Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
- Doc Dan
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Personally, I'd like to see 14C28N in some knives. It is tough like AEB-L/13C26, but is a stainless nitrogen steel.
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Abyss_Fish wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 amI know there’s a lot of talk in here about hyper tough carbon steels. But I’ve been using and abusing knives in lc200n for close to a year now, and they have some incredible edge stability. The ONLY time I had lc200n chip out on me was when the sharp corner of a Ti lanyard bead was bashed into the factory edge on my waterway. Otherwise I have never had it chip. It’s a ridiculously well balanced steel.
Lc200n has toughness just above 1095, edge retention just above s30v, and ductility on par with 3V. While being impervious to pitting or rusting. Glorious stuff.
Plus an honorable mention to sg2/r2, I’ve abused multiple knives in that stuff at work almost daily for the last 6 months. No chips at all.
IME Spyderco's LC200N won't chip, but it will roll, so still has lower relative edge stability.
The only question is what is more prefereable, chipping or rolling, and the answer will depend on a number of factors and circumstances.
I think the question the OP should be asking is what is the ideal HT for each individual steel to maximize edge stability all other things (eg edge geometry, use) being equal.
And from that follows that the ideal HT for max edge stability will change as the edge geometry and use changes.
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
K390 has by far the most edge stability out of all the steels I’ve tried to date.
Though Rex45 and Cruwear are probably close.
Though Rex45 and Cruwear are probably close.
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
OK let me put it another way. Assuming it’s a folding knife from Spyderco - ![🙈](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f648.svg)
1. What knife/steel from Spyderco would you sharpen to a 10 - 15 DPS or maybe as high as 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use or lighter?
I’m especially looking for info on medium/EDC uses and Spyderco knife/steel you would run at 15 DPS OR LOWER.
My PM2 S45VN I keep at 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use. I use a different knife from a different company for heavy use and I run that one at 20 DPS. I have other knives and the bevel angles vary from one to another and I don’t pay as much attention to what they’re currently at because I liked how they came from the company and I just touch them up when needed.
Yup I’m trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. And yup it’s just another attempt to re-package the edge stability question. Well here goes nothing![🙈](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f648.svg)
1. What knife/steel from Spyderco would you sharpen to a 10 - 15 DPS or maybe as high as 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use or lighter?
I’m especially looking for info on medium/EDC uses and Spyderco knife/steel you would run at 15 DPS OR LOWER.
My PM2 S45VN I keep at 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use. I use a different knife from a different company for heavy use and I run that one at 20 DPS. I have other knives and the bevel angles vary from one to another and I don’t pay as much attention to what they’re currently at because I liked how they came from the company and I just touch them up when needed.
Yup I’m trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. And yup it’s just another attempt to re-package the edge stability question. Well here goes nothing
Greg
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Still waiting for Spyderco to get into 14C28N, but I'd settle for AEB-L since they already released a mule in that steel. Love 14C28N though.
![spyderco bug 1 :bug-red-white](./images/smilies/bug-red-white.png)
![spyderco bug 2 :bug-red](./images/smilies/bug-red.png)
![spyderco bug 3 :bug-white-red](./images/smilies/bug-white-red.png)
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Cru-Wear, Magnacut, 4V, or M4. They have high toughness at high hardness, which makes for a stable edge.
Visualizing the Tradeoff of Higher Hardness
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
- SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 pmI agree 100 percent Doc. I"ve seen 14C28N in other company"s knives and I'm confident Spyderco can do well with it.
Works very well in Kitchen Knives.
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Ankerson it is good to see your posts.Ankerson wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:15 pmSpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 pmI agree 100 percent Doc. I"ve seen 14C28N in other company"s knives and I'm confident Spyderco can do well with it.
Works very well in Kitchen Knives.
How do you rate tge Aichi Utility Steel series such as AUS 8 for edge stability? I have a Spyderco Endura made of that. A vintage one.
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Ankerson it is good to see your posts.Ankerson wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:15 pmSpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 pmI agree 100 percent Doc. I"ve seen 14C28N in other company"s knives and I'm confident Spyderco can do well with it.
Works very well in Kitchen Knives.
How do you rate the Aichi Utility Steel series such as AUS 8 for edge stability? I have a Spyderco Endura made of that. A vintage one.
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Anecdotal data points and propaganda,
I have more of these knives than any other kitchen knife because they just are awesome, the ZWILLING knives with “Cronidur 30” AKA LC200N steel. They claim their Ice treatment protocol adds to its already stellar performance and I agree.
“ Cronidur 30 - exclusive high-performance steel: this material is extremely resistant to corrosion and exhibits high levels of resilience. FRIODUR denotes knives which have been through a special ice-hardening process, making them a cut above in terms of quality. They possess outstanding properties when it comes to edge retention, corrosion resistance and flexibility.”
I sharpen my kitchen knives to a very acute angle and love how easy it is to tune the edges and have had no chipping issues.
People seem to forget the toughness of LC200N because of the stellar corrosion resistance properties but I do love this steel. It also only took one Spyderco in Rex45 for me to love the steel.
Heat treat is like personality, it goes a long way.
I have more of these knives than any other kitchen knife because they just are awesome, the ZWILLING knives with “Cronidur 30” AKA LC200N steel. They claim their Ice treatment protocol adds to its already stellar performance and I agree.
