Upping the price.

[CDEP]

Thanks, Sal. You are a far more patient, and likely better all-around human, than I.

I'm gonna tap out of this thread now, before I prove the above statement, but please count my vote as one to keep doing what you do the exact way you do it.

Seems like it's been working for several consecutive decades now.

All the best to you, your family, and everyone at Spyderco World Domination HQ.

[RamZar]

Last year, effective January 2023, Spyderco raised the MSRP of almost all knives except for the Japanese-made knives. This year, effective February 2024, all street prices (MAP) of knives went up 7% due to MAP being reduced to 25% off MSRP from 30%. There really shouldn’t have been any price increases on Japanese models since the Yen has lost 10% of its value to the Dollar just in the past year.

[weeping minora]

Last year, effective January 2023, Spyderco raised the MSRP of almost all knives except for the Japanese-made knives. This year, effective February 2024, all street prices (MAP) of knives went up 7% due to MAP being reduced to 25% off MSRP from 30%. There really shouldn’t have been any price increases on Japanese models since the Yen has lost 10% of its value to the Dollar just in the past year.

But does this equate to, or factor in a higher cost of conducting business within Japan (especially and in this case in conjunction with business not just nationally, but overseas), wage increases for Japanese employees/overall labor (especially amongst skilled labor, along with an increase in cost-of-living within Japan), rising materials cost (of which I'm sure the materials used for these products are not entirely sourced within Japan itself), and the broader scope of inflation across the board (especially in regards to Japanese Spyderco product price increases: the cost of shipping) hitting Japan, as well? There's a bit more behind the scenes than the valuation of the Yen that I don't believe is being factored in to this train of thinking; all of which ultimately affects the cost of the end-line product that we see reflecting the overall product price increases.

[Road Tripper]

Thank you Sal, for sharing your thoughts in this thread.

One of my first Spydercos was a PM2 ($125 in late 2017). Going just by inflation, that would be about $160 today, but I'm sure other factors go into the final price, even excluding the MAP changes.

My knife collection (more than I need, to be sure) is about 70% Spyderco. I find I don't use the non-Spydies as much. It's not that there's anything objectively wrong with them, but they don't seem to feel as "right" to me. Not every Spydie has clicked with me, but I like the ones I have.

Is a less expensive tool that isn't used still a good value?

Interestingly, it took me a while to warm up to the Manix LW. Initially, I thought the handle radii and texture were a little harsh. In fact, I had it up for sale a couple of times, and eventually decided to keep it. Now I carry it a fair bit. I've come to think of that knife as "functionally beautiful." I don't think it's the one I'd grab for an extended cutting session, but it's a high quality everyday knife.

There's a quote attributed to Steve Jobs: "Design is how it works." That's what I think of in regard to Spyderco. Sal has talked about how some designs take years to come to market, and I think it shows.

[RamZar]

Last year, effective January 2023, Spyderco raised the MSRP of almost all knives except for the Japanese-made knives. This year, effective February 2024, all street prices (MAP) of knives went up 7% due to MAP being reduced to 25% off MSRP from 30%. There really shouldn’t have been any price increases on Japanese models since the Yen has lost 10% of its value to the Dollar just in the past year.

But does this equate to, or factor in a higher cost of conducting business within Japan (especially and in this case in conjunction with business not just nationally, but overseas), wage increases for Japanese employees/overall labor (especially amongst skilled labor, along with an increase in cost-of-living within Japan), rising materials cost (of which I'm sure the materials used for these products are not entirely sourced within Japan itself), and the broader scope of inflation across the board (especially in regards to Japanese Spyderco product price increases: the cost of shipping) hitting Japan, as well? There's a bit more behind the scenes than the valuation of the Yen that I don't believe is being factored in to this train of thinking; all of which ultimately affects the cost of the end-line product that we see reflecting the overall product price increases.

That’s why I mentioned no MSRP increase in the Japanese-made Spyderco knives in 2023 whereas all other sources increased to various degrees.

[cabfrank]

I don't have much to add here, but I will say this thread is interesting and informative. That can't be said about most things one reads online.

[weeping minora]

Last year, effective January 2023, Spyderco raised the MSRP of almost all knives except for the Japanese-made knives. This year, effective February 2024, all street prices (MAP) of knives went up 7% due to MAP being reduced to 25% off MSRP from 30%. There really shouldn’t have been any price increases on Japanese models since the Yen has lost 10% of its value to the Dollar just in the past year.

But does this equate to, or factor in a higher cost of conducting business within Japan (especially and in this case in conjunction with business not just nationally, but overseas), wage increases for Japanese employees/overall labor (especially amongst skilled labor, along with an increase in cost-of-living within Japan), rising materials cost (of which I'm sure the materials used for these products are not entirely sourced within Japan itself), and the broader scope of inflation across the board (especially in regards to Japanese Spyderco product price increases: the cost of shipping) hitting Japan, as well? There's a bit more behind the scenes than the valuation of the Yen that I don't believe is being factored in to this train of thinking; all of which ultimately affects the cost of the end-line product that we see reflecting the overall product price increases.

