Potential Tariffs & Golden, CO.

[zhyla]

That is an interesting set of assumptions.

I did not notice any price increases then.

You haven’t noticed price increases since 2018? Go buy a Tenacious then lol.

[Mat_ski]

That is an interesting set of assumptions.

I did not notice any price increases then.

You haven’t noticed price increases since 2018? Go buy a Tenacious then lol.

So what was the price of tenacious in 2016 and in 2019? Was there a 25% increase following the imposition of tariffs in 2017 and 2018?

I know what it is now, but you cannot ignore last 3 years of inflation when looking at today’s prices.

[Naperville]

No assumptions made, nothing but cold hard facts.

I was referring to the assumption that reducing China’s export revenue will alter their foreign policy, and alter it in a favorable direction.

Investments are being shutdown or sold off and billion$ in funds has been leaving China every year since 2018. I cannot find the applicable graphs or charts but it is quite dramatic.

Google's Search AI says, "Since 2019, there has been a significant trend of foreign companies pulling funds out of China, with a notable decline in foreign direct investment (FDI) due to factors like geopolitical tensions, a slowing Chinese economy, and increased competition from domestic Chinese firms; this trend is reflected in data showing a sharp decrease in net inward direct investment, indicating that withdrawals from China now exceed new investments coming in."

https://www.google.com/search?q=funds+w ... to+present

Will China be able to continue to export the same amount of goods to the USA when the tariffs on China increase by 100% after President Trump gets into office?

Will China be able to export to anyone globally with a full blown war in the South China Seas? When China invades Taiwan, and take over TSMC chips manufacturing will anyone trade with China?

If it were up to me, we would not import anything from China. The globe is funding a beligerent and aggressive super power that is trying to take over The West.

[Mat_ski]

Double post.

[OV1kenobi]

[/quote]

If it were up to me, we would not import anything from China. The globe is funding a beligerent and aggressive super power that is trying to take over The West.
[/quote]

And the West continues to foolishly fund its own potential destruction. It is like that scene in one of the Dirty Harry movies where some Bozo hires another one to beat him nearly to death.

It is like the West saying to China: “Here. Take my money. Give me every penny’s worth (of a beating).

[Guts]

So what was the price of tenacious in 2016 and in 2019? Was there a 25% increase following the imposition of tariffs in 2017 and 2018?

I know what it is now, but you cannot ignore last 3 years of inflation when looking at today’s prices.

Just to add some data, I got my first basic G10 Tenacious in 2016 at full price for $34.79. The basic G10 Tenacious is $64.50 now. $34.79 in 2016 is worth $45.12 in 2024, so the Tenacious has seen a ~43% price increase since 2016 adjusted for inflation. Someone correct my math if I'm wrong though.

[Spidey-Dawg]

I don't care if Chinese knives become more expensive from tariffs. It's my view that US Consumers should start decoupling from the Chinese economy ASAP.

[Mk-211]

I don't care if Chinese knives become more expensive from tariffs. It's my view that US Consumers should start decoupling from the Chinese economy ASAP.

Good luck with that ever happening, there's to many things, components, whatever... made in China and other countries, for that to happen.

[Mat_ski]

So what was the price of tenacious in 2016 and in 2019? Was there a 25% increase following the imposition of tariffs in 2017 and 2018?

I know what it is now, but you cannot ignore last 3 years of inflation when looking at today’s prices.

Just to add some data, I got my first basic G10 Tenacious in 2016 at full price for $34.79. The basic G10 Tenacious is $64.50 now. $34.79 in 2016 is worth $45.12 in 2024, so the Tenacious has seen a ~43% price increase since 2016 adjusted for inflation. Someone correct my math if I'm wrong though.

So does your model still work when you apply it to USA and Japan made Spydercos that were not tariffed?

[Guts]

So what was the price of tenacious in 2016 and in 2019? Was there a 25% increase following the imposition of tariffs in 2017 and 2018?

I know what it is now, but you cannot ignore last 3 years of inflation when looking at today’s prices.

Just to add some data, I got my first basic G10 Tenacious in 2016 at full price for $34.79. The basic G10 Tenacious is $64.50 now. $34.79 in 2016 is worth $45.12 in 2024, so the Tenacious has seen a ~43% price increase since 2016 adjusted for inflation. Someone correct my math if I'm wrong though.

So does your model still work when you apply it to USA and Japan made Spydercos that were not tariffed?

Well it's just simple math and using an inflation calculator. I didn't follow the pricing on Japanese made Spydercos back then, but the first PM2 I bought was a black dlc model for $134.97 also in 2016. In today's money that's roughly $177.42 according to the first inflation calculator i found. A black DLC PM2 is $213.75 right now in Dec 2024.

