Get me excited about M398

[TkoK83Spy]

This thread just gets stranger and stranger by the minute, who are these dudes!?!

[sal]

Hi TkoK83Spy,

I guess we'll see in time?

Hey Jason,

Interesting history. I would guess most folks here have an interesting history. Life is a "Long and winding road".

Hope Mike' gets well quickly.

I guess we're getting a bit off topic here?

sal

[VeraX_Knives]

Hi TkoK83Spy,

I guess we'll see in time?

Hey Jason,

Interesting history. I would guess most folks here have an interesting history. Life is a "Long and winding road".

Hope Mike' gets well quickly.

I guess we're getting a bit off topic here?

sal

Definitely, that's why I kinda just didn't respond we should be talking about m398. Which uhm. If ya had to ask me. Sure mpl-1 interests me (like that's difficult to do) but that's like just a higher alloy 0 difference in.. carbide propagation with lower toughness albeit, as low as m398 it's not going to be say. 1v vs 10v, molecularly it's not that different just kinda on steroids. If I had to pick something to market test? Mpl-1 perhaps. Sales or. In any other way shape or form I just couldn't really recommend that or I'd be lying. Didn't you guys do any sprint runs or m398? I think I recall something about that or it was that horrid m390 that I have nightmares about, but m390 is. M390 I don't think I would have committed it to memory. Or I may be thinking about Larrin's testing data which is incredibly useful for references. Over m390, m398, CPM MPL-1, I'd pick Maxamet but I'd try m398. I believe others would also.

Jas

[sal]

Hey Jas,

Already 9 pages of chat about it. You may want to begin at page 1 and catch up on the conversation.

sal

[VeraX_Knives]

You're totally right there. See I'll admit right now that was a good example of my generational laziness. I saw an old thread and.. well I know steel lol. However you made a very big mistake there sir Sal.

Guess who didn't get that sticker? Mhhm. Guess who's a total sticker nerd and would like it. Mhhm For real though, I would honestly take like a.. back window sticker. I drive what I suppose some people would call a "flashy" car and it'll do some advertising for you, no bumper type stickers on this car however, the vinyl glass ones would be great if you guys made them. I love sticker packs. I haven't even checked if you offer them for sale or not but I don't believe that I have seen anything like that before. Random offer/ask I'm sorry lol.

I just wanted to summarize why I was saying the certain things that I was. We both know how other people can read it so.. I was. Trying not to.. beat a dead horse .. more.. spectating with a Louisville slugger in hand? I'm still trying to figure out my purpose here and I.. cannot explain in words like Larrin can if that's not extremely obvious. So it's like some of the people are asking about carbide makeup which. Surely I can get but as I'm assuming we both.. think? That data is.. entirely useless without not just knowing. Say, what critical temp is, but understanding it? Which to me seems like the biggest issue with the internet. Sorry for getting off topic slightly.

What I find interesting about it is the 20 percent chromium along with all the vanadium to get edge retention. This ought to make it a really "stainless" steel with a lot of edge holding. To my thinking a lot like S90V or S110V as far as being corrosion resistant with a lot of hard carbides to help it hold an edge, but correspondingly hard to sharpen.

Do we know if the chromium went primarily into carbides (making large and relatively softer carbides, and reducing toughness) or stayed in the matrix (making a relatively corrosion resistant steel)? Granted, the vanadium carbides would negate the softer chromium carbides to a degree, but I'm unaware of chromium carbides being good for toughness.

I don't off the top of my head no. Chromium carbides (there's various types) don't but chromium actually does increase toughness in small amounts depending on chemistry. It's not why it's in say uh. 5160. 52100 which is hardenability but any hsla alloy basically is.. using it and silicon for strength usually*.

