Get me excited about M398

[Steeltoez83]

I've tested the Aeb-l mule. The heat treat is dialed in very well. I prefer it over my b70p mule. I do incorporate ceramic waterstones in testing against diamond stones from time to time. Even my medium brown spyderco benchstone to artificially replicate a sharpmaker user maintaining their edge after a day of honest work. I prefer to stay away from cutting mediums like cardboard and rope bcuz other testers I respect use them. And I'd rather be different vs a copy cat.

[VeraX_Knives]

Hey Jason,

We don't bash each other here. Not Larrin or anybody else. Not negotiable. My forum. My rules.

sal

*EDITED - Private Message Incoming - Kristi*

[hollowt1pz]

[Steeltoez83]

I probably should create my own thread for my own testing of mules and other knives. However I will keep it centered around spyderco products unless given permission. The first thing I do is measure the overall cutting edge no matter which knife I'm testing. Right now it happens to be cpm154 at 64 hrc, but it's a non spyderco product. I use sanding rolls as my abrasive media for a few reasons. First I can atleast attempt to balance the workload across the entire apex. Second I can cut in the air and avoid external detractors. Third I can set myself apart from other testers. There are 3 sized sanding rolls I buy from red label abrasives. For edge lengths around 65 mm and under such as the delica or ukpk I use the 1 inch roll. At 66 to 94mm I use the 1.5 inch rolls. The military 1 is right at that ceiling in that weight class. And for the 2 inch roll I move up to 125 mm which allows me to test large folders and some smaller kitchen knives like pettys and pairers. I use this notepad drawing as my guideline to properly place the testing knife in the appropriate class. With testing this way I feel every knife is represented fairly. As the knife proceeds thru testing I evaluate where I acquire the incision point but that's another topic for another day. I have seen other testers tape off sections to adhere to their own test standards. I think it's just easier to structure testing this way. Especially if your testing finished products instead of steel squares.

[sal]

Hi Steeltoes,

Thanx for sharing. great stuff. One of the beauties and real reward of others testing. If possible, some pics of the actual test would be great.

As far as other companies go, probably best to just post Spyderco here on this forum. Thank you for your kind understanding and cooperation.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

Sure thing Sal. I'm working on gathering test data on the cts b70p mule along with a commentary to hopefully explain my testing style with better clarity. My picture game ain't the greatest but I will do my best to explain the reason behind everything I do.

[VeraX_Knives]

Sure thing Sal. I'm working on gathering test data on the cts b70p mule along with a commentary to hopefully explain my testing style with better clarity. My picture game ain't the greatest but I will do my best to explain the reason behind everything I do.

I'd like your data man if that's possible. PM me when you get a chance some information on how you're testing and other things. I'm a cartech guy. I've always wanted to try b70p. Pity I missed that. It's really nice how the mules are not finished completely so that way in case you just want to test the material you could anneal it yourself and test different heat treatments, although in my personal opinion.. Spydercos heat treatments from Taiwan and the US are honestly really spot on what they advertise. My Maxamet was the first Spyderco that I got, when it tested out at 68Rc quite literally... EXACTLY 68. I became a repeat customer instantly. I wish I could speak to the Byrd series or anything from China but I haven't tested it myself, albeit I would assume just as consistent. I only own a few Spydercos but I have a CCW permit and my blade EDC choice is almost always a Spyderco. I only switch if I need something worse I don't have to worry about breaking. Mike is like that guy on YouTube uh. Metal complex with Spydercos.

Sal, I hope that we got our misunderstandings corrected and that you had a great Easter, same to everyone else here. I'm just going to try to stick with explaining science to people who have questions and try not to be uhh. Dialectical.

Jas

[sal]

Thanx Steeltoes.

Hey Jas,

No problem. Kristi kept me in the loop. We're OK.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

I have probably ran close to 600 different experiments over the last 10 years so it would be near impossible to provide everything I've accumulated over the years. Some testing styles were ditched in favor of others, but that happens when 1 tries to constantly improve. I do like maxamet BTW. It was part of my rust testing cycle I did 8 or 9 months ago. I used 2 coats of chapstick and soaked my manix in rain water for 8 hours a day for a week. I reapplied the coatings everyday and repeated that test. First time I've ever kept rainwater in my crockpot for a week but there is a first for everything I suppose.

[sal]

Hey Steeltoes,

Appreciate the dedicaton.

sal
____________________________________________________________________________________

"Continual improvent is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[VeraX_Knives]

I have probably ran close to 600 different experiments over the last 10 years so it would be near impossible to provide everything I've accumulated over the years. Some testing styles were ditched in favor of others, but that happens when 1 tries to constantly improve. I do like maxamet BTW. It was part of my rust testing cycle I did 8 or 9 months ago. I used 2 coats of chapstick and soaked my manix in rain water for 8 hours a day for a week. I reapplied the coatings everyday and repeated that test. First time I've ever kept rainwater in my crockpot for a week but there is a first for everything I suppose.