A ~20.47% price increase accounting for inflation (the inflation increase is ~31.5% since 2016 apparently). Seems to track with the 25% tariff on Chinese imports from 2018 (20.47% on the PM2 with no traiff vs 43% on the tenacious with tariffs).

[Bolster]

But what do you think of my comment that the Golden expansion was well-timed? Agree, disagree?

Is Spyderco in a stronger competitive position with most other out-sourcing knife companies because it has expanded its USA-based manufacturing? I'm thinking yes, but maybe there's another perspective?

[Naperville]

But what do you think of my comment that the Golden expansion was well-timed? Agree, disagree?

Is Spyderco in a stronger competitive position with most other out-sourcing knife companies because it has expanded its USA-based manufacturing? I'm thinking yes, but maybe there's another perspective?

I think the expansion is an excellent idea. You never know what any government is going to do. The timing seems good. Not sure what the tariffs will do, it's a toss up at the moment. Lots of players involved.

Sal and Eric know they need to expand models slowly and build the base of customers. Spyderco has to keep quality high and make the best knife that they can.

I buy what I can, give a few away and try to help build the base of customers. It's not my job, but Spyderco makes a good knife and I try to pass the info along.

Might be giving my brother a Spyderco Native Chief in S90V tomorrow. Maybe I should wait and give him a CruWear Native Chief. I'm on the fence.

[sal]

Actually, more than one question floating here. The planning for the Golden expansion began back in 2018 and 2019. So timing had nothing to do with tariffs or even China. There was trending demand for US made products as well as a lot of changes going on in the Knife Industry. Some companies sold and the owners retired (eg; Cold Steel. Outdoor Edge, etc.). Some companies were working on their US facilities; eg; Kershaw, Benchmade, Spyderco, etc. Some companies were planning on US factories; CRKT, etc. So the landscape in the Knife Industry has been in flux for decades. Chinese factories were using modern equipment and competing. Knives were becoming more popular Globally. New Blade steels were being developed.

So "Timing" had little to do with the Politics or Tariffs. Like many, we realized that we would need to increase our capacity in Golden and we needed more space for more equipment and staff. Now that the construction is mostly complete, there is till a large curve involved in planned growth. It just doesn't happen overnight.

Also, I'd like to make the distinction between the Chinese Government and the Chinese knife makers. It took us years to learn who we can work with in China, who could learn to do the quality and who can be trusted. We went through quite a few makers to find the quality and trust required. We had to do the same thing in Japan. We've been working with our outsourced makers for decades. The future is in flux and we'll all have learn to deal with it.

sal

[zhyla]

So does your model still work when you apply it to USA and Japan made Spydercos that were not tariffed?

It’s not that simple. Tariffs typically increase prices across the board (tariffed and non-tariffed goods). Economics is complicated.

I’m very curious how much of Spyderco’s sales/revenue come from the Chinese knives. I would never expect Sal to reveal such data, but I’ve always wondered how much of their business is from China. I don’t have any guesses as I so rarely see Spyderco products anyway.

[PMBohol]

“Also, I'd like to make the distinction between the Chinese Government and the Chinese knife makers. It took us years to learn who we can work with in China, who could learn to do the quality and who can be trusted. We went through quite a few makers to find the quality and trust required. We had to do the same thing in Japan. We've been working with our outsourced makers for decades. The future is in flux and we'll all have learn to deal with it.“



Thanks Sal. Wise words that have been proven over time.

[Coastal]

I was on the fence about buying a couple models from the economy line. The threat of tariffs gave be a welcome excuse to go ahead and pull the trigger.

[Landshark99]

Just for clarity tariffs on products are paid by the importer not the country they were made in, then those increases in cost usually passed on to the consumer. Blanket tariffs would effect not just completed knives but any imported parts or materials that make up a US made knife or accessory.

[Michael Janich]

Dear Landshark99:

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum.

Stay safe,

Mike

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

People who are a heck of a lot smarter than I am (of which there are many) say that tariffs mainly get passed on to US businesses and, ultimately, US consumers. That's what happened after 2018, so I have no reason to expect a different result this time around.

The following link is sourced from a non-partisan, non-profit tax policy organization:

https://taxfoundation.org/blog/who-really-pays-tariffs/

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If I may ask a question directly related to what sal said above, what methods or measures are used to determine if a given factory [ Chinese or other] is complying with the stringent quality control of Spyderco, in order to make sure a foreign maker is not sneaking in toxic materials or lower quality parts and components? And is there a method in place to make sure the factory employees are actual paid workers and not being abused or is that beyond the capabilities of Spyderco? Please do not take any offence at these sincere questions.