Delica 4 in 2024?

[RugerNurse]

What are the chances of a magnacut Delica sprint?

[p_atrick]

What are the chances of a magnacut Delica sprint?

Serious question, what's the timeline? I doubt we'd see one this year, but who knows about after that. I have no specific information about why it wouldn't happen this year. These things just take longer than many of us expect. I would say the odds are good, but I'm clueless at predicting a plausible date.

[jwbnyc]

Gerald over at Outpost 76 made some interesting findings re; VG10, Four or so years ago.

He seems to like the working edge on VG10 quite a bit.

He also states that he’s had examples of 20cv and M390 that haven’t done as well as Spyderco VG10 in that regard.



I picked up a couple of Thin Red Line Enduras recently. Subjectively, these are some of the best VG10 knives I’ve encountered. They apparently ran those puppies pretty hard.


I bring it up here because the value equation with the Signature knives seems to come down to the quality of steel versus the price, but what exactly does that mean for the market?

Do you slap a PM steel into the base Delica? Tool steel? Neither of those options are going to serve the target consumer very well imo.

The base PM steel Spyderco uses is CTS BD1N or BD1, [EDIT] - (BD1N, BD1, Not PM STEELS) - sometimes. VG10 is more to my taste, about the same, but a tiny bit better. Some may feel the other way. It would have to be imported into Japan; that’s going to add cost.

I say better, but what I mean is higher edge retention, which always seems to be the upper most indicator of value/quality for most people who care at all about that sort of thing.

No. What you get with VG10 is a top tier ingot steel. It’s really very good, easy to live with, easy to maintain, good edge retention. Better than 14C28, Better than AEBL, if you go by Larrin’s chart, which doesn’t necessarily reflect on Spyderco VG10.

Would it be nice if we could get it for $50.00? Sure.

You can get VG10 in some of the discontinued models for close to that.

But, I can get it for under $80.00 Bucks shipped in a Delica, without jumping through hoops right now.

If that’s too much, wait for a MAP holiday.

It’s already been pointed out that higher tier steels are available, lots of them, and at pretty good prices.

It just seems like VG10 deserves a bit more respect than it gets. Would it get more respect if we swapped names? 154CM? ATS34? Those are the steels it sits right next to. People always seem to hold those in high regard. I’m just trying to make the point that you are not going to get a lot more performace out of any comparable steel, that Spyderco can get their hands on, at the moment, and even if you could it probably would not lower the price, quite the contrary.

Personally, I’m waiting for the $30.00 Magnacut Delica. I have a feeling I’m going to be waiting a long time.

And, as far as design and construction go; very few knives on the market have had as much time and attention to detail put into them.

Also, I’m pretty sure Spyderco isn’t trying to shoot themselves in the foot by pricing themselves out of the market. What I am pretty sure of is that they are trying to make a product that they can be proud of at the end of the day.

I’d rather pay a bit more for a Delica with VG10, than get a great deal on a Delica with Chinese D2, if that would even be possible, which it probably isn’t anyway. It would probably end up costing more.

Anyway, Sal wanted to discuss value.

Take my money.

[ChrisinHove]

I’ve carried my sg Delica in my everyday work bag for exactly ten years, now.

If you asked me what my favourite knife is, this wouldn’t be it, but you can’t say that something that does its job for a decade and is still the best choice isn’t good value.

I suppose the pertinent question is whether, if I didn’t know Spyderco now, like I didn’t know Spyderco then, would I make the same choice?

There is a lot of white noise, lots of bling, and lots of apparently good value Chinese knives out there now, but I would hope that the reputation for long term high performance and ethical manufacture would steer me in the right direction (if I knew about it).

[RugerNurse]

All this talk makes me want to break out my Delica in VG10 and carry for awhile. It’s is great design and I like having liners. I always enjoy my salt version but the standard blade shape in the Delica I prefer more.
As for VG10, I can understand people’s wants for a different steel with different properties to suit their needs but for someone like me that uses their knife 3-4 times a week (wish it was more) VG10 holds up fine.

[electro-static]

Gerald over at Outpost 76 made some interesting findings re; VG10, Four or so years ago.

He seems to like the working edge on VG10 quite a bit.

He also states that he’s had examples of 20cv and M390 that haven’t done as well as Spyderco VG10 in that regard.



I picked up a couple of Thin Red Line Enduras recently. Subjectively, these are some of the best VG10 knives I’ve encountered. They apparently ran those puppies pretty hard.


