A review of the SE and PE Magnacut blades and how Spy27 measures up

[kobold]

By a BF member. Enjoy.
https://packconfig.com/review/spyderco- ... -serrated/

[Wartstein]

Nice review, and I mean REVIEW - so a write up by a guy who really used the knives over a longer period of time and in different scenarios and obviously knows what he´s talking about... so, in other words, NOT one of those "reviews" which are mostly first-impression-not-really-cutting-anything-judging-ergos-by-just-holding-the-knife...

- Only one point where I strongly disagree from my personal experience: In my use the spyderedge produces clearly better and finer feathersticks than the plain edge. But it might be just my technique, who knows.

- What I like: The notion that SE is really not bad at basic food prep, imo if one does not need "Chef level" of cutting and preparing precision in some tasks there even better (and in some worse)

- I am still not convinced that MC is necessarily the better choice over LC 200N for some folks who think this is the case.
But then I am not really in a position to talk about that, since I only know LC but not MC.
It looks like though as if they are both completely rustproof in any not super extreme condition (LC technically a bit more so), MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

[Wartstein]

And, it might sound weird, but I somehow wished I´d prefer the Native 5 LW over the Delica / Salt 2...

The Native just looks so cool and makes me immediately want to hold and use it.

In real use though "sadly" the Delica / Salt 2 undoubtedly just works better for me in that size range: In cutting performance, ergos, grip area and also due to the a bit longer edge.

[kobold]

I also agree with his conclusions. And his photography is amazing.

What's keeping me from the Delicas other than the looks, is the handle ergos, the relatively hard disassembly/reassembly and the hump. But I entertain the idea of picking up a High Performance Delica in the future.

[JoviAl]

The real takeaway from this article for me was not anything Piotr wrote (although that was interesting in its own right), but rather the photograph underneath the article of the knife in a kydex neck sheath - what a brilliant idea! That would make a sensational gift coupled with an N5 Salt for a child to take into the woods or hiking. Normally I furnish my kids with Mora Eldris neck knives, but with a folder they have the extra layer of safety of it coming out (and going back in!) folded. Time to learn how to make kydex sheathes!

[JSumm]

MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

May not nescessarily translate to better edge performance. Especially if it rolls faster than MC would chip or break down. LC's hardness is lower. My experience is it tends to like to roll when hitting hard surfaces. Doesn't mean it is not tough or not a tougher (tensile strength) steel than MC. We know LC is tougher (tensile strength) than Cruwear or especially K390. However, the latter two in my experience perfrom better at the edge and resist deformation more than LC. I think it is important to differentiate edge performance and overall steel toughness (tensile strength). Keep in mind, H1 or H2 now is probably the toughest (tensile strength) steel Spyderco produces. Likely to bend before it snaps.

[ladybug93]

all this talk is making me want to try the native chief salt even more. my native salt in lc200n is a great knife, but i don't enjoy carrying it as much as some others that have better cutting geometry. for an outdoor knife, it's great, but not really long enough for me. the native chief solves both problems by being longer, and therefore also getting thinner over a longer area toward the tip. even if i ended up not carrying it as my main backup to my belt knife, it would ride nicely in a pack as a tertiary backup at very little weight cost.

[ladybug93]

The real takeaway from this article for me was not anything Piotr wrote (although that was interesting in its own right), but rather the photograph underneath the article of the knife in a kydex neck sheath - what a brilliant idea! That would make a sensational gift coupled with an N5 Salt for a child to take into the woods or hiking. Normally I furnish my kids with Mora Eldris neck knives, but with a folder they have the extra layer of safety of it coming out (and going back in!) folded. Time to learn how to make kydex sheathes!

the eldris is such a great little knife. much cheaper gift for kids.

but, i just wanted to say you can also form the kydex to grab the hole for you and pull the blade open as you draw it. i wouldn't give the kids a version like that, but you might like it for yourself if it's legal where you live.

[JoviAl]

The real takeaway from this article for me was not anything Piotr wrote (although that was interesting in its own right), but rather the photograph underneath the article of the knife in a kydex neck sheath - what a brilliant idea! That would make a sensational gift coupled with an N5 Salt for a child to take into the woods or hiking. Normally I furnish my kids with Mora Eldris neck knives, but with a folder they have the extra layer of safety of it coming out (and going back in!) folded. Time to learn how to make kydex sheathes!

the eldris is such a great little knife. much cheaper gift for kids.

but, i just wanted to say you can also form the kydex to grab the hole for you and pull the blade open as you draw it. i wouldn't give the kids a version like that, but you might like it for yourself if it's legal where you live.

