Endela SE (K390). Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10), Chaparral SE (CTS XHP)
- Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), Endela SE (K390)
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#51

Post by TimButterfield »

I've been doing some more thought experiments about a possible clip. Using a capture from the video, here is a rough position outline of where one of the two normal clips may be positioned. (Just guessing at possible clip length and width based on a wire clip)
Image
The area at the bottom left shows an expanded view of where it may intersect the standoff screw and edge of the scale.

Wire deep carry clip: This would allow for deep carry. But, if this were used, the groove for the wire would likely intersect the edge of the scale. That would make the edge slightly weaker, more prone to breaking at that intersection.

Normal clip (like Para 3): The triple holes for mounting would make the mounting area of the clip substantially wider in addition to leaving the three holes when not mounted on that side. If not using the standoff screw, it would also put all of the three holes through the scale near the edge of the scale. That may make the entire end of the scale on both sides a bit weaker.

New clip design:
Compared with my prior design, this would not require any movement of the standoff nor as complex of a clip design that wraps around the end of the handle. Other than a minor change to the scales, the knife would be of identical construction to the prior version.

This clip has a side profile similar to a non-deep carry clip like that of the Para 3, flat against the scale where it mounts. But, instead of the triple hole mount, it uses a single mounting hole and a (longer) standoff screw. (It is possible a longer screw may fit into the standoff without requiring two separate lengths for use with and without the clip.) If nothing else were done, the clip would rotate around that single screw. The black dot is approximately where a small indentation is in the scale. As that indentation is only partial thickness similar to a wire clip groove, it would not overly weaken that area of the scale. A detent on the underside of the clip fits into that indentation. That may be enough to prevent clip rotation around the screw. (The sharper the edges of that detent, the more rotation resistance there would be. That is also partly affected by the strength of the scale material as a weaker material may break out of the indentation more easily.) With only the detent on the clip in that area, the edges of the clip could be tapered to better match the scale shape. With the clip removed, only the indentation remains to indicate where a clip may go thus making it a lot cleaner looking for formal mode dress.

This may allow both for good looks without a clip and the option of a clip for those who prefer it, hopefully along with the slip case as well.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#52

Post by di81ni »

Spyderco is not going to ‘just throw a clip on it’. The current design does not have any room for it without a redesign.
So to make the change to a version with a clip, I imagine there will need to be meetings, drawings, proto’s etc.
This is asking significantly more than a change in blade and handle material. People mentioned previous sprints that went from two to four clip positions, and sabre to flat grinds.
I think both required less investment than adding a clip to the Air would.

I totally respect and understand some people wanting a clip, I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect that to happen with a sprint.
Maybe if it was initiated by a seller or distributor with a guaranteed number of sales.
But I think we would be very lucky to get a sprint run at all.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#53

Post by gooeytek »

Wartstein wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 9:09 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:38 am
...
I feel that the Air would be just fine without a clip and just use a slip .
gooeytek wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:29 pm
It's a really sleek and clean design, no clip needed.
....
Meant with all due respect, but I honestly don´t fully understand where the problem lies if the Air would get a clip?
To me only an advantage, and no harm done?

- Easy to remove the clip and carry the knife without / in a slip for those who want that (can´t imagine that anyone could be bothered by some tiny clip screw holes or grooves for a wire clip? Can´t even really be felt when holding the knife?)

- To me a clip is essential especially on a knife like the Air and for the niche it would fill for me, because:

1.) Its superslim size and light weight make it perfect for iwb carry for example in running shorts (did not check, but it might very well be the Spydie that offers the longest edge in relation to the (low) weight)
- hard to do without a clip.

2.) It must be great for narrow pockets where a fatter knife does not fit in anymore, but I would not want to disappear the Air too deep in a narrow pocket - a clip prevents this.

3.) If wearing for example climbing pants with large, "floppy" pockets its quite easy for a clipless knife to fall out - and with the Air this is even more of a problem, cause due to its light weight it is more likely to happen that would not notice it when the knife is not there anymore.

- A slip looks nice and sure IS nice in some occasions, but generally totally ruins one of the great aspects of this design and a main reason why I´d carry it:
To have a really small and thin footprint in pocket (a slip obviously makes the overall package bulkier)
There are literally thousands of knives out there that are designed to be slim, lightweight, and not have a clip. I carry slipjoints sometimes, usually when wearing soft clothes. In scenarios where I'm doing something rough, I have other knives that are more suited. I also dedicate a pocket to just a knife, and that's all that pocket holds. In some cases, I'll have a 2-compartment slip that holds a slim, clipless knife and a small flashlight.

I loved the lines and design of the Air so much that I had a larger version of it made, and that one has a clip.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#54

Post by jdw »

I think it would completely kill the spirit of the design to add a clip and since it’s a Gayle Bradley design who says that it’s Spyderco’s call to add a clip? My main complaint about the Air is that it has an incredibly weak detent and it can come open in your pocket. If that is corrected then I am in for a couple.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#55

Post by Doc Dan »

1] needs to use a super light scale material. I love the original scales. But,
2] that scary detent has to be fixed, no matter what.
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riclaw
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#56

Post by riclaw »

gooeytek wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:20 am

I loved the lines and design of the Air so much that I had a larger version of it made, and that one has a clip.
OK, you can't tease us like that and not provide a picture. ;)
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#57

Post by JSumm »

I do agree the detent needs to be addressed. I know Taichung can tend towards the lighter side, but when throwing it in your pocket which I would intend to do, I would prefer a stronger detent.

I typically carry a slipjoint in my pocket most days to compliment my main carry. Often times, it is a straight edge or wharncliffe design. I am of the opnion that a wharncliffe is about the best blade type for a second carry if your primary is not a wharncliffe.
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gooeytek
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#58

Post by gooeytek »

riclaw wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 7:19 am
gooeytek wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:20 am

I loved the lines and design of the Air so much that I had a larger version of it made, and that one has a clip.
OK, you can't tease us like that and not provide a picture. ;)
Here you go:
Image
Image
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#59

Post by dj moonbat »

No clip or other such changes for me.

But Damascus steel would make a helluva good sprint steel. I could also see raffir scales like the Chaparral got, to preserve the translucent character of the original.
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Re: C-159 Air Campaign: Sprint or Bust!

#60

Post by riclaw »

gooeytek wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 2:22 pm
riclaw wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 7:19 am
gooeytek wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:20 am

I loved the lines and design of the Air so much that I had a larger version of it made, and that one has a clip.
OK, you can't tease us like that and not provide a picture. ;)
Here you go:
Image
Image
Thanks! Beautiful.
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