I bring it up here because the value equation with the Signature knives seems to come down to the quality of steel versus the price, but what exactly does that mean for the market?

Do you slap a PM steel into the base Delica? Tool steel? Neither of those options are going to serve the target consumer very well imo.

The base PM steel Spyderco uses is CTS BD1N or BD1, sometimes. VG10 is more to my taste, about the same, but a tiny bit better. Some may feel the other way. It would have to be imported into Japan; that’s going to add cost.

I say better, but what I mean is higher edge retention, which always seems to be the upper most indicator of value/quality for most people who care at all about that sort of thing.

No. What you get with VG10 is a top tier ingot steel. It’s really very good, easy to live with, easy to maintain, good edge retention. Better than 14C28, Better than AEBL, if you go by Larrin’s chart, which doesn’t necessarily reflect on Spyderco VG10.

Would it be nice if we could get it for $50.00? Sure.

You can get VG10 in some of the discontinued models for close to that.

But, I can get it for under $80.00 Bucks shipped in a Delica, without jumping through hoops right now.

If that’s too much, wait for a MAP holiday.

It’s already been pointed out that higher tier steels are available, lots of them, and at pretty good prices.

It just seems like VG10 deserves a bit more respect than it gets. Would it get more respect if we swapped names? 154CM? ATS34? Those are the steels it sits right next to. People always seem to hold those in high regard. I’m just trying to make the point that you are not going to get a lot more performace out of any comparable steel, that Spyderco can get their hands on, at the moment, and even if you could it probably would not lower the price, quite the contrary.

Personally, I’m waiting for the $30.00 Magnacut Delica. I have a feeling I’m going to be waiting a long time.

And, as far as design and construction go; very few knives on the market have had as much time and attention to detail put into them.

Also, I’m pretty sure Spyderco isn’t trying to shoot themselves in the foot by pricing themselves out of the market. What I am pretty sure of is that they are trying to make a product that they can be proud of at the end of the day.

I’d rather pay a bit more for a Delica with VG10, than get a great deal on a Delica with Chinese D2, if that would even be possible, which it probably isn’t anyway. It would probably end up costing more.

Anyway, Sal wanted to discuss value.

Take my money.

I give knives as gifts and have noticed that what we value as enthusiasts isn’t necessary what non-enthusiasts that use knives value. For example I gave a byrd to my roomate as a gift, he loves how sharp it is and how well it holds an edge. But I have never received it back from him dull from abrasive wear, the blade is always blunted, rolled, and chipped. It takes me 5 mins on a work sharp field sharpener to get it back to hair shaving with very little skill.

If I gave him a knife in K390 or 20CV it would likely be in the same or worse condition and would take me much longer to fix.

He cuts tubing on dirty ground, clears holes in dirt, and strips wire with the thing, that type of work would damage any steel so ability to get it back to a sharp edge quickly and easily matters the most for someone using a knife in that way.

I think VG10 will be a better knife steel for more non-enthusiasts with limited sharpening skill than many of the steels we nerd out over and that is why it continues to be used in the line.

I think someone who knows how to care for knives, or who uses them in specialized tasks will definitely prefer something else.

[spydergoat]

I have largely moved on to the Salt 2 wharnie as my preferred "Delica." For my use case it's hard to argue with a longer blade, lighter weight, and LC200n. But, everytime I pull out one of my older Delicas with liners (of which I have 5) they just feel good to use. The Delica has something special about it that you have to use it to understand, and will never be outdated IMO because it doesn't bow to trends or knife reviewer checklists. Spyderco's design language and the Delica stand apart. Any mentions of "value" from collectors, and people who probably own 25 "value" knives crack me up. This has never been about maximizing our dollars; it's about enjoying the **** out of a cool knife, and getting a high performance tool that you can trust and helps you do what you do easier and more enjoyably.

[JSumm]

I feel the same about the Endela. I'm sure many feel the same about the Endura. Just a no non-sense efficient cutter and workhorse. Reliable and familiar.

[Cl1ff]

The performance Delica is something I’m hoping to see at shot show or blade show this year.
If I buy a delica in 2024, it will be that one.

It is not a perfect knife for me, but it’s got the necessary characteristics that make up a useful knife for me.
I have an s30v wharncliffe delica because it’s just enough of a knife that I can make do with it during any kind of day I typically go through.
Probably my knife that’s most adaptable to a widest variety of settings, alongside my Spy27 Native that I view very similarly.

