Seki City back lock quality in 2022?

[Wartstein]

Every Spyderco lockback I've owned has had some degree of vertical play. ....

You really need to try a Chaparral...
Though I guess my maybe most wished-for Spydie, the "Chap XL" would have to come to live first in order to offer a size that is to your liking.

[ladybug93]

all of my triad lock knives are very solid with no play whatsoever.

my seki backlocks do have a little bit of movement and my native salt has some weird interaction between the blade and lock that allow it to click up and down a miniscule amount, but not really have play.

although spyderco backlocks are plenty strong and sturdy enough, i really don't prefer the lock outside of the salt series. for salts, i enjoy the simplicity and ease of use, even when wet, with gloves, and with either hand. i wouldn't mind a triad lock designed for those scenarios, but it doesn't exist and the spyderco lock is adequate.

i'm curious what issues the triad lock has given people. i know it's slightly more difficult to disengage, but the extra strength and stability are worth that trade for me. the triad lock is the only lock that makes a folder feel like a fixed blade, in my experience. although, to be fair, most of the triad lock blades i have are a bit thicker than the other knives i use, so that might be part of that equation as well.

[Josh Crutchley]

Does quality of back lock in Japanese Spyderco improved? Around 2008-2010, I bought Police SS and Endura 4 FRN, both of them got very disappointing vertical blade play very quickly, without even abusing it. Some guys who purchased Endura at the same time, had the same problem. So how is this these days?

I heard rumors that before 2000 quality of Spyderco with this lock was much better?

The only Seki City lock back I have is the Rockjumper and the lockup is rock solid.

[DerRock]

I really liked the back lock on the RockJumper. It seems to me that it works a little differently, and it's not just the lack of a David Boye dent.

[wrdwrght]

Midlocks on my recent Sekis (K390 Endela, K390 Stretch2, RockJumper) seem way more precise than my earlier ones. CQI?

[kennethsime]

I love my Seki knives. I still think they represent somme of the highest-value folding knives on the market - especially the K390s. I agree with Sal that they do seem to be getting better and better, as well.

I think this really just comes down to what you're looking for in a knife.

If you want a similar knife to the Endura which offers a rock-solid lockup, you can pick up a Cold Steel Recon for about the same price. You will lose the round hole, you will lose the excellent fit & finish, you will lose the sweet action, you will lose the refined ergonomics, and your knife will shred your jeans because those G-10 handles feel like 80-grit sand paper. But sure, you'll lose the lock rock.

I used to sell both of these knives side by side in a retail store. Generally, folks who wanted a tacticool knife would pickup the Recon, and everyone else picked up an Endura or a Griptilian.

[ladybug93]

just because cold steel has ridiculous marketing that appeals to a specific type of crowd doesn't mean that their product is lesser quality. just to call it tacticool is pretty dismissive. it's an objectively stronger design than the endura. that doesn't make it better. it makes it better suited for certain tasks, even if they are basically equally qualified for typical edc tasks. i'd say the same about the endura being a better slicer. that means it's better at certain things, but doesn't make it an objectively better tool.

[Matus]

Amen to that. Everybody should try the CS Lawman.

[vivi]

all of my triad lock knives are very solid with no play whatsoever.

my seki backlocks do have a little bit of movement and my native salt has some weird interaction between the blade and lock that allow it to click up and down a miniscule amount, but not really have play.

although spyderco backlocks are plenty strong and sturdy enough, i really don't prefer the lock outside of the salt series. for salts, i enjoy the simplicity and ease of use, even when wet, with gloves, and with either hand. i wouldn't mind a triad lock designed for those scenarios, but it doesn't exist and the spyderco lock is adequate.

i'm curious what issues the triad lock has given people. i know it's slightly more difficult to disengage, but the extra strength and stability are worth that trade for me. the triad lock is the only lock that makes a folder feel like a fixed blade, in my experience. although, to be fair, most of the triad lock blades i have are a bit thicker than the other knives i use, so that might be part of that equation as well.

I've always been confused by the negative view most here have on the tri-ad lock. it works great for me, even closing one handed.

