Ok, could it be that LC200N fares better against Magnacut than some might think?

[Murat_Cyp]

- Corrosion resistance: Both in any just remotely normal use pretty much completely rustproof, but when things get really extreme: LC "wins"
- Ease of sharpening: LC "wins"
- Edge retention: MC "wins"
- Toughness: LC "wins"

I use MagnaCut daily and I can confirm your theory.

[/quote]
BUT: LC being even tougher could potentially mean, that it can take steeper [EDIT: I mean MORE ACUTE] edge angles which could translate to enhanced edge retention which would bring it closer to MC in that regard again.

[/quote]

I think opposite is true. MagnaCut has significicantly higher edge stability since LC200N does not get any harder than 59. Even 59 would be an achievement for LC200N. I suspect many of the LC200N knives are around 57-58 which is OK but not the best for acute angles on very thin knives. But on Spyderco knives it would not make a difference. As far as I know there is no knife in Spyderco range that is thinner than 10tho behind the edge. My Waterway is 10tho behind the edge and it holds up great at 15dps. And expected if I need to sharpen it, it is because of an edge roll rather than chip.

[Murat_Cyp]

- Corrosion resistance: Both in any just remotely normal use pretty much completely rustproof, but when things get really extreme: LC "wins"
- Ease of sharpening: LC "wins"
- Edge retention: MC "wins"
- Toughness: LC "wins"

I use MagnaCut and LC200N daily and I can confirm your theory.

BUT: LC being even tougher could potentially mean, that it can take steeper [EDIT: I mean MORE ACUTE] edge angles which could translate to enhanced edge retention which would bring it closer to MC in that regard again.

[/quote]

I think opposite is true. MagnaCut has significicantly higher edge stability since LC200N does not get any harder than 59. Even 59 would be an achievement for LC200N. I suspect many of the LC200N knives are around 57-58 which is OK but not the best for acute angles on very thin knives. But on Spyderco knives it would not make a difference. As far as I know there is no knife in Spyderco range that is thinner than 10tho behind the edge. My Waterway is 10tho behind the edge and it holds up great at 15dps. And expected if I need to sharpen it, it is because of an edge roll rather than chip.
[/quote]

[Wartstein]

Hey Gernot! I have not experienced Magnacut. Very curious about it and how it ultimately compares to other steels. The below example is why I do not think that toughness alone translates into better edge stability. ......

I use MagnaCut daily ...

Thanks a lot to both of you for that real life insights! Such is what I am looking for and people being able to provide it is one part of what makes this forum so good!

/ ... at this point in the discussion I have a feeling that in Spydercos Salt steel line up LC is the choice for those who want ffg (H2 can´t give us that) AND a steel that is really easy and quick to sharpen to a very keen edge.

In the "non Salt steel world" this is actually what often times steel in more "budget friendly" folders offer (thinking of BD1N, VG10, but also Spydercos 8CR).

LC 200N is definitely not a budget steel purely price wise though from all I can tell, but probably actually more expensive and harder to produce and get than Magnacut - ?!
It also still has the very high toughness over the above mentioned steels.

[Albertaboyscott]

Lc200n fares better than magnacut for me because of availability and price.
That will change over time but for me personally, inflation and already having knives with lc200n, s45vn, s110v etc that are very stainless is making it really hard to justify.
I live in the Canadian badlands so it's hard to rust any knife steel unless neglected. I guess it's all a sign that my knife collection is getting too big! Lol. Never
I recently bought a waterway and am very fond of it. I carry it often. If spyderco made one with magnacut I'm not sure I'd pass it up. Thats just the collector in me though. A serrated waterway in magnacut would be a nice option. So slim and rides high on the belt. A lot of knife for how it carries. Cheers

[buckleys]

I have two Quiet Carry folders, the Nine in Magnacut and the Drift LC in LC200N. I find that the LC200N gets "scary" sharp much easier than the Magnacut, and also "bites" into material much easier

[Bob Janvier]

Hi,
Today's video on Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors YouTube channel is on spot with this tread's topic.



Hope that helps

[CDEP]

I'm in Los Angeles, away from saltwater, and don't really *need* Salt-level corrosion resistance. I also have more knives in LC2200N than in MC: (Native 5 LC, Siren, Caribbean, SpydieChef, Waterway vs. Native 5 Magnacut Salt PE)

The most relevant difference for me is edge stability. I've had LC200N roll on me a few times, but never on MC (even including my non-Spydie Magnacut blades). And of course, the edge retention of MC is far superior.

It may seem odd, but to me Magnacut is a stainless M4, but easier to sharpen.

Cru-Wear still beats them all for my uses, but if I required high level corrosion resistance I'd go with Magnacut.

[Deadboxhero]

Hardness with good microstructure is an important factor for edge stability. It's not just carbide size, volume and raw toughness from lower hardness.


LC200N will always be limited in strength especially in a production setting with the hardness being capped near ~60rc or less. MagnaCut will always have a higher working hardness so it will translate to higher edge stability. The underlying reason the hardness is capped has to do with the metallurgy of chromium volume in solution with austenite when hardening.

I did some interesting testing that I shared on my Instagram back in December 2022.

I had a knife blade in AUS 6 at 57-58rc that I sharpened on a Tormek to a hollow bevel to 6dps
This is a low carbide volume stainless steel at low hardness which should be tougher than a very high carbide volume, high hardness stainless.

Tougher steel should have more edge stability?




When I tested it on the BESS media the edge was so thin and soft that it failed when cutting the BESS media.



