My on going salt steel comparison journal

[Wartstein]

...was a real surprise since I'd gathered the H2 was an upgraded alloy from the old H1 alloy....

Hey Chinstrap, now that are cool reports of really putting (Salt..) knives to use!

/ As for H2 vs H1:

- As far as I know H2 is not an "upgrade", but Spyderco had to switch to H2 since the original H1 is not available anymore or something like that
- H2 should not be a "downgrade" too by any means though, but from all I read perform pretty similar to H1!

Not in my use, but from what others said:

- Sometimes the surfaces of "Salt" steel blades (H1, H2, LC200N, MC) are "contaminated" with other steels from production, and it is actually that "layer" of residual NON Salt steel that corrodes, NOT the Salt steel beneath itself.
So if you remove that "residual steel layer - rust" - the blade then should not rust anymore,

[Windward]

Thank you to all for your accurate descriptions of these great tools and your experience(s) with them.

My own experience with Spyderco has been limited to a rotating field of H1 Atlantic Salts, and until quite recently an addition to my quiver with the H2 variety.

For over 25 years I've worked as a commercial diver, and as such have had the pleasure in experiencing a myriad environments subsea; cold, hot, clear, black, and all manner of conditions and job requirements. My knives of choice are the Atlantic Salt and for cold work with limited hand dexterity a fixed blade of Victorianox steel. Ultimately, I prefer the Spyderco for safety and durability and on all dives I carry two knives; one is utility, the other emergency. Over the years, a few have been lost to the bottom and a number have been passed on as gifts.

Abuse of the knives comes with being alone on the bottom in a harsh environment.

My current setup is as pictured with the warrior 2010 H1 beside a 2013 H2.

This leads me to my point, and is clear in the photo; my last saturation job left the H2 with considerable corrosion. And the corrosion began immediately after my first dive out of the system. It was a real surprise since I'd gathered the H2 was an upgraded alloy from the old H1 alloy. The H1 has been all over the map with me and never corroded even during cutting, burning, welding jobs. Post job, when I get home, I maintain my small selection of personal dive tools with silicon spray and silicon grease, and when required the blades get professionally sharpened.

Has anyone experienced such corrosion on their H2 steel? My imagination places my particular blade amongst a flawed batch at the foundry, but my ignorance of production and manufacturing of these tools is surely misguided here.

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks.

Thanks for adding this all chinstrap. It was my hope that when i made this thread, others would chime in with experiences like yours. I haven't personally seen that on my h2, but ive only been using it since november and less underwater work. Ill be intetested to see how it hold up this spring.

[Naperville]

Back in the late 70's to early 80's I raced 16ft Hobie cats on Lake Michigan. I was in the water every day all Summer for a couple of years but I was not a diver.

Years later I started looking at knives and multitools and thought to myself how lucky I was not to die in a boating accident, because while I wore a life vest I never carried anything on me to get untangled. I raced the boats hard and pitch-poles were a fact of life...this is long before wave piercing hulls and they would pitch-pole if you sneezed at them.

If you know someone who sails or is on the water get them a Spyderco Salt knife and some wire snips.

[sal]

Hey Chinstrap,

Have you tried to clean it off? We ran into a situation many years ago where one of our salts, used by a pro diver in Hawaii, had what appeared to be rust, but turned out to be an organic that had coated part of the blade and looked like rust. The knife was constantly wet. Once the knife dried out, the "rust" came right off.

sal

[The Mastiff]

Sal is correct. I recall that was some stuff left over on the blade that flaked off when it finally was able to dry up.

It makes me think some of the things that could be causing the discoloration Chinstrap is seeing. It could be a bunch of things like steel/iron/rust powder that was wiped off from a rag or any of a number things . Even using a sharpening stone that had sharpened a different knife can contaminate the knife in question causing the above. I'd try getting a look at the blade after cleaning it off with a good paste . If you use Bar Keeps friend make sure to wash off the acid in the cleaner so it doesn't get into the lock/bearings etc.

something is causing that. It's not natural to those Salt series knives even when treated pretty harshly.

