My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

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zhyla
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My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#1

Post by zhyla »

So... like a lot of people I pulled the trigger on the Native Chief LW in the recent MAPnesty sale in April. I had wanted a Native Chief forever. In the interim I bought and sold at least one Native 5 LW. Some of the things I didn't like about that knife carry over here, but not all of them. I posted some initial thoughts in the Native Chief LW!!! megathread. There's a lot of discussion in there about a couple issues. But I've been carrying this for a bit now and it's been long enough to say what I think about it.

I'll start on the inside. Here's what it looks like. It's a very simple design because so much of the complexity is baked into the scales. I think much was made of this when the Native 5 LW launched but it's still impressive. I can't think of anyone else that does plastic handled knives with this much thought.

Image

One thing I really like about this knife is the loud "clack" when you close the knife. Lots of tension from the lockbar closing it.

Now, let's look at the star of the show, that magnificent blade:

Image

The blade is amazing. Slicy, perfectly sharpened, nicely finished. The only nitpick I can find on the blade itself is the transition from SE to PE is just a little bit wonky looking (but works just fine):

Image

I like combo edge in a blade this size.

Next up: grip and ergos.

Image Image
Image Image

Ok here is the deal. And I know all the Native fans out there know that Natives have finger choils. I accepted that as gospel when I saw the first Chief prototype. I bought this knife assuming that the finger choil was a good idea. In general I place a lot of faith in Spyderco around the design of a knife.

My observation/complaint is that on a knife this size the unused handle length scales up to something significant. With my index finger in the choil (forward grip) I have over 1.5" of unused handle. With index finger behind the choil I still have 0.75" unused handle. With that rearward grip the blade feels really far forward of my hand, awkwardly so. I have large hands btw -- but nobody with small hands is buying this knife.

My conclusion is that the finger choil design doesn't scale up this big very well. It's functional but never feels quite right. My index finger really wants to be at the point where the choil and the main handle curve meet.

Btw the reverse hammer grip feels great.

Image

Ok, I'm going to address a few things in this picture, all of which are subjective:

1. The little bit of jimping on the lock bar never looks right. I think it's there to cover a cosmetic issue with the lockbar never quite matching the elevation of the spine where they meet. Maybe it would look worse without it. I mainly point this out to warn the OCD people. Not a functional issue.
2. As I mentioned in the Native 5 LW thread I linked above, I want more of a radius of chamfer around the edges of the scales. I'm somehow less bothered by it than with the smaller Native 5. Maybe they upped the radius a little? Maybe I just got used to it?
3. I think I'm in the minority but the scale texturing is way too aggressive. I know this is standard Spyderco texture design but it feels like an aggressively textured polymer handgun frame. I prefer the Chaparral LW texture by far. I just don't know that anything I do with a knife needs that much friction to maintain control of the knife. It hurts to squeeze the knife firmly!

Ok the criticisms get harsher from here on so stop reading if that's not your thing.

Image

This was covered extensively in the mega thread. The clip lands on the edge of the logo oval. This means it is snag city. I won't belabor the point: this is just bad design. Spyderco should CQI this. I replaced it with an inexpensive MXG clip that lands where it should:

Image

Next I will circle round to the first image I posted. Why did I take a brand new knife apart? Well, because I literally could not open it one handed. It came so stiff out of the box I thought something was wrong. I futzed with the pivot a lot and "cleaned" it (there was nothing to clean inside) and lubed it and it got better but not great. Someone posted in a Native 5 thread that the middle screw being over tightened exerts a lot of pressure on the lockbar and makes it stiff to open. With that sorted out it opens/closes ok but not as good as something with washers. My conclusion is the final assembly people are torquing these down too much. It would be obvious if there was QC at the end of the line making sure the knife opened acceptably. It was unusable out of the box without a set of torx bits handy.

I think the last thing is the clip screws are too long to mount the clip for tip down carry. It makes no sense. If you screw the clip onto the other side the knife simply will not open because the screws but up against the blade like brake calipers.

Conclusion

My recommendation is if you have a (healthy) irrational desire to own a Native Chief then don't let the (mostly) fixable issues keep you from doing so. It's a gorgeous knife.

If you think you just want a larger Native and this knife looks cool... be cautious. This knife isn't a home run in my assessment. Consider getting a Stretch instead.
Last edited by zhyla on Thu May 30, 2024 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fastidiotus
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#2

Post by Fastidiotus »

Thanks for taking the time for a detailed write up. I've long been wondering if this knife would replace the Endura for me, but have yet to pull the trigger. I really prefer BD1N to vg10, and I do prefer the Native 5 LW to the Delica.

Judging by your first photo it looks like the choil serves the same function as on the Manix. It isn't there because Spyderco thinks you'll want to choke up on the knife it's there to facilitate the lock into the narrow handle design. They can conveniently add jimping and spin it off as a feature.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#3

Post by kobold »

A 3.5" Native would be an outstanding "CQI".

