Community Sharpening Journal

[Cycletroll]

Wallach, thanks for sharing :)
I'm pretty sure what you're seeing there at the tip of the knife is the thickening primary grind leading to a wider bevel. Most production Knives have varying bevel grind thickness either intentionally or unintentionally; this is one of the disadvantages of a fixed angle sharpening system is that you will end up with uneven bevel width as the blade grind dimension changes.
This also explains why certain parts of the edge are sharper than others. If the primary grind is thicker at that point you have not removed enough metal to get clear to the Apex and so the knife is not as sharp at that area.
That's one of the primary advantages of freehand sharpening; you can adjust the angle of the blade to the stone to account for primary grind thickness variations .
As to the motion one makes with the stone on the edge this has a greatest effect on scratch pattern and micro-serations caused by the scratch pattern. Pressure of course has a significant effect on wear to one's abrasives and light pressure should be used to allow the diamond particles to do the cutting.

[Ramonade]

I have a Precision Adjust as well. I find the sawing motion much more effective and easier to keep the same pressure throughout the entire edge while sharpening, vs the sweeping motion. You don't need to use any pressure, basically the weight of the stone on the blade is all you need. Let that 220 grit do the work.

I've noticed that on low grit edges it works well but if you go a bit higher you need to use the sweeping motion on most blade because the angle is too inconsistant. Even when trying to put the blade in the best position possible.

I only use mine for reprofiling, because I want it to be very precise and still don't trust myself with reprofiling high carbide content steels. I'm gonna have to start doing it freehand no matter the steel though because our hands can do so much more than a plastic/aluminium thingy

ETA : the original stones on the WSPA (and Elite) are very narrow, that makes sweeping motions harder to control pressure wise. I use an adaptator with venev stones, which are a bit wider, this helps a lot. Wallach seems to be on the WSPA Pro, with stones twice as wide, that must be a good feeling !

[Traditional.Sharpening]

ordered some silicon carbide grit to attept re-conditioning my old sharpmaker stones. I've been replacing them on average of every 5 years, so I've got 4 sets at this point.

I ordered 1,000 grit for the fines and 500 grit for the mediums. Also got some 300 grit to try and get a medium set extra coarse.

Generally you want something much more coarse than the level of finish you want from the stone you are conditioning. This loose abrasive will break down very quickly and in short order it begins polishing more than giving an aggressive cutting surface. I would say the 1000/500 combo may be a touch fine for what you're doing, better to be 3x more coarse than 2x.

ie : Spyderco Medium : roughly 1100 grit ANSI, recondition with 320 or below
Spyderco Fine : roughly 1800 grit ANSI, recondition with 600 or below

Therefore, I'd suggest the 300 grit on the medium stone and the 500 on the fine stone. It should give a surface (on the medium stone) which is rough enough to where you can *hear* the grit actually working when you take a knife to sharpen AND the surface will actually begin to absorb a visible amount of water on the surface and not simply bead and stand there.

The thing about the Spyderco ceramics is you should never actually need to replace them unless they get damaged. They wear so slowly that I imagine one can keep reconditioning/flattening the surface indefinitely. Good on you for reconditioning them, I very much do not like the throw away economy we live in and every bit counts. Hopefully others will try also.

[vivi]

I got the same advice from someone else so I modified the order to lower grits. I think I got 80, 120 and 220

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/sil ... 9568066669

my old sharpmaker stones still work, they just leave a finer finish than new ones. I keep my old sharpmaker in my backpack with diamond and medium rods so I can get dull knives sharp or touch up mine on the go, and my new sharpmaker with fresh rods at home for when I'm taking my time to get a really good edge.

[vivi]

https://idahoners.com/products/7-triang ... 2238502026

has anyone tried these? they look like they could be nice for applying quick toothy edges.

[JoviAl]

https://idahoners.com/products/7-triang ... 2238502026

has anyone tried these? they look like they could be nice for applying quick toothy edges.

Just out of interest, what potential advantage do these give over the Spyderco CBN/Brown/Ceramics?

[JoviAl]

On a separate note - has anyone else noticed that BD1N responds extremely well to a butcher’s steel?

