Upping the price.

[Wartstein]

Hi Warstein,

I'll get to that story in your other thread about the back-lock, handle forward, Polestar and Alcyone.

sal

Thanks Sal, really appreciate that !!

[sal]

Costs of manufacturing is going up almost everywhere, and it's going up faster than wages. A challenging problem to solve, especially if in your manufacturing, you are trying also to keep up with wages. Manufacturing in China seems like a viable solution, but long term I don't think it's a good idea.

Assuming we're being fair in trade, we can raise the price or lower the quality. We believe that if you've got a good product that's been taking care of the company, then to lower the quality of that good product becomes a race to the bottom, so we try to keep the quality up and raise the price.

Gail and I have watched this scenario in many industries. It's a challenge for sure. We are thankful that we can get honest fed-back communication with our "family" (you) to try to come up with the best solutions.

If the price becomes too high, the one obvious solution is to simply purchase less, of the same quality. We always listen to all comments from you, both good and bad.

sal

[TkoK83Spy]

Easy to remedy knife price hikes - simply buy less.

Restrict yourself to a couple of knives per year - consider ones that you “really” want instead of consuming every new release that is put in front of you like some kind of a mindless rampant, knife-eating Pac-Man.

Quality over quantity brothers.

Don't you dare speak logically around here! It's like speaking another language to a lot of folks

[WilliamMunny]

Sal,

That is great to hear, I buy Spyderco because I know it is a quality knife. If I wanted a cheap knife, I would not buy a Spyderco so don't lower the quality to make them cheaper, plenty of Chinese companies doing that.

Talking real world, a $150-$200 Spyderco can last a lifetime for many people. Pretty cheap when you think about it that way.

[electro-static]

Easy to remedy knife price hikes - simply buy less.

Restrict yourself to a couple of knives per year - consider ones that you “really” want instead of consuming every new release that is put in front of you like some kind of a mindless rampant, knife-eating Pac-Man.

Quality over quantity brothers.

Honestly I just do this and wait for sales. I’d rather pay more than see a decrease in quality, or see production moved to china. I’d rather pay a bit more than have to wonder about the quality of my knife.

If there is a sprint or exclusive I really want I’ll still buy it as fast as possible but for regular production this is what I do.

[Bloody Fingerz]

I was just looking at a dlc military 2 and the price was $225. Now it’s $250! I have about 50 Spyderco knives and have been collecting for 25 years. The prices have went up multiple times in the last 5 years. I understand inflation and what companies do to stay afloat but it is getting a bit carried away…. I look at what I paid for a lot of my favorites over years. I see $100 knives now going for $180/200. I’m a Spyderco fanboy but I see some of what other companies are offering and the quality they are now achieving. Spyderco imo, will need to do something in the near future to hold the customers they have…

[WilliamMunny]

I was just looking at a dlc military 2 and the price was $225. Now it’s $250! I have about 50 Spyderco knives and have been collecting for 25 years. The prices have went up multiple times in the last 5 years. I understand inflation and what companies do to stay afloat but it is getting a bit carried away…. I look at what I paid for a lot of my favorites over years. I see $100 knives now going for $180/200. I’m a Spyderco fanboy but I see some of what other companies are offering and the quality they are now achieving. Spyderco imo, will need to do something in the near future to hold the customers they have…

It would be an issue if everything also did not go up the same over the same period. In three years my dog food went from $60 to $100 a bag.

I do agree there is a too expensive point but the market will dictate that. As Sal said, if something does not sell well at the price point they need to sell it at then they discontinue it.

[sal]

I’m a Spyderco fanboy but I see some of what other companies are offering and the quality they are now achieving.

Hi Bloody Fingerz,

Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal

[Synov]

I’m a Spyderco fanboy but I see some of what other companies are offering and the quality they are now achieving.

Hi Bloody Fingerz,

Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal

[zhyla]

Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal

This question wasn't directed at me but I will comment. Here is one of my purchases this week, a Vosteed Nightshade. This is a $70 knife with Nitro-V steel, liner lock, bearings, skeletonized liners, and micarta scales.




I'm sending it back because it's actually the wrong version (I ordered the thumbhole version). I don't care for the blackwash but otherwise this knife is really, really impressive. The edge is unbelievably sharp. 0.016" behind the edge. The rough micarta feels great. The scales are contoured, not just flat slabs. The clip is unexciting but works well. Ergos are good. Action is amazing.

The thumbstud version is IMO dangerous. The blade flies out once you overcome the detente and your thumb can trail behind it. Is this why Spyderco doesn't do a lot of knives on bearings?