So would incorporating phosphor bronze washers in FRN models.

"Simplication" is taken too far in this instance IMO.

Smooth action shouldn't be an exotic luxury available only to those willing to spend $$$ extra on aftermarket scales with PB washers.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#4

Post by p_atrick »

Thanks for the detailed thoughts and photos. I always enjoy posts like this.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#5

Post by PaloArt »

Very good, informative, and honest review. I think we need to see more of those. Cons were covered in a very professional way, I would say, and one would hope, in a way that might one day inspire CQI. Hat off.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#6

Post by Bolster »

Great review....thank you!!

I have a LW NC on the way, but now have a good idea of what tuning I'll need to do, when it arrives.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#7

Post by olditguy »

Great write up! I love mine and was able to open and close it with one hand right out of the box. Could you share the MXG clip part# if you have it handy. The one you bought matches the blade finish so much better than the shiny "short" stock one.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#8

Post by Coastal »

The OP was awesome! Love that type of review.

Doesn't this knife have the same construction as other linerless FRN models like the Stretch 2 XL and the various Salts? If so, the assembly technique should be down pat by now. All of my Spydies of similar construction work great, no washers or lube required. In fact, that simplicity is my favorite feature of the linerless Salt family, other than Saltiness itself. Strange, indeed, that this one is so stiff.

As for the ergonomic comments, they roughly echo my own thoughts about the G-10 Chief (I don't have the LW, and won't). It doesn't feel exactly right in any grip that I regularly use. In fairness, this is true of the Native itself, and I shouldn't have bought the Chief. Great in some hands, but not mine. To sum up, other similarly large Spyderco folders -- Millie, Stretch XL, Pac Salt, etc -- handle just fine, but the Chief feels clumsy.

An aside: I'm glad to see that particular MXG clip getting some attention. It improves the ergos of almost every knife I've tried it on.
Last edited by Coastal on Thu May 30, 2024 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#9

Post by Coastal »

olditguy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 9:27 am
Great write up! I love mine and was able to open and close it with one hand right out of the box. Could you share the MXG clip part# if you have it handy. The one you bought matches the blade finish so much better than the shiny "short" stock one.
It's #101061.
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Naperville
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#10

Post by Naperville »

Good article!

You have inspired me and I have to do a lengthy write up on the Spyderco Native Chief. It may take me a while... I'll start from scratch, take some photos, etc.

I will not be taking any knives apart, that is something that I will leave to you guys/gals. I never took any folders apart and I'd hate to run into any issues like stripped or broken screws. Maybe some day.
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zhyla
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#11

Post by zhyla »

Coastal wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 9:48 am
olditguy wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 9:27 am
Great write up! I love mine and was able to open and close it with one hand right out of the box. Could you share the MXG clip part# if you have it handy. The one you bought matches the blade finish so much better than the shiny "short" stock one.
It's #101061.
MXG link for that part. Pretty sure that's the one I ordered but the order email doesn't list the part number.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#12

Post by SaltyCaribbeanDfly »

Awesome review zhyla 👏👏👏
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#13

Post by olditguy »

Clip on the way! Thanks everyone.
zhyla
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#14

Post by zhyla »

kobold wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 1:10 am
So would incorporating phosphor bronze washers in FRN models.

"Simplication" is taken too far in this instance IMO.
This jogged my memory. The resistance isn't from the scales around the pivot. It's from the lock spring. If I depress the lock far enough (using my fingernail to push it deeper than the scales allow) the blade swings free. I think I've already tried to reduce the lock spring tension a bit. It's hard to remember because I took this knife apart so many days in the first week and tried a lot of things. I'm not sure why that spring is so strong. But on the bright side the knife stays closed very well.

So anyway, I don't think it needs washers necessarily. I do think there's a tolerance issue with the lock bar width vs the scale clearance. I can't think of any reason you'd want an interference fit with the lockbar.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#15

Post by SteveMidwest »

Thank you for the great review, @zhyla :bug-red-white

I am with you all of the way, when you mention - "My observation/complaint is that on a knife this size the unused handle length scales up to something significant."

I can say the same thing for the Manix 2 XL. I am just not the target market for a knife like this, and likely you are not either.

For me, I am only going to carry a knife that is so long/carry length, for the task I am going to be out to do, or am willing to carry, knowing what tasks might be ahead of me for the day, and those task for me are for the cutting edge, and not for the handle length. Whether it be a folding pocket knife, or fixed blade.