Hahahaha. Maxamet has been and is my EDC for 3 years in a gray Sage 1. I like the sage blade leaf shape really well. It'll corrode but it's very easy to keep up with it. Unless you need a pry bar, it's got a great edge keeping ability.

I'm curious about the rainwater methodology. What's the intention there purification or trace minerals? I'm assuming the latter? I always use deionized (DI) water and an additive. What depends. Just a little bit more consistent results recommendation but I don't know if that's the intent because of real world use.

I second the appreciation for the dedication.

[Steeltoez83]

Thanks Jason and Sal.

I chose rainwater mostly for accessibility and cost. I imagined a worker being stuck outside in the rain during his shift with a rust prone steel in his pocket. It's an extremely cheap style of testing to replicate as well. The Salt series does indeed have a place in the market. However I made the claim about chapstick for years before actually truly testing it. A simple tube of chapstick and a daily routine care system is all that's required for the most part. Since all tap water is pulled from all different types of aquifers and pulled to treatment plants and goes thru different treatments depending on the setup for each plant. I figured it was just easier to use rainwater to keep it simple for the average person. Deep diving into trihalomethanine formations during water treatment cycles has a way of making most ppl exit stage left anyways. I like to keep my testing on the budget side and relatable to the average person.

[sal]

Hey Steeltoes,

How do you collect the rainwater? Have you done any Ph testing on the rainwater? Ph testers are pretty cheap. I think i'll get s new Ph tester and start testing rainwater myself. I remember all of the "scares" about acid rain.

sal

[Steeltoez83]

Just 2 empty 5 gallon buckets left out in the rain Sal. I was doing some stonework in the backyard at that time, so once I had a rainy day I had something to look forward to. We have 2 of those pH digital testers at work. And I edc a bottle of pH strips when I'm out in the field. Most pool chemical stores offer free pH testing by me. Bcuz Chlorine becomes effective in pool water around a 7.2 to 7.6 if I remember right.

[VeraX_Knives]

Hey Steeltoes,

How do you collect the rainwater? Have you done any Ph testing on the rainwater? Ph testers are pretty cheap. I think i'll get s new Ph tester and start testing rainwater myself. I remember all of the "scares" about acid rain.

sal

This is exactly what I was thinking lol I'm like okay rain.. changes probably hourly. Maxamets composition is why. with .. I suppose I'll say both high W high Co is.. why it does really well with relatively pure water(rain water) but the second that you start playing with the ionic contents or pH or anything. It'll corrode just like anything else. I'm assuming it was actually designed chemically speaking intentionally for coolant. I'd do that.

[VeraX_Knives]

Just 2 empty 5 gallon buckets left out in the rain Sal. I was doing some stonework in the backyard at that time, so once I had a rainy day I had something to look forward to. We have 2 of those pH digital testers at work. And I edc a bottle of pH strips when I'm out in the field. Most pool chemical stores offer free pH testing by me. Bcuz Chlorine becomes effective in pool water around a 7.2 to 7.6 if I remember right.

I'm all about the strips but moreso you're looking at tds total dissolved solids. That's Maxamets... Achilles heel chemistry wise. And I'm staying on the stage here. Looking left or right but eh. Ya right? Been there done that. Left? Sh*t she's.. hooot as sheh! *Thinks* eh what's going to be different tomorrow Ya sure I got time on halides.

And I'm only 33

I've been very curious what astatine would do in a metalloid. This has been my.. own personal thing for years lmao. That one element.

[Steeltoez83]

It was either rainwater or drano and I went with rainwater. If or when I choose to use the drano to study its effects on steels I'd reach out to them first to see where in line they are in process efficiency. Lean 6 sigma is 3.4 deviations per 1 million opportunities. And I'd like to hear they hit atleast a 3 or a 4. I could make a solution with the chemicals at work but the spirit of my testing is for accessibility to replicate testing by anyone willing to Plus I can also dispose of hazardous materials once I'm done testing at my current job.

[sal]

Sal, I hope that we got our misunderstandings corrected and that you had a great Easter, same to everyone else here. I'm just going to try to stick with explaining science to people who have questions and try not to be uhh. Dialectical.
Jas

Hi Jas,

I should probably warn you that some of us believe (me included) that "Science" is not always accurate or can be trusted. Time and new knowledge has changed much of science, just in my lifetime. (eg; numbers of chromosomes, what killed the dinosaurs, etc.). Also, many that portray "science" are often wrong, or downright lie (scientists, politicians & news media) about results in order to manipulate.