That’s why I mentioned no MSRP increase in the Japanese-made Spyderco knives in 2023 whereas all other sources increased to various degrees.

I suppose I don't quite follow what your post is trying to illustrate, then? Are you supposing that MAP pricing should not have decreased from 30% to 25% off MSRP for Japanese-made Spydercos because of the current valuation of the Yen?

[RamZar]

Last year, effective January 2023, Spyderco raised the MSRP of almost all knives except for the Japanese-made knives. This year, effective February 2024, all street prices (MAP) of knives went up 7% due to MAP being reduced to 25% off MSRP from 30%. There really shouldn’t have been any price increases on Japanese models since the Yen has lost 10% of its value to the Dollar just in the past year.

But does this equate to, or factor in a higher cost of conducting business within Japan (especially and in this case in conjunction with business not just nationally, but overseas), wage increases for Japanese employees/overall labor (especially amongst skilled labor, along with an increase in cost-of-living within Japan), rising materials cost (of which I'm sure the materials used for these products are not entirely sourced within Japan itself), and the broader scope of inflation across the board (especially in regards to Japanese Spyderco product price increases: the cost of shipping) hitting Japan, as well? There's a bit more behind the scenes than the valuation of the Yen that I don't believe is being factored in to this train of thinking; all of which ultimately affects the cost of the end-line product that we see reflecting the overall product price increases.

That’s why I mentioned no MSRP increase in the Japanese-made Spyderco knives in 2023 whereas all other sources increased to various degrees.

I suppose I don't quite follow what your post is trying to illustrate, then? Are you supposing that MAP pricing should not have decreased from 30% to 25% off MSRP for Japanese-made Spydercos because of the current valuation of the Yen?

Yes. Similar to last year when the MSRP of Japanese-made and Italian-made Spyderco knives did NOT increase while all others did.

Part of the reason I mention the Japanese-made Spyderco knives is that now a plain Jane Endura4 Lightweight with Satin VG-10 blade and
FRN scales is $102.38! It’s true that the MSRP did not increase this year but a reduction in MAP from 30% to 25% has resulted in all Spyderco knives increasing in dealer price by 7%.

[cycleguy]

**
I’m surprised USA manufacture companies have lasted, but glad they have.

Patting myself on the back and feeling warm and fuzzy for supporting local biz …

Spyderco Golden/Scott Montrose.

Life is better with them than without them.

CG

[sal]

Hi RamZar,

I guess I don't quite understand what it is you are asking us to do?

I'm still in the camp that we do not build to a price point. When price is more important than product, there is always something less expensive. If the product can't survive at the price we need to operate, then it goes away. It's that simple. We spend a great deal of time in pricing each year and there are many factors that we have to take into account. It takes days with sales, accounting, purchasing and all involved. I don't know how other companies do their pricing. We developed our techniques over many years.

Right now, the Yen is weak, That might help us recoup some of the margin we lost when the Yen was strong. To the customer, we try to be consistent with our pricing.

We changed MAP because we need dealers and dealers need MAP if they want to bother to carry our products. Some companies get around Advertising prices a number of ways. Some don't. We can't tell business's what to charge, that's illegal, we can only tell them what they should advertise at.

This thread seems to be trying to say that we somehow need to reduce our prices. I thought I explained how and why we charge what we charge. There are many products that I simply cannot afford or do wish to pay the price. It's all in your value system, priorities and budget.

When I go to purchase a car, I tell the salesman to give me the price, once. I don't negotiate. This irks a lot of salesmen because they delight in the "back and forth" negotiation. They give me a price and I say yes or no.

Some try to negotiate to get a lower price. That's their choice.

sal

[Naperville]

I cheated, I use Microsoft CoPilot AI to get more specific info. So, Spyderco designs, contracts to have something made, and then imports the product, and ships it to retailers. What might some of that process entail?


Here are the top 10 costs associated with having a product manufactured in Japan or China and importing it to the USA:

1. **Cost of the Products**: The initial cost of purchasing the products to be manufactured².
2. **Manufacturing Costs**: This includes labor costs, materials, and overhead. Labor costs have been increasing 15% to 20% annually in China compared to a USA 1.6% annual increase⁵.
3. **Currency Conversion Costs**: The cost of converting your local currency to the currency of the manufacturing country².
4. **International Freight & Logistics Charges**: The cost of transporting the goods from the manufacturing country to your location².
5. **Import Charges**: Any additional charges levied by the importing country².
6. **Port Charges**: Fees charged by the port authorities for handling the goods².
7. **Customs Clearance Fees**: Fees charged for the service of processing the goods through customs².
8. **Import Duties & Taxes**: Taxes imposed by the government on imported goods³.
9. **Local Delivery**: The cost of transporting the goods from the port to your warehouse or store².
10. **Tariffs**: Taxes imposed on imports, which can vary depending on the type of goods and the trade agreements between the importing and manufacturing countries¹³.