[Fastidiotus]

The base PM steel Spyderco uses is CTS BD1N or BD1, sometimes.

BD1 and BD1N are still ingot steels.

The average person can get a nice edge on vg-10 with what they already own. Compared to how many complaints there are floating around on the Internet that D2 is "hard, difficult, impossible" to put an edge on. Personally I'd like to see BD1N replace vg-10 as the new baseline budget steel if the price didn't change. I enjoy the corrosion resistance of BD1N. In my experience it's just as enjoyable to sharpen, and even though Larrin's chart disagrees, for me I see better performance from it.

I think CPM 154 would be the closest to a direct PM replacement, it would give everyone the feeling that the knife has been upgraded but would only be viable if the price stayed close to the same. To replace vg-10 with a PM steel that would be a true upgrade and wouldn't rock the boat for the general sharpening public it'd have to be Spy27, but the price would likely be equal to the k390 models.

There's a lot of sentiment in the knife community that for the price vs the performance that the vg-10 delica/endura don't represent the good value that they used to. But does the average knife buyer think that? The profits and reduced logistics from keeping the Seki knives vg-10 has likely provided a dependable and stable foundation for Spyderco to invest in being on the forefront of steel offerings.

[R100]

The base PM steel Spyderco uses is CTS BD1N or BD1, sometimes.

BD1 and BD1N are still ingot steels.

The average person can get a nice edge on vg-10 with what they already own. Compared to how many complaints there are floating around on the Internet that D2 is "hard, difficult, impossible" to put an edge on. Personally I'd like to see BD1N replace vg-10 as the new baseline budget steel if the price didn't change. I enjoy the corrosion resistance of BD1N. In my experience it's just as enjoyable to sharpen, and even though Larrin's chart disagrees, for me I see better performance from it.

I think CPM 154 would be the closest to a direct PM replacement, it would give everyone the feeling that the knife has been upgraded but would only be viable if the price stayed close to the same. To replace vg-10 with a PM steel that would be a true upgrade and wouldn't rock the boat for the general sharpening public it'd have to be Spy27, but the price would likely be equal to the k390 models.

There's a lot of sentiment in the knife community that for the price vs the performance that the vg-10 delica/endura don't represent the good value that they used to. But does the average knife buyer think that? The profits and reduced logistics from keeping the Seki knives vg-10 has likely provided a dependable and stable foundation for Spyderco to invest in being on the forefront of steel offerings.

That is really strange. I have found much better performance out of VG10 with at least the difference Larrin's chart shows. I've also found BD1N chips more. It may be a difference in our use. For me I would regard BD1N as a big downgrade from VG10 and it would stop me buying knives. I have also found VG10 to be a superior steel to 154CM and I really like it as the base Seki steel. It is a classic Japanese steel and the Seki makers do it really well.

Dan

[Skywalker]

I think the value question is a valid one. I've been sorting through the ”popular" and "most purchased" pages of a few of the large online retailers, refreshing my memory of what's available. The basic VG-10 Delica/Endela/Endura are MAP priced at $88/$92/$95 so I figured I'd keep it roughly $100 or less.

What knife would I buy today with none of my current collection and $100 to spend?

The short answer is that it would probably still be a VG-10 Delica or Endura. Maybe an Endela; I'm liking the K390 wharncliffe one I picked up a lot.


I didn't find as much PM steel in this range as I expected - little bit of S35VN in a handful of Buck, Cold Steel, Civivi models. A lot of the PM steel that came up on e.g. BHQ under $100 was actually models discontinued and discounted to get to that price. (same with the exclusive Delicas or discontinued K390 variants, may be a better deal than regular production at usual MAP.)

Regular production is a lot of D2, AUS-8A, AUS-10A, 14C28N, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr18MoV, Nitro-V, 154CM... I think Spyderco's VG-10 competes well with those (and for what it's worth I actively avoid D2). I also trust that Spyderco's designs are going to be good to actually use for cutting in hand, including the blade stock thickness and grind, which is a big part of the value for me.


I had a lot more typed out but it was getting into detailed thoughts about other manufacturers' offerings and I'm not sure this is the place.

Suffice it to say that under $100, my first three regular production choices would be Spyderco: one of the Delica/Endela/Endura Seki VG-10 FRN models, followed by probably the SPY-27 UKPK, then the Astute or Emphasis. I think the value is still there for the Delica vs the competition.

