Sal, anything you´d like to share on the Golden made BACKLOCK Polestar? (Another "handle forward" knife?)

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

PS: Could we have another look at that red-handled Polestar?

Ask and you shall receive. I call it kinda maroon.

How much? I’m offering free tree work…for LIFE!!!…seriously that’s a stunning piece

[Wartstein]

Hey Gernot, if this helps. Not sure they could move it much without adjusting the lanyard tube or just losing it.
....

Thanks, Jeff!

Yes, seems like they could add just very little blade length - but as always I kind of wish they did with a Golden Polestar, even if it's just 1 or 2 mm (just my thing, really not immensly important, but I just like it when there is made good use of the space in the handle and the blade as long as possible).

And if the Polestar actually switched to a backlock, naturally they could not use the current blade anymore anyway, so perhaps in a blade-redesign lengthening it a tad is an option.
As said though, not the end of the world at all if not
In any case: The 3.5 limit would not be reached anyway (current blade: 3.3)

The somewhat similar Tenacious does a bit "better" in that regard (I think), see the (very poor, sorry) quick pic, and offers an a bit better closed length to cutting edge ratio generally

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Edit-just looked up Polestars…was under the impression they were discontinued or rare…bhq/kc had em for like $85? Am I hallucinating?
So scratch that offer Jeff…I’ll swing by one day and drop a dead dogwood or something however it’s still stunning

[cabfrank]

I'd be fine with the idea of eliminating the lanyard hole on some models, as necessary. I don't use them, but I know some people do.

[cabfrank]

Oh, and yes, the red handle looks great on that Polestar.

[JSumm]

Edit-just looked up Polestars…was under the impression they were discontinued or rare…bhq/kc had em for like $85? Am I hallucinating?
So scratch that offer Jeff…I’ll swing by one day and drop a dead dogwood or something however it’s still stunning

Wait, wait, wait, comeback....

Yes, they are considered maybe high for the value line, but a good deal overall. The new ones have BD1N as opposed to the older at BD1 plus a scale color change.

I believe BHQ and KC have the older version. National Knives has the new version.
https://www.nationalknives.com/spyderco ... heck-g-10/

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Edit-just looked up Polestars…was under the impression they were discontinued or rare…bhq/kc had em for like $85? Am I hallucinating?
So scratch that offer Jeff…I’ll swing by one day and drop a dead dogwood or something however it’s still stunning

Wait, wait, wait, comeback....

Yes, they are considered maybe high for the value line, but a good deal overall. The new ones have BD1N as opposed to the older at BD1 plus a scale color change.

I believe BHQ and KC have the older version. National Knives has the new version.
https://www.nationalknives.com/spyderco ... heck-g-10/

SOLD!!! And I’ll still come drop that dead dogwood

[Wartstein]

Hi Jeff,

On hold until the expansion is finished. That's a really nice looking Polestar.

We'll work up a design for the Alcyone with a handle forward lock-back.

Bolster, I'l work on that forward hook.

sal

Since I brought this up here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96234&start=180#p1772665, I now think I might as well resurrect the dedicated thread:

Now: Are the Golden made BACKLOCK Polestar and Alcyone "endangered" by their comp.lock versions (of which Sal said he´d have and carry prototypes)?

Have the plans switched from backlock to comp.lock?

To me personally this would be a sad thing - and this is not against the comp.lock ,but a "handle forward" BACKlock Spydie design is more unique, special and rare imo - actually there are only two, both Seki made and just one still in production (RockJumper resp. Leafjumper).

A Golden made, G10 handle forward backlock as a new version of the Polestar, just like the plans obviously were, would be so great to see and honestly I was really looking forward to it...

[Bolster]

Thanks Wartstein for starting this thread.

...Unfortunately, it's been out for a while and has not received the attention I think it deserves. When I have what I think is a good design that is not being well received, I seek to know why. Since the pattern, I feel is sound, there was the Walker Linerock, the G-10 color/pattern and the made in China were potential drawbacks.

The Golden made version with a mid-lock-back and a "Handle forward" design seemed like the answer. ...

Regarding drawbacks, Question 13 from the 2023 survey of 379 responses may be helpful:

[sal]

Hi Warstein,

We made handle forward lock-back prototypes of the Polestar 2 and Alcyone 2. I thought they were very nice and would work well if we could make them in Golden (when the expansion is complete and we can add the designs to the queue).

