Sage series collection - What's the next Sage?

[kobold]

Sage 2 in MagnaCut and Cruwear please or better yet maybe reintroduce the Domino in those steels.

YES!!! Another vote for a Domino re-release! I’ve asked about this several times recently, either in its original form or the Domino 2 which has been mentioned previously. The Sage is a very nice model but it never really fit my hand well, certainly compared to the Native 5. The ergos of the Domino blow both of them out of the water, and is very deserving of another run. But no Dice please (pun intended), it’s a weird little guy. Go team Domino!!

These are stunning. Great style and scales!
I keep forgetting about these two models, when they are hitting a lot of spots for me.

[Mat_ski]

Count me in the minority, but I'd rather wish the management team make the long-requested Para-3 sized Manix instead of a CBBL Sage...

I would also prefer that.

I don´t know folks, let me explain:

- Imo a "Para 3 sized" smaller Manix would absolutely have to get rid of the Manix 2 pinky hook.
- This hook works great for most hand sizes to really lock the hand in when not choking up on the Manix 2.
- BUT: In a smaller Manix the pinky hook would actually restrict the grip area on the handle to much, most hand sizes would be forced to choke up in the choil - and WHEN choking up in the choil the hand is locked in by the index finger in the choil anyway, so no pinky hook needed in the first place.

Now: A CBBL Sage would offer just that:
Very manix-ish overall shape (ok, no "secondary" guard / finger groove), but a handle that actually maximizes the grip area on the actual handle as much as possible (handle made as long as possible on the downside, no pinky hook).

Just my 2y, and what I´d really like to see getting transferred from the Manix 2 in a smaller version (or a CBBL Sage) would be a linerless, light FRCP version...

I'm not sure if pinky hook is the defining feature of Manix 2. It is not a factor in the way I hold the knife.

I enjoy both Manix 2 and Sage 5 handles. Either works for me, but I prefer Manix 2 mostly for the closed back. I assume Sage with CBBL would also have closed back. Closed back Sage handle would be essentially the same shape as Native 5, which I absolutely love.

For me, the most significant difference between the two is the blade shape. I understand on picture they look very similar, but Sage (at least the one I got) is pretty wide near the tip, while Manix tapers down more aggressively. Maybe this can be quantified in some way (i.e. width to length ratio at % distance from the tip). Sage reminds me of spatula with a tip, while Manix is more like an arrowhead. I prefer the maneuverability of the Manix-type blade. Chaparral is also different form the two, but it is closer to Manix in use (besides the obvious size difference).

Of course for some it may not make any difference, and I'm just being obnoxiously specific.

[Sharp Guy]

For me, the most significant difference between the two is the blade shape. I understand on picture they look very similar, but Sage (at least the one I got) is pretty wide near the tip, while Manix tapers down more aggressively. Maybe this can be quantified in some way (i.e. width to length ratio at % distance from the tip). Sage reminds me of spatula with a tip, while Manix is more like an arrowhead. I prefer the maneuverability of the Manix-type blade. Chaparral is also different form the two, but it is closer to Manix in use (besides the obvious size difference).

Of course for some it may not make any difference, and I'm just being obnoxiously specific.

Lay the blade of your Manix 2 on top the Sage 5 and line the spines up. The Sage has a little more curve to the edge but there's really not as much of a difference as you make it sound. I think what makes them seem so different is the longer blade on the Manix

[Mat_ski]

For me, the most significant difference between the two is the blade shape. I understand on picture they look very similar, but Sage (at least the one I got) is pretty wide near the tip, while Manix tapers down more aggressively. Maybe this can be quantified in some way (i.e. width to length ratio at % distance from the tip). Sage reminds me of spatula with a tip, while Manix is more like an arrowhead. I prefer the maneuverability of the Manix-type blade. Chaparral is also different form the two, but it is closer to Manix in use (besides the obvious size difference).

Of course for some it may not make any difference, and I'm just being obnoxiously specific.

Lay the blade of your Manix 2 on top the Sage 5 and line the spines up. The Sage has a little more curve to the edge but there's really not as much of a difference as you make it sound. I think what makes them seem so different is the longer blade on the Manix

For me it makes enough of a difference to make me notice, but I did mention I may be very particular. Manix being the longer knife has different proportions near the tip that I favor over the proportions of the Sage. Chaparral’s proportions seem closer to the Manix than the Sage despite being shorter than the latter.

Sage is one of my favorites, but I wouldn’t be a human if I didn’t have an opinion.

After all it is the little things that matter especially when options are so plentiful.

[sal]

I'm still hoping the Sage6 will be a button lock or CBBL, as long as it doesn't require expanding the body of the knife like the Sage3. In the meantime I'll continue to lobby for a Sage2 reboot like the Sage1 got :)

Hi Abbazaba,

You keep on nagging. I'll keep on watching. If we did another run, we'd have to change it in some ways. otherwise it could hurt the collector value of the original run.'

sal

People want a rerun of the knife likely to use the knife not collect the knife. I personally think there’s more value to having your knives used than keeping a model back due to perceived loss of value that a knife collector might feel.