[VooDooChild]

all of my triad lock knives are very solid with no play whatsoever.

my seki backlocks do have a little bit of movement and my native salt has some weird interaction between the blade and lock that allow it to click up and down a miniscule amount, but not really have play.

although spyderco backlocks are plenty strong and sturdy enough, i really don't prefer the lock outside of the salt series. for salts, i enjoy the simplicity and ease of use, even when wet, with gloves, and with either hand. i wouldn't mind a triad lock designed for those scenarios, but it doesn't exist and the spyderco lock is adequate.

i'm curious what issues the triad lock has given people. i know it's slightly more difficult to disengage, but the extra strength and stability are worth that trade for me. the triad lock is the only lock that makes a folder feel like a fixed blade, in my experience. although, to be fair, most of the triad lock blades i have are a bit thicker than the other knives i use, so that might be part of that equation as well.

I've always been confused by the negative view most here have on the tri-ad lock. it works great for me, even closing one handed.

Its still certainly not as easy to disengage. If the issue is just lock rock, then Im fine with triad or internal stop pins or whatever.

[ladybug93]

all of my triad lock knives are very solid with no play whatsoever.

my seki backlocks do have a little bit of movement and my native salt has some weird interaction between the blade and lock that allow it to click up and down a miniscule amount, but not really have play.

although spyderco backlocks are plenty strong and sturdy enough, i really don't prefer the lock outside of the salt series. for salts, i enjoy the simplicity and ease of use, even when wet, with gloves, and with either hand. i wouldn't mind a triad lock designed for those scenarios, but it doesn't exist and the spyderco lock is adequate.

i'm curious what issues the triad lock has given people. i know it's slightly more difficult to disengage, but the extra strength and stability are worth that trade for me. the triad lock is the only lock that makes a folder feel like a fixed blade, in my experience. although, to be fair, most of the triad lock blades i have are a bit thicker than the other knives i use, so that might be part of that equation as well.

I've always been confused by the negative view most here have on the tri-ad lock. it works great for me, even closing one handed.

i think the people around here appreciate the more elegant design language of spyderco to the more harsh and hard use design language of cold steel. i'm happy with either. if i want something to beat on, i grab a cold steel because of a stronger lock and better value. if i want something fancier and more refined, but still cool ugly, i grab a spyderco.

[Treading Rightly]

Long time lurker here. I’ve carried a knife of some sort for about 35 years. 12 of those years were in the military and many of the rest up to now in law enforcement. Add in general handyman/camping/dad-work throughout. I’m of the opinion that way too much obsession is put into the subject of lock strength and blade play. Sure I’d rather a knife with no movement in the blade, and I have fixed blades for that.

If a knife has moving parts, those parts can introduce some moment between the parts. One of my nicest knives, a CRK Umnumzaan even has some flex due to the lock bar moving a little, and that’s normal for that design.

That said, of all the knives I’ve owned and carried for actual duty work, a Spyderco with a mid-lock has been of the majority. It’s the Glock of knives. You may think it’s ugly or you may think it’s awesome.

One thing that’s undeniable is it’s easy to use with either hand and slim and light enough to carry in any environment. For the Dragonfly, Delica, Endella, Endura, Stretch, Salt and Police, (the Seki mainstays) there are a multitude of blade steels, handle Colors, and sizes to choose from to meet your wants and needs. And the best thing is these generally all come in under $200 even at the highest speed steel.

As far as the lock play? Think about this. On the handle, where does the lock pivot? Look at the pivot areas. There’s the blade pivot and the lock bar pivot. If you rock the blade up and down, there WILL be movement at the blade
pivot and lock pivot. Even if it feels solid there will be a tiny amount of movement. Unless Spyderco starts to face each surface and hand fit them like they are building space station parts, there will be varying degrees of this movement depending on how the surfaces mate. And for real use, tolerances that are too tight bring other issues.

One thing you won’t see is a weaker or dangerous lock because of it. I’ve had a Spyderco serve me since the moulded-on clips of the original clipits and have never had a failure. This is in general EDC use as well as combat deployment and emergency use at accidents etc.