Eric thought that the current trend favored Compression locks and sales of Compression lock models are stronger than lock-backs (Golden made). This is because, while we have both locks down to very good quality and action, the lock-back design, which has a stronger self-close, than Compression Locks, make it a little harder to open due to the pressure of the lock on the tang.

Now we have both variations in prototypes and we've added a 4." blade version (Deep Space) in the Compression lock samples. (which can also be made as a lock-back).

We're not able to add models to the Golden factory yet, so we still have some time to make a decision. This is also on top of the original Polestar and Alcyone's made in China, Which is also good quality, but a Linerlock.

Time and money being no object, I would like to make both versions and see what the market prefers, but unfortunately both time and money have limitations, and it would also take other possible models and push them aside.

Hope that helps.

sal

[cabfrank]

Thanks for the insider's perspective. We love to hear it, and feel privileged to hear it. It would be incredible to make both and see the results. Many of us would ante up for both, for the cause. I wonder if there is any chance for a dealer exclusive to help fund both, or a way to crowd fund both, which would be a different thing for Spyderco. I don't know, just spit balling.

[JSumm]

It looks like Sal you were referencing sales of Lock-Backs (Golden Made) compared to Compression Locks. Emphasis on the Golden Made. I am not surprised that sales of the compression lock are higher than the lock-backs in Golden. I wonder if the harder to open feedback is more influenced by the combination of the lock-back designs out of Golden having a straight spine? Straight spine is nice in the hand and especially in the pocket, but it does not open as smoothly as compared to let's say the Delica Family with the thumb ramp. Opening arc being affected. That may play a larger role in that feedback.

[Wartstein]

Hi Warstein,

.....

Thank you Sal, I very much appreciate your reply and the insight!

Some (layman) thoughts:

"Sales of [Golden] comp.lock models are stronger than lock backs"

- Though I am just a backlock guy myself (but think the comp.lock is a great ingenious concept!), I could very well see that in a Spyderco the compression lock actually is more popular indeed
- But, that said: I also think is almost impossible to tell if a comp.lock model sells better actually because of the locktype..
It could also be that for example a PM2 has better sales than a Native Chief due to factors completely unrelated to the lock type, - potentially even despite the lock type (regardless which one).
- Of course compared to Eric and you I have no idea what I am talking about - but it seems to me, that just because the comp.lock Golden models sell better than the backlock Golden models does not necessarily mean that one LOCKTYPE is more popular than the other and the underlying reason for the better sales.

Comp.lock folders sell better cause backlock folders are a bit harder to open

- This is a plausible reasoning of course - but again, I think there is no good way of telling (aside from kind of a superwidespread survey) if it really is the reason or the main reason...

"Handle forward" speaks for the backlock Golden Polestar imo

- With comp.locks and especially linerlocks (and they have their similarities when it comes to what designs are possible) "handle forward" is a lot more common, not so unique and people expect that models can and do feature this (examples being Caribbean or Bodacious)
While a BACKLOCK handle forward Spydie is something pretty new, "fresh and exciting" and only done so far in two variants of a Seki model, but never any Golden one.
This could be a strong selling point for a (handle forward) BACKLOCK Golden Polestar...

Anyway, I am certainly biased - I think after the FRN Seki pioneer backlock handle forward models a G10 Golden version would be amazing - even more so with a 4 inch blade!!!

[ladybug93]

i'd strongly consider a golden-made 4" polestar style knife in either lock. i like the backlock because it's ambidextrous, but i prefer the comp lock because it's more of spyderco dna in a given design. either is fine though, and a 4", handle forward, leaf blade is very compelling. it would be great to see in something different than s30v, even if it's just s35vn or s45v, but s30v is fine too.

i've thought a lot about grabbing a raven or a polestar, but ultimately didn't because it's too similar to the manix in size and shape for me and i didn't think i'd carry it much. i've always liked the designs though.

[BornIn1500]

- With comp.locks and especially linerlocks (and they have their similarities when it comes to what designs are possible) "handle forward" is a lot more common, not so unique and people expect that models can and do feature this (examples being Caribbean or Bodacious)

But would a back lock Polestar be seen as unique? The differences between the Leaf Jumper and the possible back lock Polestar seem very minor. It would be almost the same knife, only made in a different place and different materials.

I don't know of a compression lock that similar to the Polestar.