This makes "proving" science as an argument, challenging. So here, in my opinion, we are dealing with opinion. I hope that doesn't frustrate you? Many here like to prove things for themselves. Youtube reviewers are an example. Many of us have a problem with irrational authority.

Also I have no problem with the "dialectic". Socrates is one of my mentors.

sal

[VeraX_Knives]

Sal, I hope that we got our misunderstandings corrected and that you had a great Easter, same to everyone else here. I'm just going to try to stick with explaining science to people who have questions and try not to be uhh. Dialectical.
Jas

Hi Jas,

I should probably warn you that some of us believe (me included) that "Science" is not always accurate or can be trusted. Time and new knowledge has changed much of science, just in my lifetime. (eg; numbers of chromosomes, what killed the dinosaurs, etc.). Also, many that portray "science" are often wrong, or downright lie (scientists, politicians & news media) about results in order to manipulate.

This makes "proving" science as an argument, challenging. So here, in my opinion, we are dealing with opinion. I hope that doesn't frustrate you? Many here like to prove things for themselves. Youtube reviewers are an example. Many of us have a problem with irrational authority.

Also I have no problem with the "dialectic". Socrates is one of my mentors.

sal

Oh Christ Mike was right. ROFL. I can't honestly say that I disagree with you on a single thing there. That's kinda exactly my point and I should probably have clarified that one a little bit better, but I have this issue where I expect people who. Don't know me to.. know me or at times I'll even expect people to know what I do or think. Yes I'm well aware how insane that sounds but it's true hah. I literally just sent @Steeltoez83 a PM about this basically almost quoting you exactly based on the inherent problems with "how" we do "science" and why it's entirely useless - IMO by the inherent lack of.. actually including psychological and sociological biases into the said "hypothesis" and "conclusion" - but I wasn't around in the late 14-1500s so nobody really asked me.

Not many people know this about me but I actually still live with my grandparents (92 and 83) and take care of them. It's not necessarily easy but I can surely say that my life is compared to theirs...a joke in difficulty levels which keeps me from floating too high. Got the necessary support system, my mother lives a few houses down. Well I guess technically we switch but, my pap worked at IBM, was in Korea USAF 51-54, grandmother worked at a local bakery so. I suppose typical middle/upper middle class type 1970s household. Showing them what's on the news these days is .. quite literally a game that I play with them. (what's the next thing take your guess and win a prize.. sad but correct lol) So I probably have.. as much as yes I am 33 and I did grow up in the millennial era.. I'm not trying to discount that. I believe personally that I got a .. decent start from my family and whatnot but yeah I'm actually rather grounded in real life for being as young as I am.. my wife's 38. Mother's 64. Dad. Ya I'll leave that discussion out of the forums lmao . But I obviously have a very high amount of respect for you and I've never even met you. Granted, I probably won't say everything over this that I should but I really wasn't lying when I said that.. the company that you created is honestly what got me interested in.. using things I was learning for reasons I didn't know at the time and focusing that towards kitchen knives. I'm being 110% honest with you, while it may not be as profitable as.. I could make it or developing for videogame anti cheats, I can firmly say that it has allowed me to continue to do that. Well, balance both to a point that I needed and had nothing to fill it with until this stuff. The internet I grew up with just.. likewise man it doesn't exist. I mean ya it exists surely, it's just entirely different and I honestly despise it with every fiber of my soul for some reason. I guess cause I was there in the beginning when it was.. used as an information tool not. A marketing sociological.. nightmare?. Best one I can think up right now ha.

But ya definitely not a problem whatsoever I couldn't have honestly really said what I think better than you did. I wish I had the talent for speaking/communicating which I do in real life but it just.. it really does not come out like I ever intend it to over text and the internet. Which, is probably honestly directly related to how my brain works unfortunately. Just be glad I get to read this before actually sending it cause the number one.. negative about me in my personal opinion is that I'm still 33 and got that "oh so you wanna throw down" type.. I'm a man and I got testosterone lmao I can't say that's my worst quality my worst quality is how I speak. I cuss like a sailor, it's something that I personally would probably blame the internet for with.. me basically literally growing up on it. I know it's learned behavior but God is it hard to actually change. It's not like an addiction it's much worse. Did I grow up with.. vulgarity all around me well sure. Work in progress as anything is just im not making the progress I want to there. I didn't marry a psychotherapist for no reason! Hahahahahahaha

The hilarious part is it usually.. works backwards lmao. I started a dating advice website when I was 13 so I learned "people" much younger than anyone who I have honestly ever met lol.

-Jason

[VeraX_Knives]

I forgot to say that, if I ever have.. mentioned what I have about honestly anyone? Albeit I think we all know what I'm referring to specifically, that would definitely be the one area where me and Larrin are different, think differently. Quite literally as I would type ANYTHING here, graduate school related or simple 2 + 2, cause I can actually make that equal 5 in mathematics*. (I'm assuming you all know I'm talking geometry there)

The way that my very odd brain works?