Thanks! I don’t use knives for SD but that could have other handy uses.

Re the Eldris - I agree, it is an excellent gift for kids. My 5 and 8 year olds love theirs, to the point where they baulk at having to open a folder as it seems like a hassle compared to just yanking their little mini-puuko out. I’m just looking for ‘reasons’ to buy a couple more knives truth be told

[Windward]

MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

May not nescessarily translate to better edge performance. Especially if it rolls faster than MC would chip or break down. LC's hardness is lower. My experience is it tends to like to roll when hitting hard surfaces. Doesn't mean it is not tough or not a tougher (tensile strength) steel than MC. We know LC is tougher (tensile strength) than Cruwear or especially K390. However, the latter two in my experience perfrom better at the edge and resist deformation more than LC. I think it is important to differentiate edge performance and overall steel toughness (tensile strength). Keep in mind, H1 or H2 now is probably the toughest (tensile strength) steel Spyderco produces. Likely to bend before it snaps.

From what ive experienced (plain edge) magnacut definitely holds a sharp edge longer but deforms way easier. Ive had some nasty rolls and edge deformation in magnacut that i likely wouldnt have had with lc200n. That LC is gonna dull quicker even without the deformation though. Both typically sharpened to about 17-18 dps. As a work knife i dont use them interchanegably. Something like cutting heavy boat shrink wrap is perfectlly suited to magnacut, cutting fishing line off a hard steel prop shaft i like lc200n. Anything more abusive gets serrated h1. As sal has said both good, just different. I say this all with mutliple years of hard use, and playing with edge angles on multiple lc200n blades, while only a few months on a magnacut native. Just got the manix which i look forward to putting through its paces.

[Bill1170]

MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

May not nescessarily translate to better edge performance. Especially if it rolls faster than MC would chip or break down. LC's hardness is lower. My experience is it tends to like to roll when hitting hard surfaces. Doesn't mean it is not tough or not a tougher (tensile strength) steel than MC. We know LC is tougher (tensile strength) than Cruwear or especially K390. However, the latter two in my experience perfrom better at the edge and resist deformation more than LC. I think it is important to differentiate edge performance and overall steel toughness (tensile strength). Keep in mind, H1 or H2 now is probably the toughest (tensile strength) steel Spyderco produces. Likely to bend before it snaps.

Toughness and tensile strength are different properties, not the same thing. Toughness has to do with how much deformation a material can endure without fracturing. Tensile strength has to do with how much force is needed to pull the material apart.

[JSumm]

MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

May not nescessarily translate to better edge performance. Especially if it rolls faster than MC would chip or break down. LC's hardness is lower. My experience is it tends to like to roll when hitting hard surfaces. Doesn't mean it is not tough or not a tougher (tensile strength) steel than MC. We know LC is tougher (tensile strength) than Cruwear or especially K390. However, the latter two in my experience perfrom better at the edge and resist deformation more than LC. I think it is important to differentiate edge performance and overall steel toughness (tensile strength). Keep in mind, H1 or H2 now is probably the toughest (tensile strength) steel Spyderco produces. Likely to bend before it snaps.

Toughness and tensile strength are different properties, not the same thing. Toughness has to do with how much deformation a material can endure without fracturing. Tensile strength has to do with how much force is needed to pull the material apart.

Now I may be talking out of the wrong end (I'm just a random dude that likes knives), so take what I say with a grain of salt. Typically when you see charts of toughness ratings you are seeing steels measured by tensile strength. May be the only way to scientifically test for toughness that I'm aware of. Though granted, toughness is a generic term. I think the way we often discuss it here on the forum, we are describing edge stability. Which is made of most likely several properties combined. However, when you read the data sheets on steels and the manufacturers are using the term toughness, they are typically describing tensile strength. Larrin Thomas has steels ranked by toughness and he can correct me, but I believe that is measured by tensile strength. To my knowledge, there is no edge stability testing with a scientific method. Hopefully, Dr Thomas is fast on track to find one. Steels like my personal favorite Cruwear can achieve a relatively high hardness while maintaining a very high toughness compared to other steels. These are a couple, but not all of the ingredients to get to a steel with great edge stability. It also has lower Vanadium making it easier to grind which is part of why I like it, but I'm lazy when it comes to sharpening.