To hold a model back because some collector will take a $75 loss on their collection seems misplaced. I’m not trying to be overly critical here but to me, not rerunning a knife to preserve some random collectors’ value seems quite ridiculous.

Just my .02.

Hi Rinzler,

Appreciate your comment, but the fact of the matter is that some customers do collect our models and have asked that our "Sprint" runs be different from earlier versions. We try our best to listen to our customer's requests.

sal

[Rinzler]

Understood. Thanks for the response.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Personally, I don't really desire another run of the Sage 2 but wouldn't pass on one either. You could anodize the Ti blue and use a different steel. Similar to what you did for the KJ Slysz Bowie

This. Just convince KJ or another vendor to release an exclusive version of the Sage 2 with anodized Ti and a different steel.

[JSumm]

Great idea!

[Wartstein]

I'm not sure if pinky hook is the defining feature of Manix 2. It is not a factor in the way I hold the knife.

I enjoy both Manix 2 and Sage 5 handles. Either works for me, but I prefer Manix 2 mostly for the closed back. I assume Sage with CBBL would also have closed back. Closed back Sage handle would be essentially the same shape as Native 5, which I absolutely love.

For me, the most significant difference between the two is the blade shape. I understand on picture they look very similar, but Sage (at least the one I got) is pretty wide near the tip, while Manix tapers down more aggressively. Maybe this can be quantified in some way (i.e. width to length ratio at % distance from the tip). Sage reminds me of spatula with a tip, while Manix is more like an arrowhead. I prefer the maneuverability of the Manix-type blade. Chaparral is also different form the two, but it is closer to Manix in use (besides the obvious size difference).

Of course for some it may not make any difference, and I'm just being obnoxiously specific.

Can´t really argue with you about Manix 2 vs Sage, cause I only really know the former.
So if you say that their blade shapes are different enough, I believe you of course!

Perhaps though I was not clear enough on the pinky-hook-thing, since you say "it is not a factor the way [you] hold the knife":

- On a scaled down Manix 2 that pinky hook would have to get a factor for most, other than really small hand sizes, cause as soon as one would not choke up on the choil, the grip area on the handle would get too short for four fingers due to that pinky hook (again, that is on a handle shaped exactly like the Manix 2 handle but scaled down)

- So imo on the current Manix 2 (in the Manix 2 size) that pinky hook is great, since most (other than really large) hand sizes get locked in on the handle and prevented from sliding backwards.
Make that same knife smaller/shorter, and the pinky hook is just "in the way" for a bit larger hands.

Anyway: I´d totally be for a smaller Manix, exactly like the Manix 2, but only one single thing changed: No pinky hook, or at least pinky hook moved further back, so that still four finger fit comfortably on that handle!

[Bolster]

...I´d totally be for a smaller Manix, exactly like the Manix 2, but only one single thing changed: No pinky hook, or at least pinky hook moved further back, so that still four finger fit comfortably on that handle!

I could live without the pinky hook, too--although I don't mind it. The Manix almost has a "subhilt" between the index and the middle fingers, which IMO gives plenty of no-slip grip without the additional slip-protection of a pinky hook. But there'd be additional complications of needing to seat the blade further, the clip attachment screw, etc.

I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree, but I've always felt I already had a mini-manix (minus the CBBL) with a Sage or a Caly 3.

What would hold no interest for me, is a shortened Manix that was just as "chubby" or "tall" as the existing Manix. If the Manix gets shrunk, I'd want to see some shrinkage in the "tallness" dimension, too. Manix is 1.77" tall, Sage is 1.61" tall, and Caly 3 is 1.45" tall. It doesn't seem like much, but the "tallness" dimension makes a big impact on carryability.

[Wartstein]

People want a rerun of the knife likely to use the knife not collect the knife. I personally think there’s more value to having your knives used than keeping a model back due to perceived loss of value that a knife collector might feel.

To hold a model back because some collector will take a $75 loss on their collection seems misplaced. I’m not trying to be overly critical here but to me, not rerunning a knife to preserve some random collectors’ value seems quite ridiculous.

Just my .02.

On a purely personal level I am totally with you.
I just can´t understand (again, on a personal level) why it should be suddenly less nice to own a cool knife (as a "collector" or whatever...) as soon as more pieces of that model come out and more people can enjoy the design. I´d actually be happy for those folks.

But: I do respect that there are that kind of "collectors" out there, who for whatever reasons enjoy their knives more if they know that not many others can (not meaning to be sarcastic).

And I think Spyderco could and would (and will?) make both "collectors" and folks who also want to enjoy a Sage 2 happy:
When Sal says they´d "have to change it in some ways" this could certainly be things that would not really change the overall knife design, but rather minor or purely optical details, so that the "collectors" still can enjoy the exclusiveness of their treasure, but generally more people could enjoy the general design.

[Wartstein]

I could live without the pinky hook, too--although I don't mind it. The Manix almost has a "subhilt" between the index and the middle fingers, which IMO gives plenty of no-slip grip without the additional slip-protection of a pinky hook. But there'd be additional complications of needing to seat the blade further, the clip attachment screw, etc.

Great points!