Joe

[Chinstrap]

Hi Mike (et al),

The saturation environment isnt necessarily any more corrosive than any other environment, however, I would say the consistant demand of the knife is perhaps more significant.

As Naperville provided, the sat duration is a month, dives are around 6 hours on bottom, and as many as 25 dives could be undertaken in one sat, so it is a chronic condition of salt water (usually in my case) 'therapy'.

Some of the worst conditions include a hydrocarbon rich bottom environment which could be bad for any number of materials, and I have seen a number of fairly resilient compounds break down; such as HD rubber drysuits, rubber bottom boots, plastics.

Important for me to correct here is that the Atlantic Salt H2 I now use was not purchased in 2013 as I wrote above, but in 2023; Hence my real disappointment in the alloy corrosion.

Also to note is that the majority of all my knives are purchased at a very well reputed retailer in Vancouver, Canada called 'Blades Canada' which is where I picked up my Atlantic Salt H2, and I am quite doubtful of counterfeit.

In the past, I have considered the Spyderco fixed blade assortment and the main reasons I balked at this is cost and size, but I am reconsidering now that the Atlantic Salt has almost doubled in price since I first started buying them and of course the corrosion issue.

[Chinstrap]

Hi Sal and Mastif,

Thanks for the advice. Since the blade was brand new, there was and still is no reason to sharpen the factory blade; it is still acting as my emergency knife on dives. In this case contamination from foreign sharpening tool debris can be ruled out, besides the fact that the old h2 has undergone precisely the same rigour and more since it exists on dives as my utility blade and was professionally sharpened directly before my last saturation and showed no signs of corrosion, fault or metal loss after dives and consequent maintenance and storage.
When I first discovered the corrosion following a couple dives in saturation, I removed what I could with a green 3M 'scotchbrite' abrasive pad, followed by a coating of DowCorning '111' marine silicone and to no avail as the corrosion returned.
I agree, very odd, which is why I have joined this forum, in search of discovering why the H2 material I have is faulty.

[The Mastiff]

It isn't faulty and it does have some contamination on it. I don't believe plain oxidation rust is possible with that steel. The grooves in the steel are like mountains and valleys to really fine particles and you can't get some off without a paste or wax scrubbing. Mostly that won't matter but you ran into something that it does matter with. The only guy I knew here that got a reaction from H1 put swimming pool shock treatment chlorine powder on the blade.

I can wash off a new knife with soap and water then dry it off with paper towels and will still find gunk on the clean cloth when I wax it. Remember some particles are ionized and will stick like magnets and they are too small to see with your eyes.

Before H1 was even introduced I had to go through this with Beta Titanium knives. Steel dust could cause even titanium to rust or at least look like rust and I have heard of pitting from introduced particles on even H1 which is why I suggested using a metal polish on the knife to see what is going on. If you use it look for tiny pits. In any event whatever is on it causing the rust needs cleaning off.

[sal]

Hi Chinstrap,

We'll gladly replace your knife so we can test it. Yours is the first complaint of its type.

Edit; I lied, In speaking with R&D, it seems like there was one other case similar. Might be contamination by the serration wheel? It's being investigated.

sal

[cabfrank]

Chinstrap, I hope you do send it in, because, like The Mastiff, I don't believe rust as you are describing is even possible with H2. It didn't happen with H1, for sure.

[Chinstrap]

This is good input, thank you The Mastiff, Sal, and cabfrank.

And it's good news here since my experience with my H2 steel will be ongoing locally for another few weeks; I'm currently on the jobsite in the Persian Gulf. In a couple weeks I'll be joining the saturation system, so for now I'll work at cleaning the blade as advised.

The Mastiff, I do appreciate your pointedness, "...It isn't faulty and it does have some contamination on it...", and confidence inspiring. I too find it hard to accept that the H2 could exibit what looks like iron oxide precipitation. As I've stated previously, the H1 Atlantic Salts I've owned during the past 15 years have been faultless, and very durable.