“ Cronidur 30 - exclusive high-performance steel: this material is extremely resistant to corrosion and exhibits high levels of resilience. FRIODUR denotes knives which have been through a special ice-hardening process, making them a cut above in terms of quality. They possess outstanding properties when it comes to edge retention, corrosion resistance and flexibility.”
I sharpen my kitchen knives to a very acute angle and love how easy it is to tune the edges and have had no chipping issues.
People seem to forget the toughness of LC200N because of the stellar corrosion resistance properties but I do love this steel. It also only took one Spyderco in Rex45 for me to love the steel.
Heat treat is like personality, it goes a long way.
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 8:14 pmAnkerson it is good to see your posts.Ankerson wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 4:15 pmSpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 2:35 pmI agree 100 percent Doc. I"ve seen 14C28N in other company"s knives and I'm confident Spyderco can do well with it.
Works very well in Kitchen Knives.
How do you rate the Aichi Utility Steel series such as AUS 8 for edge stability? I have a Spyderco Endura made of that. A vintage one.
I don't worry about edge stability per say of steels as I posted earlier in this thread.
![wink ;)](./images/smilies/winking-face.png)
AUS 8 is a very good steel for everyday use, sharpen it for the type of use it will see and it will be fine.
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
I’ve had good luck with Magnacut and Superblue at those lower edge angles. And as a bonus, they both do well sith high polish. Especially the Superblue, which combined with the Delica’s geometry make it a slicing machine. I keep my K390 Stretch at 13dps with I want to say a 19dps Microbevel, and that’s held up beautifully. Lots of dirty, raunchy cardboard got processed, cleaning out my Grandpa’s garage and it still cuts great.VandymanG wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 4:52 pmOK let me put it another way. Assuming it’s a folding knife from Spyderco -
1. What knife/steel from Spyderco would you sharpen to a 10 - 15 DPS or maybe as high as 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use or lighter?
I’m especially looking for info on medium/EDC uses and Spyderco knife/steel you would run at 15 DPS OR LOWER.
My PM2 S45VN I keep at 17.5 DPS for medium/EDC use. I use a different knife from a different company for heavy use and I run that one at 20 DPS. I have other knives and the bevel angles vary from one to another and I don’t pay as much attention to what they’re currently at because I liked how they came from the company and I just touch them up when needed.
Yup I’m trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. And yup it’s just another attempt to re-package the edge stability question. Well here goes nothing![]()
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Thanks you everyone. I got some really good info from you all. Greatly appreciated. Also got me considering some steels like LC200N which I had been kind of ignoring.
Greg
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
FYI, LC200N is run pretty soft. Yes, it's tough but it will roll if not used properly.
Visualizing the Tradeoff of Higher Hardness
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
- The Home Slice
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
A viewer of mine watched a recent video and suggested I post it to this thread.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Thank you I’m going to watch it now. Greatly appreciate the link. Watched it and as you noted it’s not perfect but I really liked it. You got a new follower. Well done.The Home Slice wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:37 pmA viewer of mine watched a recent video and suggested I post it to this thread.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.
Greg
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
Thanks for the interesting test! It doesn't exactly surprise me that NitroV and Magnacut had similar performance since they have similar toughness at the same hardness, confirming that edge stability is primarily determined by those factors along with geometry.The Home Slice wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:37 pmA viewer of mine watched a recent video and suggested I post it to this thread.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/bFcQU5D.png)
Visualizing the Tradeoff of Higher Hardness
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
S90V: Nirvana Manix XL CF Yojumbo CF Shaman CF Native 5 Fluted CF CPM-154/S90V: Manix 2 Magnacut: Native 5 Fluted Ti 4V: Manix 2 Marble CF Damasteel: Native 5 40th Anniversary ZDP-189: Dragonfly 2 Nishijin N690Co: PITS XHP: Chaparral Birdseye Maple
Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
I’ve seen that chart before but with you pointing it out and his video showing similar results I get it even more.Synov wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 9:39 pmThanks for the interesting test! It doesn't exactly surprise me that NitroV and Magnacut had similar performance since they have similar toughness at the same hardness, confirming that edge stability is primarily determined by those factors along with geometry.The Home Slice wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:37 pmA viewer of mine watched a recent video and suggested I post it to this thread.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.
![]()
Greg
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
* EDC - - - PM2 - S45VN, PM2 - Crucarta, Native 5 - CRUWEAR, Manix 2 LW - CPM M4
Mules in current use M398 and K294
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Re: Stable edge steels (NOT TOUGHNESS)
It’s gabe, **** yeah! Magna-cut’s balanced properties allowing it to hold a sweet edge for a long time doing this type of task speaks to the brilliance of the design choices.The Home Slice wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 8:37 pmA viewer of mine watched a recent video and suggested I post it to this thread.
The testing is admittedly on the imprecise side of things, as it is impossible to eliminate bias caused by geometry, heat-treatment, and hand movements - but I found the results interesting in terms of stable edge capabilities of different types of steel.
I’m not implying that this sort of testing is a better metric than existing edge retention tests, just adding a little puzzle piece (of wood batoning) to the edge retention/stability picture.