For me, if I am carrying a folding pocket knife that is 9.05" long, it had better have more than the 3.52" cutting edge length that is offered on the Native Chief. In my book, if my carry knife for the day is going to be this long, it's because I'll need a longer blade that day, not more to hold onto for mere moments, while I am making a quick cut. A knife this long, for me, needs to have the front finger choil placed fully under the pivot, on the knife handle. Thus giving us something like a 4" cutting edge. I love the design/forward finger placement/ratio of the Spyderco Kapara, which is absolutely perfect in this respect, at its given overall length (8.27")

Sal as a designer, has has talked about this in the past, concerning blade length/cutting edge to handle ratio,
as he replied to someone who was calling this efficiency :

"I'm not sure "efficiency" is the right word. I have learned over the years that "handles are for holding and blades are for cutting". The "ratio" between the two often has more to do with looks or personal preference than function.

A scalpel or a box cutter are good examples. They would not perform their intended tasks better with a different ratio.

A balance between cutting edge length and control over that edge is something we try to pay attention to when designing.

The "Tenacious family" of designs was specifically created to serve that customer that feels edge / handle ratio is important, so we focused on that requirement. A Dragonfly, for example, is a small knife that focuses on maximum control over a shorter edge." - Sal


So in essence, carry what you need, and rightfully so. Well said @sal

Just some numbers to look at, for consideration:

A Native Chief has 38.9% cutting edge
Endura 4 has 39% cutting edge
Kapara has 41.45% cutting edge
Tenacious has 43.63% cutting edge
Mule (fixed blade) has 44.6% cutting edge
ENUFF 2 (fixed blade) has 46.6% cutting edge
My custom fixed blade knife (7.875" overall, 3.75" cutting edge) is 47.6% cutting edge
zhyla
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#16

Post by zhyla »

One more thing I forgot. The lock needs to be fully depressed to disengage. Like, it needs to be depressed until it is flush with the indentation in the scales. This works fine if you press very intentionally with say a finger tip. With the side of my finger as I tend to use the extra give in the flesh of my finger doesn’t let the lock fully disengage.

The scales should probably be recessed just a little more.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#17

Post by Jeb »

I did flute my release area out more. Heck, I had to recess mine deeper to release mine. It just wasn't comfortable to release the blade lock.

I also enlarged the thumb hole size in the blade. The hole size was just not comfortable as I have come to use with the larger 14mm hole size of most of my others.

Then after that, I lowered the relief in the right-side scale; for my thumb to access the thumbhole in the blade.

These made a big difference in how I feel about the knife.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#18

Post by olditguy »

The MXG #101061 clip fit's perfectly and the color is much better than the shiny stock clip. Thanks again.
zhyla
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#19

Post by zhyla »

olditguy wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:27 pm
The MXG #101061 clip fit's perfectly and the color is much better than the shiny stock clip. Thanks again.
Yeah I’m digging the clip.

Spyderco should make Ti clips with their logo on it and sell them. Easy money.
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Re: My thoughts on the Native Chief LW

#20

Post by Bolster »

SteveMidwest wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 1:10 pm
Sal as a designer, has has talked about this in the past, concerning blade length/cutting edge to handle ratio,
as he replied to someone who was calling this efficiency...

Yeah, that "someone" was me. Here's what I said, excerpted for brevity:

Has anyone here calculated 'blade edge' - to - 'total length of knife,' as a ratio? A sort of "efficiency" ratio that tells you which knives give you the most blade for the least overall length? ...BTW, I'm not making a judgment call here. I love Yojimbos AND Stretches. Not saying either end of the scale is better. But I would be interested in this sort of "efficiency" score b/c I'm looking for a new pocket knife and I'd like to pack as much edge as I can.

I was looking for a high-ratio Spyderco that packs the most blade into the handle that I could find. Turns out, there are a lot of people who are interested in knives that are efficient in terms of blade-to-handle, and many others who are interested in edge-to-handle ratios.

The 2023 poll indicated about 44% desired maximum edge for handle length; another 44% preferred a medium ratio, and just 12% desired a large handle with a small edge. Based on the data, I'd say I'm not alone; there appears to be a legitimate marketplace desire for high-ratio blade, or at least high-ratio edge, knives.

As far as Sal's comments quoted above go, who could disagree? I use a big-handle-small-blade boxcutter frequently at work, when it's the right tool for the job. I carry a Yojimbo when it fits my intended purpose. I wasn't asking for a folding scalpel to use in surgery...obviously a large handle and small blade works there. I own plenty of X-acto knives, wood carving knives, and other specialty short-bladed knives.

I don't always want maximum edge for the handle size. But, like a lot of other people, sometimes I do! Clearly there are people who would like to see the Native Chief in a configuration that maximized edge length, and they're not "wrong" to want that. If Sal's not interested in making that knife, well, it's his option not to. However I suspect Spyderco's recent experimentation with 'handle-forward' designs (like the Bodacious) will yield more high-ratio knives in the future.
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