Over $125 or $150 there's a lot more options available and I think the value question gets more interesting (honestly I probably still want a K390 Endura) but that's a separate conversation.

[jwbnyc]

The base PM steel Spyderco uses is CTS BD1N or BD1, sometimes.

BD1 and BD1N are still ingot steels.

Thanks for the correction.

[Fastidiotus]

That is really strange. I have found much better performance out of VG10 with at least the difference Larrin's chart shows. I've also found BD1N chips more. It may be a difference in our use. For me I would regard BD1N as a big downgrade from VG10 and it would stop me buying knives. I have also found VG10 to be a superior steel to 154CM and I really like it as the base Seki steel. It is a classic Japanese steel and the Seki makers do it really well.

Dan

I will say my experience with BD1N is on smaller knives like the Cat and UKPK. Maybe I'll have to buy a Native Chief or Manix 2 LW to try it out on a bigger harder working blade...you know for science. I do still love vg-10 and wouldn't want to see it go away completely, but I was pleasantly surprised and impressed with BD1N as a budget steel.

[Deadboxhero]

In a world, obsessed with every attribute to a folding knife except strangely enough what actually contributes to making a great performing folding knife that we actually carry and use for cutting. The Delica 4 "Full Flat Grind" (ffg) is quite refreshing, especially to newcomers who have not experienced this humble, timeless classic.

While it doesn't have all of the features our favorite social media reviewers regurgitate that we need on a folder such as flippers, bearings, "fidgety action" etc. which don't get me wrong, those are also cool things to play with.


I find the Delica 4 ffg has some of the most important attributes in a folder that a lot of us find ourselves ACTUALLY carrying every day rather than saying that we do but leaving it in the car, dresser etc

I like to think it's thanks to its small, thin profile and lightweight, it can accommodate almost any wardrobe and disappear until you need it, yet it's substantial enough for most light cutting tasks that we find in everyday environments.



Whenever I see another guy carrying a Delica 4, It's like a "knife guy's handshake." Or like a cool nod that we are both in on a very big secret since the Delica 4 can be a total "sleeper" a knife that hides its performance with humble looks.

This knife is just an excellent cutter, especially when you put your own and edge finish on it to your desires.

I remember five years ago I talked to Michael Christy and he brought up the notion of a "walk away knife"


Basically, he said if he decided to walk away from being a knife enthusiast and just go back to being a regular, less knife obsessed guy the Spyderco Delica 4 full flat grind would be his "walk away knife"

I completely agree and that's especially more true now that it's been available in K390.

Would your walk away version be VG10 or K390? Answer seems obvious, but I wonder if ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance aside there’s a benefit to VG10?

I would say the K390.

I have been spoiled by the modern wonders of higher edge retention steels.

I like to focus my effort on creating an excellent edge and I like a steel to return the favor back to me and hold it for a good long while.

I get disappointed when I take the time to create a wonderful edge and I don't get the return on the time because it dulls faster than I felt like the effort I put in was worth.

I'm not really a big fan of constant rolling at the edge and having to constantly touch it up with softer steels. My time has been more limited for sharpening these days so I appreciate the return on time investment with higher edge retention.

I'm sure we could flip that equation and that would be better for other people. So I'm not saying what I like is what everybody should like.

[Sharp24/7]

In a world, obsessed with every attribute to a folding knife except strangely enough what actually contributes to making a great performing folding knife that we actually carry and use for cutting. The Delica 4 "Full Flat Grind" (ffg) is quite refreshing, especially to newcomers who have not experienced this humble, timeless classic.

While it doesn't have all of the features our favorite social media reviewers regurgitate that we need on a folder such as flippers, bearings, "fidgety action" etc. which don't get me wrong, those are also cool things to play with.


I find the Delica 4 ffg has some of the most important attributes in a folder that a lot of us find ourselves ACTUALLY carrying every day rather than saying that we do but leaving it in the car, dresser etc

I like to think it's thanks to its small, thin profile and lightweight, it can accommodate almost any wardrobe and disappear until you need it, yet it's substantial enough for most light cutting tasks that we find in everyday environments.



Whenever I see another guy carrying a Delica 4, It's like a "knife guy's handshake." Or like a cool nod that we are both in on a very big secret since the Delica 4 can be a total "sleeper" a knife that hides its performance with humble looks.