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about how Spyderco designs have some quality (soul, charisma) and the stuff we see from competitors don't. In general I agree with this intangible. But this knife has soul IMO. It's supposed to channel the famous Shilin Cutter knives from a certain part of China.

Anyway, look at that knife and think: this is what the Astute or Tenacious are up against.

[brj]

double tap

[brj]

If the price becomes too high, the one obvious solution is to simply purchase less, of the same quality.
sal

This ^. It's that simple. It really worked (for me), although for me it was not price but rather the aversion to the mega-choil that stopped dead most of my Spyderco purchases.

[kennbr34]

Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal

This question wasn't directed at me but I will comment. Here is one of my purchases this week, a Vosteed Nightshade. This is a $70 knife with Nitro-V steel, liner lock, bearings, skeletonized liners, and micarta scales.




I'm sending it back because it's actually the wrong version (I ordered the thumbhole version). I don't care for the blackwash but otherwise this knife is really, really impressive. The edge is unbelievably sharp. 0.016" behind the edge. The rough micarta feels great. The scales are contoured, not just flat slabs. The clip is unexciting but works well. Ergos are good. Action is amazing.

The thumbstud version is IMO dangerous. The blade flies out once you overcome the detente and your thumb can trail behind it. Is this why Spyderco doesn't do a lot of knives on bearings?

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about how Spyderco designs have some quality (soul, charisma) and the stuff we see from competitors don't. In general I agree with this intangible. But this knife has soul IMO. It's supposed to channel the famous Shilin Cutter knives from a certain part of China.

Anyway, look at that knife and think: this is what the Astute or Tenacious are up against.

The nightshade has been on my to-get list for a month or so now. It looks quite nice. Glad to hear that it weighs up to that in person.

I don't really have any other comments about the rest of this thread.

[Brummie]

Certainly becoming harder to justify buying Spyderco. I just bought these three Maxace products for the same price as a Lil Temp in VG10 and FRN.

[RamZar]

Certainly becoming harder to justify buying Spyderco. I just bought these three Maxace products for the same price as a Lil Temp in VG10 and FRN.

The Lil’ Temp with VG-10 & FRN for a dealer price of $189.00 is a good example of some of Spyderco’s absurd pricing no matter how you slice it.

[weeping minora]

Perhaps the main focus here is that folks want more quantity for their money, versus more quality, which would require more money to obtain the same amount of objects?

We all have our personal choices, but to somehow make Spyderco at fault because you don't see the value in buying 2 or 3 Spydercos, and you'd rather buy 5-10 other knives (or tools) for the same price, seems disingenuous as a way to argue that the product Spyderco offers isn't valuable to the market, per their asking price.

It seems as though some of the discussion here has gone from, it's all completely overpriced, to, certain pieces are priced just right. Ironically, the budget models are priced way too high, and the premium stuff, whilst priced very high as-is, is priced just right. The disparity here is from price-minded consumers, which I'm assuming are those who set their threshold of knife expenditure rather low (I'll say $50-100, for clarity of reference). Just because something is made of certain materials, doesn't mean that everyone can, or will, manufacture those same materials to the same or similar price point. This would mean that not everyone will manufacture to the same spec, or tolerances. Prices can and will increase for many reasons, that will not be seen by the eye alone. Understand that those who market products understand the value of perception as a marketable ploy.

For reference, I do believe and agree that a lot of prices have been high for the past number of years now, and have bought less overall, not merely bought down to satisfy an insatiable need of acquisition. Acquisition disorder seems to be a very real thing, anymore, which again, is marketable.

It seems that this isn't really a debate on pricing itself, but rather the debate of personally perceived value for the price you're paying, out of individual bias in comparison to other options available to the market within a certain price point, coupled with your overall preferences. There are (or rather can be) many more personal reasons to choose to, or not to, purchase a product besides its mere price point alone.

I will say, I do think Spyderco is trying to find ways to manufacture more efficiently, to bring some of the cost down. We saw that with the Military 2; however, as has been pointed out, it's like trying to plug holes on an already sinking ship (the rate of personal income/expenditure being unable to keep up with cost increase/inflation). It's a very thin line to walk and maneuver, and ultimately you will never be able to please everyone, whilst having to put food on the table for your own.

To skew the words of Warren Zevon, in order make more relatable to this particular topic: Enjoy every cut. It's probably more valuable to take a step back and to assess your purchases when you've come to a point of discontent, rather than to battle that discontent heads up. You might find value where you thought there was none. Just some food for thought.

