Why Did The Jumpers Fail?

[ZrowsN1s]

For me it solved a problem I didn't have. Delica/endura/police work fine for me. Nothing against the jumpers though. If there had been a G-10 version in a good steel and color, I'd have probably picked one up. But I have 5 Seki frn k390 knives that I love and work fine for me.

I'd also add that with the Endura and Delica, I was able to get aftermarket scales to replace the FRN on some of them. No aftermarket scales for the Jumpers and not likely to be now.

[nerdlock]

I only have one Rock Jumper and I received it graciously as a prize for winning a month in the Spyderco Photo Contest a few years ago. Many thanks to Sal, Kristi and the rest of the company for the gracious prize.

Unfortunately the handle ergos never really worked out for me. I have smaller than average hands and the swell of the RJ near that bottom half of the scale never really sat well in my hands. I'm pretty sure I'm an outlier here since most of the users in this forum are comfortable with XL size knives so that's not a knock on this knife's design, it's just how it is.

Another thing (speaking as an outdoor enthusiast and former recreational climber), most if not all, rock-climbing specific knives have a very big hole as part of the design (larger than the Spydie hole). It's supposed to fit a standard carabiner so that it can be easily hung on the gear loops of a climbing harness. I cannot say if that is a factor in the slow sales of the Jumper series, but I can easily say that most folks I know who are still climbing still look to other knives other than Spyderco for their climbing knife needs.

Here are a few climbing specific knives that have the carabiner hole I mentioned:
https://blacksheepadventuresports.com/2 ... on-review/

Aside from that, I think that to most people, the Jumper series is an excellent knife and personally I think it is too, just never really worked out for me.

[kennethsime]

I like my Rockjumper a lot. I should probably pickup that K390 Leafjumper.

I’d still like a Jumper handle with a Tenacious blade.

[zuludelta]

I have the RockJumper in both PE & SE & I like them both (in fact, I just used the SE version as my work knife earlier today). They're very much in the "Goldilocks zone" for me as far as size & weight, and my hand conforms to the RockJumper handles better than the handles of the Delica/Endela/Endura line.

I was bummed to see the RockJumper discontinued (was hoping we would get K390 & LC200N Salt versions) but like some others in this thread, I wasn't exactly surprised when it happened. Even just within Spyderco's line-up of VG-10/FRN folders, the RockJumper was facing very stiff direct competition in the form of the Wharncliffe version of the Delica 4. I imagine many people in the market in 2020/2021/2022 for a small/mid-sized VG-10 Wharncliffe folder suitable for high-paced outdoor activities were probably choosing between the Delica 4 Wharncliffe & the RockJumper, and a majority of them probably picked the former given the Delica's established popularity & legacy.

Though not very likely, I hope the RockJumper comes back in the future, either as an improved "RockJumper 2" or even just as a Sprint in a different steel & FRN colour combination (how about VG XEOS in satin & blacked out options with OD Green FRN?).

[Fastidiotus]

I own way too many Enduras, an Endela, and a mix of 5 or 6 Delica/Salt 2's. For me the Jumpers felt like Seki designs had peaked. The spring tension and lock up is more confidence inspiring, the blade has more metal around the pivot area, and they feel overall less delicate than the Delica. I loved the lack of jimping as it's always an unnecessary hotspot with extended use on any knife. They come across as a new and improved Seki knife. I had a secret hope they'd shake things up enough that we'd see a slightly chunkier Endura 5 incorporating some Jumper attributes somewhere down the line. After the Rockjumper last year, not being included in the PD#1 sprint was a good hint this was coming. Alas what can you do, time to hoard these things like the TLC channel is coming to town.

[Wartstein]

...
I have read that some folks didn’t like the blade to handle ratio. It didn’t bother me at all. Aren’t there other more successful models like the Delica and Endela that “suffer” the same?
...

Concerning the "blade to handle ratio" - thing:

- A longer blade / edge to many just is more versatile than a shorter one and better in many tasks, as well as a shorter, compact handle is convenient in carry.
- So imo it is a good thing to have Spydies in the quiver that offer a good blade/edge to handle ratio.
- Not every folder has to do that of course, but the thing is:

- How the Rockjumper was advertised did rise high expectations particularly in the blade to handle ratio regard

Quoted from "Spyderco Byte Sept 2020" (https://mailchi.mp/spyderco/spyderco-by ... ember-2020)
"One of the primary design goals of the RockJumper was to pack as much cutting edge as possible into its pocket-friendly size..."