I sharpened my z-cut a couple of days back and got it to hair popping sharp using my usual gear and strops. The next day it got some heavy use so I thought I’d give it a quick touch up on my butcher’s steel (just a decent quality one I bought from a commercial butcher’s supplier in Sheffield a few years back). Imagine my surprise when after a few minutes on the steel it was way sharper than when I’d previously sharpened it with all my gear (my helper cut herself badly on it and didn’t realise until I pointed out her hand was hosing blood). It was possibly the sharpest knife I’ve ever used, but the absolute sharpness faded after about twenty cuts through some carrots on a plastic chopping board.

Does anyone know why it might have responded so well to a sharpening steel?

[Deadboxhero]

On a separate note - has anyone else noticed that BD1N responds extremely well to a butcher’s steel?

I sharpened my z-cut a couple of days back and got it to hair popping sharp using my usual gear and strops. The next day it got some heavy use so I thought I’d give it a quick touch up on my butcher’s steel (just a decent quality one I bought from a commercial butcher’s supplier in Sheffield a few years back). Imagine my surprise when after a few minutes on the steel it was way sharper than when I’d previously sharpened it with all my gear (my helper cut herself badly on it and didn’t realise until I pointed out her hand was hosing blood). It was possibly the sharpest knife I’ve ever used, but the absolute sharpness faded after about twenty cuts through some carrots on a plastic chopping board.

Does anyone know why it might have responded so well to a sharpening steel?

Overhoned adhesively into a straightened out foil burr edge at the apex. This can be sharp but will fold over with minimal use.

[Deadboxhero]

Helped teach a freehand knife sharpening class over the weekend.

Been teaching freehand knife sharpening for 7 years now.

I enjoy taking a rather complicated subject and simplifying it into something entry level that could be understood and that gives excellent results.



In the future,
It would be fun to do a highly advanced knife sharpening class one day also with more hands on with edge theory, different steels, testing and measuring tools.

[vivi]

https://idahoners.com/products/7-triang ... 2238502026

has anyone tried these? they look like they could be nice for applying quick toothy edges.

Just out of interest, what potential advantage do these give over the Spyderco CBN/Brown/Ceramics?

coarser finish, which is superior for some blades compared to higher polish.

[JoviAl]

On a separate note - has anyone else noticed that BD1N responds extremely well to a butcher’s steel?

I sharpened my z-cut a couple of days back and got it to hair popping sharp using my usual gear and strops. The next day it got some heavy use so I thought I’d give it a quick touch up on my butcher’s steel (just a decent quality one I bought from a commercial butcher’s supplier in Sheffield a few years back). Imagine my surprise when after a few minutes on the steel it was way sharper than when I’d previously sharpened it with all my gear (my helper cut herself badly on it and didn’t realise until I pointed out her hand was hosing blood). It was possibly the sharpest knife I’ve ever used, but the absolute sharpness faded after about twenty cuts through some carrots on a plastic chopping board.

Does anyone know why it might have responded so well to a sharpening steel?

Overhoned adhesively into a straightened out foil burr edge at the apex. This can be sharp but will fold over with minimal use.

That explains that then out of interest, is what you described what butchers might hope to achieve when sharpening their knives before working through a lot soft tissue? An uncle of mine was a butcher for several decades and he used to get his knives to level of sharpness with a steel I can only aspire to at the moment, but those edges never seemed to last very long and he was constantly touching up his blades (which he didn’t seem to mind).

[Wallach]

I've got a few days off in a row here, so I decided to grab another one of my older knives to get more sharpening practice in tonight. This time it was the Kizer Assassin XL in 154CM. I treat this knife fairly poorly if I'm being honest; it's something of a beater, and one I would often keep in the car. As such, I decided to also reprofile this one to 20dps, as this is not a knife I need to be very slicey, and I've found this particular blade to roll pretty hard with the abuse its received. In fact, there was still a portion near the heel that was so far off that I would have had to basically take another entire full sharpen worth of steel to get it sharpened out. In the end I decided that probably wasn't worth it here, and I'll just sharpen it out after I get a decent amount of use out of this first sharpen. The technique I settled on was to reprofile with the 220 grit with saw motions, mostly focused on paying attention to what was actually happening on the bevels and especially watching my tip to make sure it stayed even. From 320 grit on, I went back to sweeping upward strokes going the full length from heel to tip, which seems to be helping me keep the work even. I also paid more attention to the exact clamp point, to try and keep any angle changes due to the arm pivot as small and evenly spaced as possible.