This "subhilt", if they kept it on a scaled down Manix, would make the pinky hook even less necessary. Again, I love that hook on the Manix 2 and in its size, but make that handle smaller and I´d "hate" it, cause I could not get four fingers on the handle any more.

But you´re also right on your other points: Perhaps removing the pinky hook on a 3" Manix would make more redesign necessary than just this.

Anyway: To me a CBBL Sage would be "Lil Manix" enough, especially if they made a linerless FRCP version (which would never happen though, I guess.. )

[Mushroom]

...I´d totally be for a smaller Manix, exactly like the Manix 2, but only one single thing changed: No pinky hook, or at least pinky hook moved further back, so that still four finger fit comfortably on that handle!

I could live without the pinky hook, too--although I don't mind it. The Manix almost has a "subhilt" between the index and the middle fingers, which IMO gives plenty of no-slip grip without the additional slip-protection of a pinky hook. But there'd be additional complications of needing to seat the blade further, the clip attachment screw, etc.

I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree, but I've always felt I already had a mini-manix (minus the CBBL) with a Sage or a Caly 3.

What would hold no interest for me, is a shortened Manix that was just as "chubby" or "tall" as the existing Manix. If the Manix gets shrunk, I'd want to see some shrinkage in the "tallness" dimension, too. Manix is 1.77" tall, Sage is 1.61" tall, and Caly 3 is 1.45" tall. It doesn't seem like much, but the "tallness" dimension makes a big impact on carryability.

Do you find that the current Manix 2 is too tall to carry comfortably?

If Spyderco ever produces a mini Manix 2, the height of the knife won’t increase. Proportionally it might look taller but it wouldn’t exceed any of the current Manix 2 dimensions.

When comparing the “cockpit area” of the Manix 2 to the Manix 2 XL, there is a bit of change in height. The “cockpit area” of the Manix 2 is slightly downsized in comparison to the Manix 2 XL. That being said, maybe Spyderco will apply that same design language if they ever choose to create a mini Manix 2.

[araneae]

I'd be super interested in Spyderco's take on a crossbar lock as well as Snecx's Superlock.

Hi Araneae,

So, by the Crossbar lock. I guess you mean the Axis? Tell me more about the Snecx Tan Superlock?

sal

Hey Sal, yes I do mean the Axis or crossbar lock. I'd be interested in your take on this. There have been some interesting variations/improvements since the patent lapsed. As for being the last kid on the block, I think you underestimate the interest in a well done crossbar.

The super lock is pretty interesting in that it can be easily disassembled if one is so inclined for cleaning, is ambidextrous, and very strong. He also left it in the public domain. I find my Civivi Vision to be incredibly smooth and well designed, despite being a bit nontraditional looking. You should have a look, I think you'd be interested.

[Bolster]

...Do you find that the current Manix 2 is too tall to carry comfortably?

If Spyderco ever produces a mini Manix 2, the height of the knife won’t increase. Proportionally it might look taller but it wouldn’t exceed any of the current Manix 2 dimensions....

Yes, I own a lot of Manix 2s and love them in use, but for me, they're not fun to carry in pocket.

[Mushroom]

...Do you find that the current Manix 2 is too tall to carry comfortably?

If Spyderco ever produces a mini Manix 2, the height of the knife won’t increase. Proportionally it might look taller but it wouldn’t exceed any of the current Manix 2 dimensions....

Yes, I own a lot of Manix 2s and love them in use, but for me, they're not fun to carry in pocket.

I agree, it’s a really great knife in use but it also toes the line of pocket hog territory in my opinion.

[Wartstein]

...

Yes, I own a lot of Manix 2s and love them in use, but for me, they're not fun to carry in pocket.

It´s funny how different folks are concerning what they find to be a "nice" carry - for some, like obviously you too, width in pocket matters a lot. And I figure Sage and Manix are pretty wide at their widest point when closed.

I personally though find the Manix (and would most likely also the Sage) a very convenient carry:
(Too much) LENGTH in pocket is what I don´t like, width does not matter, especially when the handle end is actually slim and rounded, so that the hand can pass by the knife in pocket smoothly (both Manix and Sage are only tip up, so that handle end is the part closest to the rim of the pocket).

The PM2 for example is a bit less tall then the Manix at the widest point when closed, but the handle end is actually pretty wide and "blocks" the pocket more.

[Larry_Mott]

I'm still hoping the Sage6 will be a button lock or CBBL, as long as it doesn't require expanding the body of the knife like the Sage3. In the meantime I'll continue to lobby for a Sage2 reboot like the Sage1 got :)

Hi Abbazaba,

You keep on nagging. I'll keep on watching. If we did another run, we'd have to change it in some ways. otherwise it could hurt the collector value of the original run.'

sal

Maybe i should start nagging about a Neely lock Sage again? :)

[chronovore]

@sal ,

Since we are brainstorming here, this is my Sage. I made the ergonomics more neutral and smooth, including a crowned spine and chamfered Spydie hole. (It's a little rough but this was my first time doing this level of modification.)

This is the kind of knife I want from Spyderco.

[Tristan_david2001]

And there you have it