But this is the one thing the RJ in reality did not achieve.
For perspective:

My Stretch 1 has the exact same closed length as the RockJumper, but about 15 % more blade length, and 10 % more cutting edge, and that despite the Stretch 1 even has a choil (and the RJ not).

The Rock-/Leafjumper would actually offer quite some additional space in the handle for a longer blade.
And the blades of both models exceed the 3" blade length limit (important for legal reasons in some places) anyway (3.08"/3.09") so this is also no argument for making the blade not a bit longer.

So I guess some who were hoping that specifically the RJ/LJ could become "the" models for those who just like a good blade to handle ratio did not get that.

Don´t get me wrong , not the end of the world at all, but just not the "pack as much cutting edge as possible in its pocketfriendly size" like Spyderco themselves described the knife.

[Doc Dan]

The only fault that I see in them was that they came around at a time when the exchange rate was very bad. Not a fault of the knife at all. It just meant that I could not reasonably afford to buy them and I was waiting on the inevitable improvement in the exchange rate from one end or another and then I was going to buy one.

[Wartstein]

Reasons I can see for why the Jumpers perhaps did not / do not perform as well as hoped, despite being amazing knives (tried both in SE myself).

- 1.) "VG10 and black FRN with liners"

This does NOT reflect my own opinion at all (!) (VG10 is good stuff and even great in SE, black FRN perfect for me), but it seems some knife folks are just not "excited" enough by that combination of materials anymore.

- 2.) " Rockjumper partly advertised as a knife for climbers, mountaineers and outdoor folks, but perhaps not offering what those typically want"

I am a climber and mountaineer myself, and naturally know many others: A lot of folks in that community want
- a) gear as light as possible and
- b) that gear coming in high viz colors.
- c) The almost complete corrosion resistance Spyderco is able to achieve with their knives is desirable for many too.

Now... if I combine 1.) and 2.):

I personally think that if the Rockjumper had hit the market as an even lighter, linerless true Salt knife with some exciting new high viz handle color like orange (and perhaps a totally blacked out alternative on the flipside) in LC (or later MC) it would have an a lot better reception.

Again: NOT because linered, black FRN and VG10 would be bad (for me it´s a great combo), but it does not "excite" the market and thus many do not even bother to try out the general platform (for no rational, functional reasons, but it is just what "the market" seems to be these days).

(Touching on my previous post: Actually NOT making the RJ the model that "packs as much cutting edge into its pocket friendly size" as it was advertised might have disappointed some too - I mean there are quite some who obviously like knives like the Caly 3.5 or Stretch 1 for their great blade to handle ratio. The RJ did not offer that in the end).

[Skywalker]

...
And the blades of both models exceed the 3" blade length limit (important for legal reasons in some places) anyway (3.08"/3.09") so this is also no argument for making the blade not a bit longer.
...

This, and your comments lamenting lack of edge length, is a lot of what kills the Delica/Endela comparisons for the Jumper in my mind. The leafjumper is over the common 3" legal limit, bulkier in pocket, thicker blade stock, and heavier than a Delica all while not having as much edge as an Endela.

IMO if the selling point is "upgraded" or "turbocharged" Delica the Jumpers don't make sense. K390 clip+wharncliffe Delicas and Endelas made sense to me - jumpers did not.


Now as @zuludelta said, if that thicker handle and overall size are just in your Goldilocks zone and work for you better than the Delica/Endela/Endura do, more power to you - that seems like a better argument for the Jumpers.

[araneae]

It has been a quiet year of Spydies for me, but I did just order a Leafjumper in SE k390. I felt like I might miss out on a huge amount of cutting power in a pretty compact package so I bit. My Wharnie Rock jumper never really clicked for me, I will see if I prefer the leaf...

[SchoonerBum]

I personally think that if the Rockjumper had hit the market as an even lighter, linerless true Salt knife with some exciting new high viz handle color like orange (and perhaps a totally blacked out alternative on the flipside) in LC (or later MC) it would have an a lot better reception.

As a sailor and commercial mariner who spent my first three decades doing a lot of climbing, skiing, and mountaineering, I strongly second this. On the other hand I have no idea if there are enough climbers, mountaineers, and sailors who buy high-quality knives for Spyderco to justify that approach.

[Wartstein]

As a sailor and commercial mariner who spent my first three decades doing a lot of climbing, skiing, and mountaineering, I strongly second this. On the other hand I have no idea if there are enough climbers, mountaineers, and sailors who buy high-quality knives for Spyderco to justify that approach.