Overall this was probably my best result with the WPPA so far, with the tip remaining nice and even and the bevels coming out pretty even as well:





How often do you folks find you need to clean your stones? I noticed on the ceramic plate tonight since it shows up more easily that it has already collected a fair bit of metal dust. Dish soap should be safe to clean these with, correct?

[JoviAl]

https://idahoners.com/products/7-triang ... 2238502026

has anyone tried these? they look like they could be nice for applying quick toothy edges.

Just out of interest, what potential advantage do these give over the Spyderco CBN/Brown/Ceramics?

coarser finish, which is superior for some blades compared to higher polish.

Ah! For sure my CBN sharpmaker rods feel really coarse (similar to my 140 plates), but I don’t have anything between them and the brown rods (which I’m guessing are about a 600 grit equivalent?). Have you ordered some of those you linked earlier? If so I’d love to know how you get on. I like a dual grit edge for my outdoor work knives and a 300 or there abouts would be perfect for that.

[Deadboxhero]

On a separate note - has anyone else noticed that BD1N responds extremely well to a butcher’s steel?

I sharpened my z-cut a couple of days back and got it to hair popping sharp using my usual gear and strops. The next day it got some heavy use so I thought I’d give it a quick touch up on my butcher’s steel (just a decent quality one I bought from a commercial butcher’s supplier in Sheffield a few years back). Imagine my surprise when after a few minutes on the steel it was way sharper than when I’d previously sharpened it with all my gear (my helper cut herself badly on it and didn’t realise until I pointed out her hand was hosing blood). It was possibly the sharpest knife I’ve ever used, but the absolute sharpness faded after about twenty cuts through some carrots on a plastic chopping board.

Does anyone know why it might have responded so well to a sharpening steel?

Overhoned adhesively into a straightened out foil burr edge at the apex. This can be sharp but will fold over with minimal use.

That explains that then out of interest, is what you described what butchers might hope to achieve when sharpening their knives before working through a lot soft tissue? An uncle of mine was a butcher for several decades and he used to get his knives to level of sharpness with a steel I can only aspire to at the moment, but those edges never seemed to last very long and he was constantly touching up his blades (which he didn’t seem to mind).

It's not ideal.

Rubbing steel on steel does not remove metal and will cause some problems with stress build up (fatigue) at the edge. Also, adhesively tearing the steel is going to build up further fatigue and or damage.

It's like bending a paper clip over and over again until it's just about to break or breaks but it's your apex.

Fatigued steel at the edge creates a lower quality edge that will not have as much edge retention which you'll keep coming back to the "sharpening" steel to keep it cutting. The "sharpening" steel is essentially both the cure and cause of the frequent needing to steel.

You'll get higher performance with using abrasive methods at acute angles with good burr removal. Now combined with a consistent scratch pattern at medium grit finish and It would certainly be a superior edge in sharpness and longevity for that application.

[JoviAl]

On a separate note - has anyone else noticed that BD1N responds extremely well to a butcher’s steel?

I sharpened my z-cut a couple of days back and got it to hair popping sharp using my usual gear and strops. The next day it got some heavy use so I thought I’d give it a quick touch up on my butcher’s steel (just a decent quality one I bought from a commercial butcher’s supplier in Sheffield a few years back). Imagine my surprise when after a few minutes on the steel it was way sharper than when I’d previously sharpened it with all my gear (my helper cut herself badly on it and didn’t realise until I pointed out her hand was hosing blood). It was possibly the sharpest knife I’ve ever used, but the absolute sharpness faded after about twenty cuts through some carrots on a plastic chopping board.

Does anyone know why it might have responded so well to a sharpening steel?

Overhoned adhesively into a straightened out foil burr edge at the apex. This can be sharp but will fold over with minimal use.

That explains that then out of interest, is what you described what butchers might hope to achieve when sharpening their knives before working through a lot soft tissue? An uncle of mine was a butcher for several decades and he used to get his knives to level of sharpness with a steel I can only aspire to at the moment, but those edges never seemed to last very long and he was constantly touching up his blades (which he didn’t seem to mind).

It's not ideal.

Rubbing steel on steel does not remove metal and will cause some problems with stress build up (fatigue) at the edge. Also, adhesively tearing the steel is going to build up further fatigue and or damage.

