Help me defend "super steel" again

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I chatted with another knife user and he is very familiar with Spyderco. I told him I love the Endura Delica etc using VG10 and how they make use of cutting edge steel alloys. He told me we are steel snobs and he only uses 8Cr13MoV and 420 440 400 series because all super steel needs special sharpeners and cannot be sharpened by stone in field. I say he has a right to his opinion but I love how Spyderco does things. I like those alloys, too. There is a spectrum. Where do AUS alloys fit? Sandvik 14C28N?

[Mk-211]

These will fit in any backpack, overnight bag...

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/prod ... iafold-kit

[Scandi Grind]

I'm not big on what most people call a super steel, which doesn't typically include VG-10 by most peoples standard. VG-10 sharpens on typical waterstones, which I would not consider special sharpening equipment. Something like S90V though, I wouldn't mess with personally. I'm not well equipped for S90V, but diamond plates are quite availible nowadays. I like sharpenabilty more than edge retention, and I don't need corrosion resistance, so 80crV2 has become my current go-to steel.

To each their own. I don't really care if somebody thinks super steel is the best thing ever, or if they think they are useless, that doesn't have any bearing on what works for me.

[benben]

I'm not big on what most people call a super steel, which doesn't typically include VG-10 by most peoples standard. VG-10 sharpens on typical waterstones, which I would not consider special sharpening equipment. Something like S90V though, I wouldn't mess with personally. I'm not well equipped for S90V, but diamond plates are quite availible nowadays. I like sharpenabilty more than edge retention, and I don't need corrosion resistance, so 80crV2 has become my current go-to steel.

To each their own. I don't really care if somebody thinks super steel is the best thing ever, or if they think they are useless, that doesn't have any bearing on what works for me.

On my custom kitchen knife I had the choice between 80crV2, W2, and 52100. Don’t think I would have gone wrong with either of these three but I chose 80crV2 and couldn’t be happier!

[Albertaboyscott]

Different strokes for different folks. I like carbon in the field but love my "super steels" for daily carry. No one needs to defend or champion anything in my eyes. Just different preferences.

[Tgmr05]

Options. Super steels give options. And the search for options lead to innovation. The knife community has greatly benefited from this. Have we reached peak steel options, yet?

Edge retention longevity depends somewhat or a lot on how you use the edge. How you use the edge depends on your circumstances and choices. Options.

[Evil D]

Anyone that would make comments like this probably isn't worth spending your effort to educate. Let them be content with their 440 steel and Arkansas stone.

[Switchback]

I am perfectly content with most steels. I’m a semi-retired city boy and I work part time making deliveries in a Toyota Corolla. I can go days or even weeks without ever needing to cut anything.

I don’t need good edge retention but I like knowing that my knife will stay sharp long enough to complete any task I might encounter. The better the edge retention, the more likely the knife will accomplish that. Just knowing that gives me peace of mind. The old cliche, “It’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it” comes into play here.

I use diamond stones for all of my sharpening and touch ups. They work great for all steels. I don’t own any other types of stones.

[Halfneck]

A bunch of anonymous people online are not going to change this person's opinion. Instead it will just make you look like a know-it-all jerk by saying "See all these people say I am right & you are wrong". Maybe instead of defending "Super Steel" (which VG10 is not) you help him out by teaching him how to sharpen knives. If they can sharpen 440 series & 8Cr steel they should be able to sharpen VG10. Find out what he is using to sharpen knives & observe their technique. Then offer any help in improving on their ability from there.

[Larrin]

Since there is no real definition of super steel it is hard to defend a concept only in someone’s mind.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

These will fit in any backpack, overnight bag...

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/prod ... iafold-kit

Thank you!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A bunch of anonymous people online are not going to change this person's opinion. Instead it will just make you look like a know-it-all jerk by saying "See all these people say I am right & you are wrong". Maybe instead of defending "Super Steel" (which VG10 is not) you help him out by teaching him how to sharpen knives. If they can sharpen 440 series & 8Cr steel they should be able to sharpen VG10. Find out what he is using to sharpen knives & observe their technique. Then offer any help in improving on their ability from there.

Thank you Halfneck. This helps. Yes I had planned to tell him that a whole bunch of very experienced knife owners refute that ckaim of his. You are very perceptive, sir. But as you showed, I realized best to avoid an argument and be respectful and helpful instead. He seems to think stuff like MagnaCut, H1 and VG10 are just expensive jewelry like steel and what matters most is a quality budget steel that can hold an edge and be easy to maintain.

[The Mastiff]

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a waste of time. This guy has already resorted to name calling anyways which is usually a sign that they see no logical argument to their position. I's your time to waste though.

[bdblue]

cannot be sharpened by stone in field

How long is he in the field and what is he doing that requires resharpening? Some super steels would hold an edge long enough that you would not need to sharpen them in the field.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Since there is no real definition of super steel it is hard to defend a concept only in someone’s mind.

That is a great point. Larrin, one of the many things I learned from your books is that 8Cr13MoV and AUS8 stainless steel are chemically similiar and very close in properties. Is that correct?

Also, a man who uses Spyderco knives like us [has the opposite view from the 400 series steel advocate] claims the alloys made in Japan, Europe, and the USA such as AUS series, VG10, the various CPM alloys, and stuff like N690Co [common in quality European knives as you know] are "cleaner" and have less impurities than Chinese steel. I asked him why this is and he claims it's because the employees in their factories are paid less.

Is that scientifically accurate or is that his subjective, unverified opinion?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

cannot be sharpened by stone in field

How long is he in the field and what is he doing that requires resharpening? Some super steels would hold an edge long enough that you would not need to sharpen them in the field.

Great question. That is one of his claims against the newer alloys. I asked him if he thinks a steel like say Sandvik 14C28N or CPM S30V is worth the added cost and he said without specialist tools like the Sharpmaker or various bench sharpeners, you cannot use say found flat stones in an emergency or even standard sharpening stones. He said if I disagree with him I am "buying into steel snob propaganda" that is trying to make an extra buck.

As I said before, he has a right to his opinion but I feel that is rude considering all the effort Spyderco and other quality knife companies and metallurgists put into bringing us improved alloys.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Different strokes for different folks. I like carbon in the field but love my "super steels" for daily carry. No one needs to defend or champion anything in my eyes. Just different preferences.

Agreed. If I may ask is the reason why you prefer carbon steel over the super steel in some uses is due to the edge being easier to sharpen and more shock resistant?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a waste of time. This guy has already resorted to name calling anyways which is usually a sign that they see no logical argument to their position. I's your time to waste though.

Thank you. Yes I learned that lesson. I was hoping I could show him that many serious knife users on this forum support the use of these other alloys but his mind is quite set.

[Switchback]

There are plenty of diamond field sharpeners on the market that can be carried in the pocket or a backpack. Designed specifically for sharpening “super steels” in the field. I don’t have one but I assume that they perform very well in the field based on my experience with other diamond stones.

Your friend simply hasn’t tried those stones and likely doesn’t want to. He doesn’t like super steels . Nothing wrong with that but the excuse that they can’t be sharpened by stone in the field is a poor one.

[James Y]

People like what they like. There's no need to argue against or defend something like blade steel choices with anyone.

Jim