[Wartstein]

- With comp.locks and especially linerlocks (and they have their similarities when it comes to what designs are possible) "handle forward" is a lot more common, not so unique and people expect that models can and do feature this (examples being Caribbean or Bodacious)

But would a back lock Polestar be seen as unique? The differences between the Leaf Jumper and the possible back lock Polestar seem very minor. It would be almost the same knife, only made in a different place and different materials.

Pole Leaf.jpg

I don't know of a compression lock that similar to the Polestar.

Good point and observation!

Perhaps the Caribbean (of course not a Golden knife though) comes closest to a comp.lock Polestar, but the Leafjumper is clearly more similar in shape to a backlock Polestar.

Comparing the LJ with a Backlock Polestar:
I don't know how much of a difference Golden vs Seki and G10 vs FRN would make concerning sales...

I also don't know how well the Leafjumper itself as a handle forward Lockback actually does on the market - but I have a feeling that perhaps and sadly not as well as it would deserve imo.

So, yes, contrary to what I personally would prefer there are strong arguments for giving the Golden Polestar a comp.lock.

[Mushroom]

In general “Handle Forward” is not a new concept. Not even for backlocks. The only thing “new” about it, is the way in which Spyderco is choosing to market it with backlocks. Which even at that I haven’t really seen them market it outside from Sal mentioning it here on the forum, so the majority of buyers are still unaware of it. For those who are familiar with the concept, it’s still not even entirely clear what it’s supposed to mean. (If I’m being honest, I don’t think “handle forward backlock” is much of a selling point anyway.)

It comes down to compression lock vs backlock, not compression lock vs backlock with handle forward design. If Spyderco has found that the market is trending more towards compression locks these days, then to me it is easy to understand why it would be chosen for the next iterations of these particular designs.

In regards to a Polestar 2, Alcyone 2, and a Deep Space - I wouldn’t mind either lock but my only preference is that they just pick one lock to produce, not both. Producing both is not necessary. For a model that doesn’t sell well to begin with, three lock variants would be overkill in my opinion. Especially since a third lock variant would occupy valuable space in the catalog.

[Wartstein]

In general...

Agreed - I don't think 3 different locktypes at least for Alcyone and Polestar (the Deep Space would "only" have two) make sense.

And yes, Spyderco should choose the comp.lock to "boost" the Polestar and Alcyone if that locktype is more popular!

Only thing I wonder (as described in a previous post), put very simplified :

Do they actually know that in Golden models it is the comp.lock that is more popular or do the more popular models "happen to have " a comp.lock?

Honest question, perhaps they have a way to determine which locktype inherently is more popular!

[Mushroom]

In general...

Agreed - I don't think 3 different locktypes at least for Alcyone and Polestar (the Deep Space would "only" have two) make sense.

And yes, Spyderco should choose the comp.lock to "boost" the Polestar and Alcyone if that locktype is more popular!

Only thing I wonder (as described in a previous post), put very simplified :

Do they actually know that in Golden models it is the comp.lock that is more popular or do the more popular models "happen to have " a comp.lock?

Honest question, perhaps they have a way to determine which locktype inherently is more popular!

I can’t speak for Spyderco but I would imagine they have the ability to analyze and compare their own sales numbers to determine which direction the market is trending towards.

Using the Lil Native as one example, there seems to be greater demand for the compression lock over the backlock when comparing the exclusives and sprints that have been produced. (11 compression locks compared to 0 backlocks)

[weeping minora]

Regardless of its strengths, I feel the backlock is seen as "outdated", anymore. People love to fidget with their knives, and no matter how against that concept anyone may be, it simply has become a direct selling point for many folks currently interested in locking pocket knives.

The backlock has been my favorite lock mechanism (and is still up there), but after carrying the Military 2 for the past ~7-8 months, the compression lock has grown on me a whole lot, perhaps becoming my favorite lock type. The fluidity and operation is stellar; offering much less finicky tuning to get "just right", versus some backlocks. It's nearly a set it and forget it mechanism. The backlock can be excessively smooth, but I feel it takes more to either A): get it there, and B): keep it there. Whilst Golden does a golden job with their execution of backlocks, the compression lock has been smoother, and "cleaner" (less pocket gunk interfering with solid lock up), than any backlock I've ever owned.

As I expressed in the other thread, I'm interested in seeing these models come to market. My preference at this point would be the compression lock variants, and most specifically the 4" Deep Space model, either in CruCarta, CoBlue G-10/SPY27, or perhaps a Dark Gray G-10/S45VN or XHP.