That said, the tool for the job. I’m not trying to pry open a car door with a Delica. That’s what a halligan tool is for (I’m actually in the market for a Spyderco Warrior Hawk to keep in my patrol bag). I carry a Native 5 Salt currently and I love it (not Seki I know). But the only reason I have ever bought another Spyderco was due to the personal want of a different color, blade steel, shape or size. Other than losing one I’ve never required a new one due to a breaking or failing lockup. A little play can be a good thing too. Some of the environments I’m working in can get nasty and really tight tolerances can introduce a whole other set of issues. Like not being able to disengage the lock…..

Anyway, first post, long rant, at the end of the day, I’m not a collector. I have a few knives that I enjoy playing with for the pure fact that knives are cool and variety is the spice of life. But if you see me on the side of a road dealing with someone in need, collecting evidence at a scene or (hopefully never) wielding a knife to defend myself, it’s a Spyderco with a mid lock.

And in case you’re wondering why I’d carry a FRN Spyderco mid lock when I have a CRK Umnumzaan, which is arguably the be-all-end-all tactical bla bla bla, or my XM-18 which is another mall ninja favourite? It’s simple. Put on gloves, make it rain, 15°, at night, and under stress. I can get the Spyderco open faster, the traction on the handle is better, the lock is much easier to close, and if I do break it, I get to replace it with a very easy to find new one, and maybe I’ll change colors and blade steels for fun. Lastly, I’m not a fan of the compression lock, just in case you’re thinking I’m just a fanboy. It may be stronger, but in those same situations, I need to be able to hand my knife to anyone I’m working with (here close this for me while I hold “whatever is in my hands”). Most non-knife people can figure out how to “push the button on the back” when I tell them. I don’t have to explain how to move a lever or a frame lock, or an axis lock etc.

If you’ve made it this far in my encyclopedia post, thanks for hanging on. If you disagree with me, that’s cool too. Just one man’s perspective. I’m no better than you fine folks.

[BugBite84]

I own probably 10 Spyderco seki lock backs from around 2016 to now and they are all solid even after a good amount of use but I only buy Spyderco lock backs in person after I handle and inspect them because I have ordered a few before that arrived with bad up and down play and that bugs me bad especially being a new knife, when I sent one to warranty for bad up and down play it came back saying it was in spec and had the the same play so that’s another reason I only buy them in person, my golden lock backs are all very solid, I have a few enduras I have used pretty hard for a few years and they have held up great and only developed minor play which is totally normal and still very useable for every day tasks.

[Wartstein]

Long time lurker here. I’ve carried a knife of some sort for about 35 years. 12 of those years were in the military and many of the rest up to now in law enforcement. Add in general handyman/camping/dad-work throughout. I’m of the opinion that way too much obsession is put into the subject of lock strength and blade play........
.....
That said, of all the knives I’ve owned and carried for actual duty work, a Spyderco with a mid-lock has been of the majority. It’s the Glock of knives. You may think it’s ugly or you may think it’s awesome.
.....
One thing you won’t see is a weaker or dangerous lock because of it. I’ve had a Spyderco serve me since the moulded-on clips of the original clipits and have never had a failure. This is in general EDC use as well as combat deployment and emergency use at accidents etc.
....
Put on gloves, make it rain, 15°, at night, and under stress. I can get the Spyderco open faster, the traction on the handle is better, the lock is much easier to close, and if I do break it, I get to replace it with a very easy to find new one, and maybe I’ll change colors and blade steels for fun. Lastly, I’m not a fan of the compression lock, just in case you’re thinking I’m just a fanboy. It may be stronger,.....

Welcome to the forum!

No idea how your very cool first post here could be missed for so long (since you wrote it back in February) by everyone, including myself! Some good points!!

Seems like you really have a great, down-to-earth approach to knives, love them and first and foremost actually really uses and needs them in various scenarios.
I may quote you: "Put on gloves, make it rain, 15°, at night, and under stress" - this is exactly where a goods FRN lockback Spydie shines, and is imho the best and safest choice ("safety" meant: For the fingers, concerning accidently dropping the knive, ease of operation (in the last area a good linerlock could be even better, especially when one is wearing those gloves).