Please note that these costs can vary depending on the specific circumstances of the import, such as the type of goods, the countries involved, and the specific agreements in place between those countries¹³. It's always a good idea to consult with a trade professional or customs broker to get a detailed understanding of the potential costs involved in importing goods from overseas.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 2/19/2024
(1) How Much Does It Cost to Manufacture Overseas Versus at Home? https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.ed ... us-at-home
(2) Comparing Manufacturing Costs: USA vs China - Integrated Systems Design. https://www.isddd.com/articles/comparin ... -vs-china/
(3) Import Costs From China: Duties, Taxes and Other Fees. https://usacustomsclearance.com/process ... rom-china/
(4) Everything You Need To Know About Import Costs From Japan. https://usacustomsclearance.com/process ... rom-japan/
(5) Costs When Importing from China: A Complete Guide - Chinaimportal.com. https://www.chinaimportal.com/blog/cost ... ina-guide/

[Naperville]

I cheated again.... truth be told, some people want this argument to rage for months, and do not use facts.

Spyderco pretty much charge what they have to for products. 95% of the cost is baked in, and they have no control over the final price if they want to stay in business.

Have International Freight & Logistics Charges from China and Japan to the USA increased or decreased over the last 5 years?

International Freight & Logistics Charges from China and Japan to the USA have generally increased over the last 5 years¹²³⁴⁵.

Several factors have contributed to this increase. The COVID-19 pandemic has caused significant disruption to the global supply chain, leading to port closures and congestion, labor shortages, and a lack of new shipping containers²⁴. These challenges have resulted in higher freight rates, fees, and surcharges⁴.

For instance, as of February 2024, it costs about $7,980 to transport a 40-foot container from China to the US’s largest gateways for trade on the West Coast on a long-term contract, more than double the $3,070 paid a year ago³. Similarly, freight rates slumped to their lowest level on the 26th of October 2023, when the going rate for a 40-foot container was only 1,342 U.S. dollars. Since then, the global freight rate has gradually increased, hitting over 2,600 U.S. dollars in January 2024, the highest value on record².

However, these rates can fluctuate due to various factors, including changes in demand, fuel prices, and geopolitical events¹²³⁴⁵. It's always a good idea to consult with a logistics professional for the most current and accurate information.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 2/19/2024
(1) Shipping Delays & Freight Cost Increases 2024 | Freightos. https://www.freightos.com/freight-blog/ ... increases/
(2) Global container shipping rates 2024 | Statista. https://www.statista.com/statistics/144 ... ght-index/
(3) Supply Chain Latest: Ocean Freight Rates Are Falling - Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... re-falling
(4) Review of Maritime Transport 2021 - Chapter 3: Freight rates, maritime .... https://unctad.org/system/files/officia ... ch3_en.pdf
(5) Global shipping nears 'all-out price war' as China trade falls fast - CNBC. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/07/freight ... pidly.html

[tzirconia]

When I first became interested in pocket knives I thought Spyderco knives were too expensive compared to other brands mentioned in this thread. Then I bought a Delica 4 wharncliffe during a holiday sale, and after using it for about a month I realized it became my go to knife because the ergonomics and cutting performance were so much better than all my other non-Spyderco knives. I realize ergonomics and cutting performance can be subjective, but after trying a few more models from Spyderco I think the value equation is very strong.

Lately I've learned more about the history of Spyderco and how they operate and I think that just adds to the value equation. I'm happy to support them because I like the products and the company so will pay the asking price.

[RamZar]

Hi RamZar,

I guess I don't quite understand what it is you are asking us to do?

I'm still in the camp that we do not build to a price point. When price is more important than product, there is always something less expensive. If the product can't survive at the price we need to operate, then it goes away. It's that simple. We spend a great deal of time in pricing each year and there are many factors that we have to take into account. It takes days with sales, accounting, purchasing and all involved. I don't know how other companies do their pricing. We developed our techniques over many years.

Right now, the Yen is weak, That might help us recoup some of the margin we lost when the Yen was strong. To the customer, we try to be consistent with our pricing.

We changed MAP because we need dealers and dealers need MAP if they want to bother to carry our products. Some companies get around Advertising prices a number of ways. Some don't. We can't tell business's what to charge, that's illegal, we can only tell them what they should advertise at.

This thread seems to be trying to say that we somehow need to reduce our prices. I thought I explained how and why we charge what we charge. There are many products that I simply cannot afford or do wish to pay the price. It's all in your value system, priorities and budget.