Jeez this is honestly hard to explain but let me do my best here. So I always.. say. When Mike commented on mpl-1, I thought that it was a 46% carbide volume alloy but I honestly wasn't sure until I saw that little post it note that I had made. I posted that it was 46% before I found that. I believe that I said that I wasn't positive or something similar to that, if I recall correctly, but I'm not like. When I type those "if I recall correctly" deals, I'm dead *** serious about it. I have a partially eidetic memory which does help a LOT with numbers and pronunciation interestingly enough with other languages. I can make my way through Spanish French Italian or Pashtunwali even, not Dhari sorry. Going Germanic just ends whatever is.. well I was going to say the limits of my brain but I'm not sure if that's how I should word that. It's not. It's the limits of my.. interest in learning it I suppose would be probably a better wording and more realistic description. When I asked you for a job lmao, which for the record wasn't entirely a joke. I mean obviously I knew that you're way done with the day to day stuff that I would be sick of. 5 weeks in lmao. But my more... Realistic reason for asking such a thing is that I have been.. in the search for a metal fab shop that.. is not in the middle of nowhere. Basically in an industrial developmental area with a bunch of businesses that all know one another. I'm obviously looking at pre-existing structures, but because of real estate market it doesn't rule out a new slab build site. This would be me, Mike, and a few people from bladeforums that I.. I'm not honestly sure if they want me mentioning names so I'm going to hold off on that but. It's a multipurpose business plan. Not just knives, engines (for my inner car nerd) where I have people trying to cryogenically treat already nitrided.. jis 4340 with a BS in metallurgical engineering. I literally got in an argument with this one guy (not some idiot either) who did not believe me. People just do not understand steel let alone freaking aluminum alloys which I argue are more simplistic. Guys got more engine experience than I ever would or could dream of. He owns a speed shop and is on YouTube, is honestly a really cool guy and everything but these are the.. 'top of the line' speed shops in the USA and they're actively doing this stuff without even knowing what it really is. So while being a metal fab shop, basically just leaning into what we currently understand as 'science' but mostly the equipment to make the more educated guesses and guidance. I won't make that mistake again lol, I do intend to mean that when I type "science" but I totally understand that it doesn't always come out like that and yeah I spend a lot of time on theoreticals. Unfortunately if I'm being honest? I'm the kind of guy who you just need to teach once. Then next. Lol. I learn something new daily or try to. Today was that to reach space, the vehicle must travel at 7 miles a second. At first I was overthinking it and was like uhm. You sure? Lol I'm thinking about the esoterics gases vacuums Armstrong line yada yada. Then I talk to the wife. 10 seconds. Fixed.

I pick.. things up pretty quickly I've been told although I could argue that I've also spent literally 5 hours trying to figure out why it cost more to go up a ring size than down one.. yes I entirely over thought it and did not include the cost of the material itself I use that example often to describe how my brain works because it's A: Entirely true and B: pretty hilarious if I have to admit that myself.

Mike is currently in the hospital with an infection from spinal stenosis surgery but is fine FYI. He asked me to post that and I honestly forgot to, which is why I started this post that went into an entirely different subject matter lol. Again, my brain. I'll be apologizing for it until the day I die, but there's some things I'm not bad at. Math not being one of those. Math to me has become more of.. being a computer program or my gut/head combination. of all the physics stuff I learned? I honestly probably only remember about 1/10th of it. I'm literally the guy that walks around saying that a sheet of paper is utterly useless don't waste your money. But then again at the same time, we live in a world where you almost have to have some sheet of paper to even be considered for jobs. I've interviewed with cartech latrobe and I can first hand say that I watched people more qualified from my perspective than me get.. put to the back of the line. So kids - go to school for a very basic degree just until you know what you want to do is exactly what I tell my wife's kids but I'm not necessarily an expert there. It's worth it in certain situations to go higher than an undergrad but. I'd say it's very situational dependant especially with how fast the world is changing.

Ah. I got it finally. You wanna understand me? Take a 22 year old in 2013-14, stick em in a c. 2000-2005 era cave until now. And you got me. So the angry caveman has slept too long and is just kinda like. I went to take a nap and.... Whaddya know! Dubya tee eff man. Different new world. I left the brave out intentionally hah. Seriously tell me that you disagree there. On the whole obviously, I dislike the majority of it but I know enough about history that it doesn't necessarily concern me and sure I could say expected it. With what I know about psychology sociology philosophy etc. Human beings do not deal with change instinctually and I doubt any of us are Jesus Christ incarnate and just.. are suddenly going to become an alien although the biopharmaceutical lobby... That's a real good question to probably ask

Jas