I am with you, an FRN Spyderco backlock is just great as a real workhorse for all conditions, for the reasons you mentioned and more.
As for "comp.lock being stronger than backlock": I don´t think so. I can for example recall Eric Glesser stating several times, that he likes to have a backlock on really long folders, particularly for its strength.
Practically speaking though I think it does not matter if comp. - or backlock is technically stronger. Both more than strong enough, but in your "gloves, rain, night, under stress" scenario the backlock just works better and safer imo.

[Bolster]

Every Spyderco lockback I've owned has had some degree of vertical play. I've owned examples from the 90's up to made within the past few months. Models from Japan, China, USA etc...

Including Chaparral?

[kojaq48]

Hi,

I would like to know from experienced Spyderco Seki City K390 owners whether what I show in the photos is standard in these knives? And if not and I'm just unlucky, does that disqualify the knife?

I bought a Spyderco Endura 4 K390, and I just didn't like what I saw and sent the knife back for a replacement.

The second copy I received after the exchange has a similar chip in the same place, but to a lesser extent.

In Europe, this knife costs $210 and that's what I paid for it. Both knives were new and the photos were taken right out of the box as soon as I noticed them.

What do you think?
Let me know

[Michael Janich]

Dear kojaq48:

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum.

Could you please tell us what portion of the blade has the chips? I see them clearly in the photos, but I'm not positive where they are on the blade.

Thank you.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Giygas]

That's the part of the tang the lock tab catches, correct?

I just checked my k390 p4lw and SE k390 endura.

The p4lw has a single chip similar to your second pic, but it's much smaller. It's been a heavy user, and lived a rough life so I definitely can't say it was there from the factory.

Nothing on my Endura.

[vivi]

I don't feel like this is anywhere close to an objective comparison.

If you want a similar knife to the Endura which offers a rock-solid lockup, you can pick up a Cold Steel Recon for about the same price. You will lose the round hole

True. Recons have thumbstuds. They also have G10 & S35VN for the about the same price as FRN & VG10.

you will lose the excellent fit & finish

My GSM era Recon 1 shows fit and finish comparable, if not superior to my Pacific Salts. I don't own an Endura to compare to, but the ones I have owned in the past showed more vertical play when new than my Recons.

you will lose the sweet action

My Recon 1 is smoother and has less lock stick than my 4V Manix XL. It's hit or miss here for me. Some of my Cold Steels are very smooth, like my SR1 Lite and 4 Max Scout. Some of my spydies are very smooth. I've also had examples from each company not as smooth as expected.

you will lose the refined ergonomics

Ergonomics can be subjective but I consider the ergos on a Recon 1 to be on par with any other folder I own, and I 100% prefer its ergonomics to any generation of Enduras. It's not the most ergonomic knife ever to me, but it's up there.

I've long lauded the C95 / Manix XL for their ergonomics, and I think the Recon 1 does certain things better. The rear end of the handle is more open to accomodate larger hands better, the thumb ramp has better placement for my grip, and the index choil being built into the handle is a much better design than removing 1/2 - 3/4" of blade IMO.

your knife will shred your jeans because those G-10 handles feel like 80-grit sand paper.

They haven't used the coarse texture G10 (Same style G10 on Sirens and Yojumbos that no one here seems to mind) in years. They switched over to a more standard texture something like 6 or 7 years ago I believe. The texture on mine is comparable to a stock Military or Native Chief in G10.

But sure, you'll lose the lock rock.

....and get G10/S35VN for under $100, get a nice edge to handle ratio, a (for some, including me) a more ergonomic handle than an Endura, a lower profile clip that affects ergos less, no liners to rust, etc.

I love Spydercos knives but I don't feel like you made a fair comparison.

edit: lol, just noticed how old this post was of yours....

[dsvirsky]

Checked my Seki K390 lockbacks. The P4lw has a small chip like in your second picture, the leafjumper and dragonfly do not. Personally, I don't see it as likely to become a functional issue and would not worry about it.