It's like bending a paper clip over and over again until it's just about to break or breaks but it's your apex.

Fatigued steel at the edge creates a lower quality edge that will not have as much edge retention which you'll keep coming back to the "sharpening" steel to keep it cutting. The "sharpening" steel is essentially both the cure and cause of the frequent needing to steel.

You'll get higher performance with using abrasive methods at acute angles with good burr removal. Now combined with a consistent scratch pattern at medium grit finish and It would certainly be a superior edge in sharpness and longevity for that application.

Well, every day’s a school day! Thanks for the detailed explanation. Now I’m giving my sharpening steel side eye.

[Deadboxhero]

Spyderco Fine White Ceramic at 600x magnification

Small clusters ranging from as small as ~2-5um with areas of larger grains at ~10-15um

[vivi]

I agree with everything BBB wrote about sharpening steels. I've spent over two decades as a chef / cook and have played around with them plenty. Smooth steels, ribbed steels, etc.
I've never been able to, or seen anyone else that's been able to, get a better edge off a steel rod than a ceramic rod. I think they're antiquated technology people use because someone else recommended it to them. I think if you take the time to compare the results they give VS ceramic rods and diamond coated steel rods, you'll see the latter two options are superior. Abrading the apex creates a sharper and more durable edge than bending it.

https://idahoners.com/products/7-triang ... 2238502026

has anyone tried these? they look like they could be nice for applying quick toothy edges.

Just out of interest, what potential advantage do these give over the Spyderco CBN/Brown/Ceramics?

coarser finish, which is superior for some blades compared to higher polish.

Ah! For sure my CBN sharpmaker rods feel really coarse (similar to my 140 plates), but I don’t have anything between them and the brown rods (which I’m guessing are about a 600 grit equivalent?). Have you ordered some of those you linked earlier? If so I’d love to know how you get on. I like a dual grit edge for my outdoor work knives and a 300 or there abouts would be perfect for that.

I have not, but if I get some I'll post here. I have a 9" lansky diamond rod coming in, and if I like the finish I'll order a second and a turn box to use them with. They're rated at 600 grit.

My diamond sharpmaker rods are pretty old and feel around 500 grit to me. They leave a toothy edge but my harbor freight 300 and 400 grit plates leave a coarser finish.

---------------------------------------------------------------

As far as how often you should clean ceramics, it comes down to how much you value performance. If you can see embedded steel on a ceramic, it's giving you less than peak performance, period. Not a big deal on something like a round lansky rod or a sharpmaker triangle rod where you can switch sides as needed, but on a bench stone you typically only have one or two sides to gunk up before it's time to clean. Bar keepers friends + a green abrasive pad does the job nicely.

[tcarltonw]

300x Magnification
Factory Edge in a Chinese made folder in VG10 steel.

Very large chromium carbides observed which are interestingly exposed from matrix.

We can see the carbide banding which is a prominent feature in ingot steels. The banding orientation is moving parallel to the edge which is what you would want to see.

The sharpening appers to have a slight hollow grind. The bevel appears to be set with an extremely coarse grit, the steel may be softer which could also be contributing to the severe scratch depth.

A fine grit buffing step appears to have been used but the fine grit with soft backing was not enough to finish out the initial coarse grit scratches, although some convexity was added especially near the shoulder.

The final buffing step appears to have worn/polished the matrix while also exposing the chromium carbides which resisted the buffing. At the apex, some residual burr can also be seen.

Morning Shawn, do you have any tips for sharpening the upcoming ceramic mule? Trying to prep and make sure I have the correct stuff.

[horzuff]

I'd guess similarly as the "polyhedral tungsten carbide" from sandrin, so diamond lapping films or other soft base diamond abrasives, so that it doesn't chip the edge. But I might be wrong

[Traditional.Sharpening]

Not Shawn obviously, but I'd try the Atoma plates or DMT Diaflat plates for this application. If you want you could also use the bonded Diamond 'stones' like the Nano Hone/Naniwa/etc., but a perfectly flat fixed abrasive on a plate is going to get sharper in my experience than something that releases abrasives. I haven't used the bonded diamond stuff so maybe it's not enough release to matter but it's possible that it wouldn't be ideal there.