It also makes the CrC become VC in this specific application and if I had to guess without running software - it's going to be probably around 6-7.5% CrC

[Ramonade]

You're talking about knowing stuff but when speaking with an entire community of people with very different levels of knowledge/culture on the subject, it can't really bring a lot to the discussion if you do not have a way to vulgarize or explain what you know as facts. That might be one of the reason people don't engage much in the discussion.

I can't tell if my sentence makes any sense, sorry, but that's something I've wanted to say since you arrived here. For a french guy like me it's kinda hard to understand everything you're saying because your prose style seems to be close to the "stream of consciousness". But I'm sure that this is only a "me" problem !

[Steeltoez83]

We probably should have made multiple threads here. Thread dedicated to the theoretical and physical evaluations of this steel. I don't work for spyderco and I don't tell them what recipe to follow in terms of heat treat. I can provide my own experiences to assist with their overall evaluations on the sample I have. I try to do that with every mule team I own bcuz that's what was asked of me. M398 compares to s110V thru the mileage and testing I have done personally. I think keeping the edge angle at 15-17 dps is the best in terms of overall stability and performance. On 2 week dedicated carries of my m398 mule I'd touch mine up every few days on the the red dmt diafold sharpener I was carrying. I suppose the double stuff 2 could work but I don't own one. I saw diminishing returns at higher grit finishes and low angles just like I do with s110v. I've already stated my views earlier in this thread and they have not changed. M398 is just aggressive in nature, and I have found a way to embrace its attributes.

[Ramonade]

We probably should have made multiple threads here. Thread dedicated to the theoretical and physical evaluations of this steel. I don't work for spyderco and I don't tell them what recipe to follow in terms of heat treat. I can provide my own experiences to assist with their overall evaluations on the sample I have. I try to do that with every mule team I own bcuz that's what was asked of me. M398 compares to s110V thru the mileage and testing I have done personally. I think keeping the edge angle at 15-17 dps is the best in terms of overall stability and performance. On 2 week dedicated carries of my m398 mule I'd touch mine up every few days on the the red dmt diafold sharpener I was carrying. I suppose the double stuff 2 could work but I don't own one. I saw diminishing returns at higher grit finishes and low angles just like I do with s110v. I've already stated my views earlier in this thread and they have not changed. M398 is just aggressive in nature, and I have found a way to embrace its attributes.

Thanks again for your feedback and the work you put in steeltoez. I did not even try a high grit finish with my M398 Mule yet, I went for the same kind of edges I put on M390. I took one side down to and the other up to 17° and finished at 600 grit. The bite I was able to produce was just fine, even if I prefer what I'm able to get with K390 at the same grit.

I know that it's a user result, not necessarily linked to the steel but I wanted to share that too.

[Steeltoez83]

We probably should have made multiple threads here. Thread dedicated to the theoretical and physical evaluations of this steel. I don't work for spyderco and I don't tell them what recipe to follow in terms of heat treat. I can provide my own experiences to assist with their overall evaluations on the sample I have. I try to do that with every mule team I own bcuz that's what was asked of me. M398 compares to s110V thru the mileage and testing I have done personally. I think keeping the edge angle at 15-17 dps is the best in terms of overall stability and performance. On 2 week dedicated carries of my m398 mule I'd touch mine up every few days on the the red dmt diafold sharpener I was carrying. I suppose the double stuff 2 could work but I don't own one. I saw diminishing returns at higher grit finishes and low angles just like I do with s110v. I've already stated my views earlier in this thread and they have not changed. M398 is just aggressive in nature, and I have found a way to embrace its attributes.

Thanks again for your feedback and the work you put in steeltoez. I did not even try a high grit finish with my M398 Mule yet, I went for the same kind of edges I put on M390. I took one side down to and the other up to 17° and finished at 600 grit. The bite I was able to produce was just fine, even if I prefer what I'm able to get with K390 at the same grit.

I know that it's a user result, not necessarily linked to the steel but I wanted to share that too.