[RamZar]

What used to be a threshold of $200 for a Spyderco knife in 2019 has now literally become $250 due to two MAP changes in 2020 and 2024 plus some big jumps in MSRP during the pandemic specially in 2022. Your $200 limit now buys you a noticeably less Spyderco knife than in December 2019.

[Jack48]

I’m a Spyderco fanboy but I see some of what other companies are offering and the quality they are now achieving.

Hi Bloody Fingerz,

Could you elaborate more on that? What are the other companies of which you speak and what are they doing?

sal

Except it’s not just Chinese brands. Ironically some US made knives give you the same or better materials at the same price compared to Spyderco’s Chinese made knives.

The Kershaw Leek and Blur in 14C28N can be found around the same price as the 8CR Tenacious and the rest of the line.

The Kershaw Blur in MagnaCut, Kershaw Dividend in MagnaCut, Hogue Deka in MagnaCut, Kershaw Launch 16 in M4, and others can be had for the same price or less as the M4 Tenacious. Many of them are actually $30 or so less.

Moving on to US made Spydercos-

As much as people make fun of Benchmade’s prices the Adamas in Cruwear is now only a few dollars more than the DLC Shaman in S30V, and it’s pretty easy to find sales on Benchmade. The Hogue Ritter RSK in MagnaCut is $200, the Cold Steel AD-10 in S35VN is $100-$140 depending on whether it’s on sale, Kershaw /ZT have various models that are much more competitively priced.

Cold Steel’s made in Taiwan knives in general are a great value and do a good job with the heat treat. The American Lawman and Code 4 are both well made 3.5” S35VN blades that go on sale for $60-$80 quite often. Compare that to most of the Taiwan made Spydercos or the PM2.

I really like the compression lock, it’s the reason I have the Spydercos I do. However it’s getting to the point where I’m paying a rather high premium for it, and that high price has me somewhat reluctant to actually use them for certain tasks.

When MagnaCut, M4, Cruwear, etc., are becoming widespread and at pretty affordable prices S30V just doesn’t really interest me, especially not at over $150.

I agree with the other comments that there’s no reason to even be using 8CR anymore. There are far too many $30-$50 knives out there in much better steels for me to even really consider a knife in 8CR. BD1N isn’t a very big upgrade and isn’t a very well known steel. If Chinese brands can make knives in 14C28N, N690, and 154CM for $30-$40 they should be able to make knives in the same steels for Spyderco that sell for $60-$80. That would be much more appealing than 8CR for $50.

[WilliamMunny]

It seems that this isn't really a debate on pricing itself, but rather the debate of personally perceived value for the price you're paying, out of individual bias in comparison to other options available to the market within a certain price point, coupled with your overall preferences. There are (or rather can be) many more personal reasons to choose to, or not to, purchase a product besides its mere price point alone.

I think this is a great point my wife thinks buying a $100+ knife is stupid, her $15 junk knife cuts just the same in her mind. As you said personally perceived value is what most of this conversation revolves around and the what Sal and Spyderco battle every day.

Example:
Dragonfly S30V is around $100 in store.
The new Manix 2 LW M4 from Blade HQ is $135 or so.

To me the Manix is a ton of knife for that price, but I am not so sure about the Dragonfly. This example of how I perceive the value of these knives, what I think they are worth, what I like better. It has nothing to do with what it actually cost to make these knives.

The issues for Spyderco becomes if as a whole the consumer perceives Spyderco knives are not worth the money they charge. Again, this personal value they put on the knife has nothing to do with actual cost. There are starting to be a lot of knife companies out there that produce a quality knife in a quality steel for under $100 to appeal to the masses. It make it very hard for Spyderco to find that price/quality balance to stay on top.

I like to think that Spyderco does their best to keep cost low for the quality they provide as its best for the customer and the company. If they don't, people will move on, buy knifes that give them the similar performance for less money and there will be no more Spyderco.

[RamZar]

Both Kershaw and Benchmade sell a lot of U.S. made autos while Spyderco does not. Something to consider.

I have two quality U.S. made folders with MagnaCut & Crossbar Lock at $142.50 and $159.95: Kershaw Bel Air (Aluminum) and Hogue Ritter Mini RSK (G-10). Spyderco has the Native5 MagnaCut with FRN for $162.00. I wonder how much a Native5 MagnaCut with G-10 would be (Native5 S30V & G-10 is currently $202.50)?