On board the vessel, I've checked with the galley and the only cleaning compounds for ss on offer are Vim, a liquid abrasive, and an oven cleaning spray. First, I'll try the Vim.

The last thing I want to do is send my knife in, besides which, I currently can not, and I need it. Sal, your description of grinding wheel residue sounds likely.

[Wartstein]

As I said in my first post here already: I also still believe it is "contamination" by residues of some other steel that must be going on here.

Hope you'll keep us posted about this, Chinstrap (and of course that it works out well for you).

[sal]

Hi Chinstrrap,

Thank you for your service. The chemical difference between H1 and H2 is very minimal. Just made by a different foundry. We just felt it would be honest to let our users know what was going on, hence the new name. Please try to continue to keep us in this loop. I think we all need to know what's going on?

sal

[Chinstrap]

As promised, the blade has been cleaned up with the mild household abrasive paste 'Vim', and a 3M 'Scotchbrite' pad. See the photo attached.

I believe the result is satisfactory, but only re-immersion on the jobsite will be proof of case.

When in the sat system a couple of months ago, and on discovery of what I'll now term as discolouration, I cleaned the H2 blade with a Scotchbrite pad only to find a recurrance of the discolouration on a following dive.

Thankyou also Wartstein for your observations. And I'll be sure to update again once a few lockouts in the saturation system have been completed.

[Chinstrap]

For what it's worth, an image of the H2 blade where the contamination was the most significant. On a closer inspection with my camera, it doesn't appear as though there is any pitting.

[Kels73]

For what it's worth, an image of the H2 blade where the contamination was the most significant. On a closer inspection with my camera, it doesn't appear as though there is any pitting.

Chinstrap, thanks for sharing your experience and the pictures. Your posts have me watching this thread with interest.

[The Mastiff]

Thanks for the updating Chinstrap. I'll be looking for results as time goes by. Hopefully things will work out the way they should. That last picture is a good one and thanks for including it.

If you have any auto type paste wax try giving it a coating. Even a standard candle can do wonders. I've found the wax micro polishes the surface as well as just makes it look good. The real benefit is also the sealing of the steels surface which prevents oxidation. I initially started that with blued firearms after having some nicely blued old rifles surfaces damaged from sweat on humid summer days at the range here in july and august. I then began waxing carbon and tool steel knives and now do all my knives when i first get them unpacked as a way to clean and passivate the steels surface finish. Plus is of course the beautiful way it makes the blades look. :)

If you look at the serration image you posted you can see that even after cleaning it as well as you did you can see a remainder of something deep in the valleys of the steel . If that is the stuff that was rusting it will be enough to start rusting again. For me, I don't have time to polish to a mirror luster all my knives so I just seal them to be safe. A good treatment with something like "Tuf-Cloth" could work pretty well too so next time you come in somewhere you can look around or send away for something similar to that to help make your life easier maintenance and time wise. I'm pretty sure you have more important things on your mind to spend your time on. "Rennisance wax" is my preferred wax for a lot of nice things.

If you end up not being able to get some of the stuff we are talking about let me know. It wouldn't be fast but I could help.

Joe

[cjk]

Your write up on H1 Serrated edge has me pushing for a serrated Stretch XL.

Me too!

[dullmaker]

Chinstrap, great thread. I’ll be watching for the updates. Keep safe.
Bruce

[Cl1ff]

This is one of the more interesting threads that has graced the forum recently!

In the case of contamination, I think it’s likely the corrosion will continue to persist and proliferate, without a supremely thorough surface cleaning/treatement.

I was speculative, as Sal has commented, regarding the possibility it had something to do with the wheel that ground the serrations. Seemingly, the corrosion was generally concentrated around and perhaps spreading outwardly from them.
If that close up picture of the serrations shows the most affected area, then it is consistent with such a hypothesis.

It could be that a wheel which was grinding VG10 Spyderco Rescues was somehow then used on the H2 Atlantic Salts?

I hope that Chinstrap’s work goes well.