When I go to purchase a car, I tell the salesman to give me the price, once. I don't negotiate. This irks a lot of salesmen because they delight in the "back and forth" negotiation. They give me a price and I say yes or no.

Some try to negotiate to get a lower price. That's their choice.

sal

Last year you did not increase the MSRP on the Spyderco knives made in Japan and Italy but you did for those from USA, Taiwan and China. While this year you did not increase MSRP on any knife you did change MAP which effectively raised all street prices by 7%. What I’m saying is that MAP shouldn’t have changed for Japanese made knives.

Lowering the MAP discount keeps raising the price at dealers. I know Spyderco doesn’t get anything extra but it’s a gift to dealers not consumers.

Since 2016, Spyderco has had numerous adjustments to MAP to placate dealers and to the detriment of consumers. On top of that numerous MSRP increases with a whopping one in 2022.

— MAP 40% off MSRP JAN 2016
— MAP 35% off MSRP JAN 2018
— MAP 30% off MSRP JAN 2020
— MAP 25% off MSRP FEB 2024

No matter how you slice it, the price of some U.S.-made, popular and best-selling knives from Spyderco and Benchmade are somewhat out of whack since there’s really nothing fancy about their materials. However, it is what it is.

— Spyderco Para3 (U.S.) with S45VN blade & G-10 handle: $187.50
— Benchmade 945 (U.S.) with S30V blade & G-10 handle: $207.00
— Kershaw Bel Air (U.S.) with MagnaCut blade & Aluminum handle: $149.95
— MKM Yipper (Italy - Fox Knives) with MagnaCut blade & G-10 handle: $139.90
— Doug Ritter Mini RSK (U.S. - Hogue Knives) with MagnaCut blade & G-10 handle: $159.95

[Bolster]

We changed MAP because we need dealers and dealers need MAP if they want to bother to carry our products.

Spyderco cuts a large swath in the cutlery world, a very well-respected brand, and I'd think dealers would be happy to carry Spyderco given its customer base. Are lots of dealers threatening to drop Spyderco if dealer margins aren't higher?

[sal]

Hi Ramzar,

We are always trying to find the best path. As costs change, the path does.

Trying to compare models from different manufacturers is challenging at best. Different materials, different locks, different tolerances, etc.

sal

[sal]

Hi Tzirconia,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[WilliamMunny]

Sal,

I also think there is something missing in your equation when you calculate your final price, Spyderco’s customer service and experience. It is something not tangible but can have a massive impact on your customer base.

Spyderco employees interact directly with their customers in positive ways, yearly calendar contests, Mule program, seconds sale, great warranty, great product support, etc. You can’t put a price on that type of experience and service.

I am sure I could find a cheaper knife somewhere with good quality but I know I would not receive the same support and experience.

To that end, I sent you an email on 2/6/24 12:08 Colorado time, to your company email address you put on the forum, regarding one of your employees, Michael, who has continued to do an amazing job. I know you’re busy but if you have a chance please take a look at it. Employees like that are why I keep coming back to Spyderco regardless of price.

[nerdlock]

We changed MAP because we need dealers and dealers need MAP if they want to bother to carry our products.

Spyderco cuts a large swath in the cutlery world, a very well-respected brand, and I'd think dealers would be happy to carry Spyderco given its customer base. Are lots of dealers threatening to drop Spyderco if dealer margins aren't higher?

Honestly I find it very odd also, Spyderco is among the top, IF NOT, the best-selling knife brand for many dealers and this is due in part to dealer exclusives, and partly also to social media "influencers" (emphasis on the quote unquote) I just can't imagine someone from REC or DLT threatening to drop Spyderco after having many of their exclusives sell out in a matter of minutes. These dealers can surely take a percentage hit on the MAP without much damage on their total profits.

[RamZar]

We changed MAP because we need dealers and dealers need MAP if they want to bother to carry our products.

Spyderco cuts a large swath in the cutlery world, a very well-respected brand, and I'd think dealers would be happy to carry Spyderco given its customer base. Are lots of dealers threatening to drop Spyderco if dealer margins aren't higher?

Honestly I find it very odd also, Spyderco is among the top, IF NOT, the best-selling knife brand for many dealers and this is due in part to dealer exclusives, and partly also to social media "influencers" (emphasis on the quote unquote) I just can't imagine someone from REC or DLT threatening to drop Spyderco after having many of their exclusives sell out in a matter of minutes. These dealers can surely take a percentage hit on the MAP without much damage on their total profits.

The trick with MAP becomes more apparent when the next MAP holiday comes around and a dealer advertises 35% off MSRP instead of the regular 25% off MSRP now. They’ll say, look you’re saving an extra 10% off MSRP. Frankly, I hold firm for 45%+ off MSRP like in the pre-MAP days.