Thanks Robin. I noticed my M390 underperformed compared to my 20CV on my manixes or menixes and could hold a higher grit finish better. The seki k390 stuff checks alot of boxes for me too. The leafjumper hasn't left my pocket for weeks.

[VeraX_Knives]

You're talking about knowing stuff but when speaking with an entire community of people with very different levels of knowledge/culture on the subject, it can't really bring a lot to the discussion if you do not have a way to vulgarize or explain what you know as facts. That might be one of the reason people don't engage much in the discussion.

I can't tell if my sentence makes any sense, sorry, but that's something I've wanted to say since you arrived here. For a french guy like me it's kinda hard to understand everything you're saying because your prose style seems to be close to the "stream of consciousness". But I'm sure that this is only a "me" problem !

Hahaha no sir that's not a you problem. That's truly exactly how I type and yes how my brain works also. I apologize for that one, native English speakers have issues with my typing. I assure you that it's me. Not you.

I'm well aware of that issue also as I said above. I was asked here to explain some things that people were asking about but not getting fully informed answers. I can actually type it out but I can't dumb down the science stuff to a way that.. people who don't have a graduate degree in this stuff can know AND understand.

We probably should have made multiple threads here. Thread dedicated to the theoretical and physical evaluations of this steel. I don't work for spyderco and I don't tell them what recipe to follow in terms of heat treat. I can provide my own experiences to assist with their overall evaluations on the sample I have. I try to do that with every mule team I own bcuz that's what was asked of me. M398 compares to s110V thru the mileage and testing I have done personally. I think keeping the edge angle at 15-17 dps is the best in terms of overall stability and performance. On 2 week dedicated carries of my m398 mule I'd touch mine up every few days on the the red dmt diafold sharpener I was carrying. I suppose the double stuff 2 could work but I don't own one. I saw diminishing returns at higher grit finishes and low angles just like I do with s110v. I've already stated my views earlier in this thread and they have not changed. M398 is just aggressive in nature, and I have found a way to embrace its attributes.

Thanks again for your feedback and the work you put in steeltoez. I did not even try a high grit finish with my M398 Mule yet, I went for the same kind of edges I put on M390. I took one side down to and the other up to 17° and finished at 600 grit. The bite I was able to produce was just fine, even if I prefer what I'm able to get with K390 at the same grit.

I know that it's a user result, not necessarily linked to the steel but I wanted to share that too.

Thanks Robin. I noticed my M390 underperformed compared to my 20CV on my manixes or menixes and could hold a higher grit finish better. The seki k390 stuff checks alot of boxes for me too. The leafjumper hasn't left my pocket for weeks.

I'm going to chime in here about cartech vs other companies. Am I nuts for thinking that carpenter can sometimes make the same thing just better? I don't know if that's a psychological thing or. But for real it does seem like something that I have noticed. I'm not sure why at ALL. Opinions there guys?


My question would be if you put the same finish on k390 as m398 - I'd assume k390 would test better/work better with a high grit finish (well use 600 but you guys tell me) if you get a chance to @Ramonade, let me know what you think of high grit m398 vs k390. I'm curious. Also, I didn't intend for that post to come off like that. There's a lot of stuff that I don't know and I'm not God himself, all I meant was that spending a decade reading useless stuff could help someone on here. If I could I'd love to type out a "why HIC works.. how it does" but unfortunately I know that it would just be buried in posts and very few people would care or be interested in. Plus, that's just physics as we understand it right now. Which is far from.. what it really is which in my opinion is beyond our capabilities of understanding it fully. I'll never say that I know everything and I'll be wrong occasionally. I'm human. Just that simple. I literally wake up with the thought "Do I know what I think I do" and I believe 'science', is the act of always questioning things. Especially ourselves and just knowing that we are human beings and will be wrong and make mistakes. Just hope they're small ones!

This thread just gets stranger and stranger by the minute, who are these dudes!?!

People who are wearing the last suit they'll ever wear.

Jason