While you get more "toughness" (plastic deformation before breaking) from softer HRC, it does not translate to more edge stability which relies more on strength.

When you push the geometry as small as possible, you are relying more on the strength (resilience/elasticity) of the microstructure more than the ductility (toughness) plasticity.


When reading this thread, one should not neglect the fundamental importance of strength and it's contribution for edge stability.

Because the 8% Vol of carbonitrides are so hard in MagnaCut It's important to make sure to rule out the abrasive hardness when making assessments about which is getting sharper between LC200N and MagnaCut.

Is Lc200N getting sharper because the abrasives used are soft?
These are important details to rule out for "real world" anecdotal experiences otherwise we are at the mercy of whims and scattered accounts without the details to put things in perspective.

[Bolster]

...These are important details to rule out for "real world" anecdotal experiences otherwise we are at the mercy of whims and scattered accounts without the details to put things in perspective.

Hear the man!

[jasonstone20]

... Added to my post above:

A bit later in the vid it gets mentioned (by the kc guy) how tough and "un-chippy" LC 200N is.

This relates to my original question that made me start this thread:

IF LC is really that "tough" (and that´s what I found too to in my limited experience), and NOT too far in wear resistance from MC: LC should potentially be able to tolerate a bit more acute edge angles, which could enhance the edge retention again..

Anyway - from all I´ve heard so far I´d maybe take LC over MC if I was in the market for a folder with super high corrosion resistance.. the difference in edge retention is perhaps is not that substantial (?), LC could be tougher and easier to sharpen. Some strong points for that steel imo.

In any case I think no one can say LC is obsolete cause MC is here now.
(Watching the latest vids with Eric MC could have some advantages for the makers though).

This is certainly a topic that no one has a definitive answer for, and brings up a great topic for discussion.

I look at it like this, a steel with the ability to allow for and hold a thin geometry does not inherently increase its edge retention, but its retention in cutting ability. You can fine tune this inherent ability through heat treatment. Just because you are lowering the angle to an edge of any given piece of sharpened steel, does not mean you are somehow increasing that particular steels edge retention, as you cannot add wear resistance to a steel that has a set resistance to wear (via its chemical composition). You are therefore, increasing the cutting ability through geometry. The ability for any given steel to accommodate such characteristics is found within its chemistry, and crafted in its heat treatment. You will inherently need more strength and toughness to allow for more strenuous tolerances (the forces applied and the steels ability to withstand such forces when under stress and strain) that the apex/edge will endure within a thinner cross-section during use.

The raw wear resistance and edge retention might be very similar between MagnaCut and LC200N as steel, but once you fine tune their chassis (blade shape and grind), and make upgrades to their engines (geometry and edge), which will ultimately edge out in performance? For most folks who have the experience, MagnaCut seems to be the clear winner. From the datasheet, and overall informational knowledge shared thus far comparing and contrasting the abilities of these two steels, MagnaCut seems the steel that would have the ability to achieve greater resistance to wear, and have greater edge retention, as an edged tool. This is however, merely a possibility, and will only be revealed from the applied heat treatment.

The end-line user is the biggest factor, and therefore the "moving target" (the variable in inability to completely answer this question) for all of these questions regarding "better or best", regardless the scientific testing. To be clear, there are scientific parameters that do show better, or best when comparing two (or more) steels for certain catagorical differences (as illustrated most here as edge retention, and wear resistance), however, it is the usage and maintenance of such edged piece of steel that creates an unknown variable that is exclusive to the user. To that point (pun?), I have never seen a steel so controversially juxtaposed as LC200N, due to such variation in usage and maintenance from the ELU.

This is a great point and something I was going to allude to. Why are we judging knives/knife steel by edge retention? I think cutting ability is a better metric to focus on, as well as ergonomics and safety. We have such great knives and knife steel, that we really don't have bad knives, at least I really haven't run into one. This is within reason of course, but when was the last time someone was doing practical cutting, IE work that you'd use a knife for in a normal situation for the user, and the knife became dull to where it was unusable? We have had portable sharpening equipment for quite a long time with pocket stones, rods, bog-bones, steeling devices, and diamond butterfly handle sharpening plates. Most of these devices are quite affordable and can get a knife shaving sharp rather quickly. Look at what is used in industries and jobs where hand cutting is done, and how the blade is maintained. You are not going to be finding any hard-to-sharpen, high-carbide steels there, at least from what I have seen. Most of the kitchen blade steel used in most households is some type of 420 or AUS-6 or AUS-8. Those knives can be kept sharp under regular use for quite a while before a full sharpening is needed, given they are not put in the dishwasher or cut on plates.

I haven't used MagnaCut yet, but I have EDC'd LC200N for a year or so, and it is a great steel, never had any issues with corrosion, and I live in a wet, humid climate (Pacific Northwest). It took and kept a keen edge, both with a mirror-polished edge, and also used with a #325 DMT/Spyderco CBN C/F India edge. It wasn't an edge I was concerned about not being sharp enough for the task at hand, ie breaking down cardboard/paperboard/corrugated cardboard boxes for recycling. It would be interesting to compare it to MagnaCut with similar use and carry.

[jasonstone20]

Hardness with good microstructure is an important factor for edge stability. It's not just carbide size, volume and raw toughness from lower hardness.

This!! What makes a good knife steel is a good balance of these qualities, and getting a HT with the hardness as high as you can get it for the task at hand if possible. In this case, for EDC purposes. Some steels also have a 'sweet-spot' for use as a cutlery steel if I remember correctly. Some steels have different properties at the same hardness, which is why it is nice to have a selection of steels. Just my opinion.