This knife is just an excellent cutter, especially when you put your own and edge finish on it to your desires.

I remember five years ago I talked to Michael Christy and he brought up the notion of a "walk away knife"


Basically, he said if he decided to walk away from being a knife enthusiast and just go back to being a regular, less knife obsessed guy the Spyderco Delica 4 full flat grind would be his "walk away knife"

I completely agree and that's especially more true now that it's been available in K390.

Would your walk away version be VG10 or K390? Answer seems obvious, but I wonder if ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance aside there’s a benefit to VG10?

I would say the K390.

I have been spoiled by the modern wonders of higher edge retention steels.

I like to focus my effort on creating an excellent edge and I like a steel to return the favor back to me and hold it for a good long while.

I get disappointed when I take the time to create a wonderful edge and I don't get the return on the time because it dulls faster than I felt like the effort I put in was worth.

I'm not really a big fan of constant rolling at the edge and having to constantly touch it up with softer steels. My time has been more limited for sharpening these days so I appreciate the return on time investment with higher edge retention.

I'm sure we could flip that equation and that would be better for other people. So I'm not saying what I like is what everybody should like.

Thanks for the reply, Shawn, and especially for laying out your thinking. I agree for the most part. However, after playing around with Super Blue I have almost as much appreciation for the low(er) alloy carbon steels. The polished edges seem to hold up well and response brilliantly to a little stropping, and even the coarse edges hold up okay. If I can’t have that long lasting edge then I’ll want something that’s easy to work with.

[Halfneck]

I've carried a Delica of some sort since they 1st came out. I currently own 2 - a SE ZDP-189, and a FFG in Brown FRN.

I originally bought my 1st Delica as an inexpensive beater to replace my Harpy that I'd pawned. The Harpy was the 1st Spydero I'd ever owned, but I wanted a more traditional blade shape. I ended up carrying it as an EMT. At some point I snapped the integral pocketclip & probably gave it away.

Sometime after going into the Army, I bought a 1st Gen Delica with a CE. I used the **** out of it for a while but ended up replacing it with a Benchmade CQC7. I gave the CE Delica to a kid in my squad that was carrying a crappy knife.

I bought a Gen 2 but ended up trading it as I preferred the FRN versions. The Gen 3 I owned improved a lot on the Gen 1 as far as pocketclip, & steel, but the handle shape did not feel as good to me.

My 1st Gen 4, the SE ZDP-189 version, was bought as a lightweight knife to carry while working as a CNA in an Urgent Care clinic. Lots of improvements to me over the original, and the handle shape was back to the great ergonomics of the original. I liked it enough that I ended up getting a second one later with the FFG.

My FFG VG10 Gen 4 has been my go-to EDC when I don't know what I want to carry. I just kind of instinctually grab it. I've used it doing yardwork. I've used it to instruct proper knife use in Cub Scouts, then later in Boy Scouts. I've carried it along on camping & hiking trips. I've carried it as a work EDC (though kinda overkill now in my office type job now). I've carried it along as a possible SD GTFO me knife that I wouldn't sweat losing.

It's no longer as inexpensive an option as they used to be. It's doesn't fit the paradigm of current SD knifes (Big, Thick, Tactical). It's lock is nothing new, or fancy. VG10 is not the latest & greatest.

All that said, it will still accomplish most people's knife needs, and do so at a fair price for a quality product.

[Deadboxhero]

Thanks for the reply, Shawn, and especially for laying out your thinking. I agree for the most part. However, after playing around with Super Blue I have almost as much appreciation for the low(er) alloy carbon steels. The polished edges seem to hold up well and response brilliantly to a little stropping, and even the coarse edges hold up okay. If I can’t have that long lasting edge then I’ll want something that’s easy to work with.

Super blue is very enjoyable to sharpen.

"Sticky" edges.

[Sharp24/7]

Thanks for the reply, Shawn, and especially for laying out your thinking. I agree for the most part. However, after playing around with Super Blue I have almost as much appreciation for the low(er) alloy carbon steels. The polished edges seem to hold up well and response brilliantly to a little stropping, and even the coarse edges hold up okay. If I can’t have that long lasting edge then I’ll want something that’s easy to work with.

Super blue is very enjoyable to sharpen.

"Sticky" edges.

It’s definitely my favorite to work with.

[Halfneck]

Bumping this back up to ask: Are there any plans for a Delica in SPY27 with cobalt blue FRN?