I guess there are actually NOT "enough climbers, mountaineers and sailors" for that..

But: As said, not my OWN opinion and approach at all (!), but as far as I can estimate "the market", what attracts knife enthusiast, what is seen as "exciting" by (sadly) influencial youtube - "reviewers" and the like:

It is not "yet another black FRN VG10 Seki folder" but rather a "totally new, linerless Salt model in high viz orange" (plus a totally blacked out version)...

[Wartstein]

[EDIT: Did not realize when I made the post below that actually ALL of the Jumpers are discontinued now... thought the Leaf Jumper PE would remain in the lineup... ]

Now a completely different approach:

- Can we even say that "the Jumpers failed", purely as a concept / platform?

- Or is it rather that

a) the wharnie blade shape was not as appreciated as hoped and
b) many still shy away from SE?

And consequently the RJ in SE/PE and the LJ in SE could not be kept in the lineup, but perhaps the LJ in PE does not do that bad? (No idea how sales are for that one compared to for example the Endela).

[Wartstein]

This, and your comments lamenting lack of edge length, is a lot of what kills the Delica/Endela comparisons for the Jumper in my mind. The leafjumper is over the common 3" legal limit, bulkier in pocket, thicker blade stock, and heavier than a Delica all while not having as much edge as an Endela.

IMO if the selling point is "upgraded" or "turbocharged" Delica the Jumpers don't make sense. K390 clip+wharncliffe Delicas and Endelas made sense to me - jumpers did not.
..

To me the Jumpers in Spydercos own lineup never "competed" with the Delica.

In size, weight, edge length, blade thickness, handle thickness, grip area on the handle and so on the Jumpers just for me belong into the Manix/Endela/Stretch category and are direct alternatives for those models.

Especially obvious imo is the comparison to the Seki sibling Endela - and here, though after a lot of consideration and pretty narrowly, for me the Endela "wins", despite the Jumpers are great models too.
And I have to say it, even if some don´t understand: One point for the Endela actually is the plus in cutting edge it offers.

[sal]

As I've said, It's quite challenging to try to guess a models's success in the market place. In the end, it get's down to; "Will the sales support the inventory""? The "why" is investigated for possible future models. The concept explored was to eliminate the "kick" area on the Endura family models without using a finger choil and still bring the edge to the handle on a lock-back.. The "handle forward" concept was an experiment to try to get there in a lock-back folder.

I remember the Rescue models took a much longer time to be accepted than we'd planned for, but in the end, they did survive in the marketplace. Perhaps the Jumpers might have survived, given a longer test period, but in these very highly competitive knife industry times, timing is more critical, and there are more models to test different features.

sal
======================================================================================

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[skeeg11]

Their names played a part in their downfall IMHO.

[sal]

Hi Skeeg,

That's also possible. We have found that names can do that.

sal

[wrdwrght]

If the Sequoia and Cliff Jumper (which I am looking forward to) have actually been forsaken, I suppose it can be said that the Jumpers failed.

Indeed, their epitaph might read: “Gone because Golden’s sales cut into theirs”, what with all the choices foisted upon us.

However, I think the disco’d Jumpers will have served to keep the handle-forward experiment on its low boil: from Seki’s D’Allara3 and Lil’Temperance3, to Taiwan’s Caribbean, and (after the first Jumpers) to Golden’s Bodacious, all being quietly fantastic.

But if this experiment fails (I hope it doesn’t), its epitaph might read: “Choils killed the maximized edge.”

But isn’t Spyderco all about the edge?

[jwbnyc]

Well, the handle forward design is well executed here. The handle is neutral with a hook at either end. It lends itself to a hammer grip, putting the wrapped index finger as far forward as is possible without interfering with the cut. While my preference falls more toward the Signature knives ergos generally, this is something else that works very well. I’ve been very happy with them and I thank you for them, Sal.

They are successful knives design-wise that may have fallen short in the marketplace.

Still great knives.

[RustyIron]

I really like the model and am sad to see it go.

What are your thoughts?

Did the knife "fail?"

I think that more than likely, someone had an idea for a knife. They built a bunch and sold them, which paid the wages for their hard-working employees. When sales leveled off or failed to keep pace with more popular models, the project was axed to provide needed resources elsewhere.

Look at all the other Spyderco knives that have been discontinued over the years. Were they all failures? If we never discontinued product lines, we'd all be driving Model T's. I don't think those were failures, either.