So I think it is important to separate toughness (tensile strength) with edge stability. H2 and LC200N are probably some of the highest tensile strength steels Spyderco works with. However, in my very limited viewpoint of the world, I would take K390 or Cruwear over both due their ability to hold that edge with abuse to the edge (not wear).

[Bill1170]

MC has better edge holding and LC better toughness - which could potentially be used for even steeper edge angles in LC? And that would enhance edge holding of LC?

May not nescessarily translate to better edge performance. Especially if it rolls faster than MC would chip or break down. LC's hardness is lower. My experience is it tends to like to roll when hitting hard surfaces. Doesn't mean it is not tough or not a tougher (tensile strength) steel than MC. We know LC is tougher (tensile strength) than Cruwear or especially K390. However, the latter two in my experience perfrom better at the edge and resist deformation more than LC. I think it is important to differentiate edge performance and overall steel toughness (tensile strength). Keep in mind, H1 or H2 now is probably the toughest (tensile strength) steel Spyderco produces. Likely to bend before it snaps.

Toughness and tensile strength are different properties, not the same thing. Toughness has to do with how much deformation a material can endure without fracturing. Tensile strength has to do with how much force is needed to pull the material apart.

Now I may be talking out of the wrong end (I'm just a random dude that likes knives), so take what I say with a grain of salt. Typically when you see charts of toughness ratings you are seeing steels measured by tensile strength. May be the only way to scientifically test for toughness that I'm aware of. Though granted, toughness is a generic term. I think the way we often discuss it here on the forum, we are describing edge stability. Which is made of most likely several properties combined. However, when you read the data sheets on steels and the manufacturers are using the term toughness, they are typically describing tensile strength. Larrin Thomas has steels ranked by toughness and he can correct me, but I believe that is measured by tensile strength. To my knowledge, there is no edge stability testing with a scientific method. Hopefully, Dr Thomas is fast on track to find one. Steels like my personal favorite Cruwear can achieve a relatively high hardness while maintaining a very high toughness compared to other steels. These are a couple, but not all of the ingredients to get to a steel with great edge stability. It also has lower Vanadium making it easier to grind which is part of why I like it, but I'm lazy when it comes to sharpening.

So I think it is important to separate toughness (tensile strength) with edge stability. H2 and LC200N are probably some of the highest tensile strength steels Spyderco works with. However, in my very limited viewpoint of the world, I would take K390 or Cruwear over both due their ability to hold that edge with abuse to the edge (not wear).

I agree that edge stability arises from a combination of basic properties. I think of it as a collaboration between hardness and toughness, though there may be other properties involved, too.

The Charpy impact test is how toughness of steels often gets quantified. It measures a material’s resistance to brittle failure upon sudden impact loading. Notched samples are struck with a heavy pendulum until they suffer brittle failure.

Although I don’t own any Cruwear knives, its popularity with enthusiasts seems to result from a balanced blend of strength, toughness, abrasive wear-resistance, and corrosion resistance. I’ve bought a K390 SE Endura as my latest folder to explore a corner of the performance envelope that I hadn’t tried in many years. By foregoing some corrosion resistance I was able to get high wear resistance and high hardness along with better toughness than most of my stainless knives.

[JSumm]

I’ve bought a K390 SE Endura as my latest folder to explore a corner of the performance envelope that I hadn’t tried in many years. By foregoing some corrosion resistance I was able to get high wear resistance and high hardness along with better toughness than most of my stainless knives.

And even though Cruwear is a tougher steel by testing K390 I'm my experience holds up to abuse at the edge the best. As you mentioned , probably that added hardness and other things going on in the steel. If you are not worried about corrosion and a little extra focus in sharpening, it is incredible stuff.
Though honestly, Spyderco's latest Cruwear holds up pretty well too.

[Bolster]

...the native chief solves both problems by being longer, and therefore also getting thinner over a longer area toward the tip. even if i ended up not carrying it as my main backup to my belt knife, it would ride nicely in a pack as a tertiary backup at very little weight cost.

Concur. I'm thinking about the LW MagnaChief becoming my new backpacking knife, but in that case it would be my only knife. It should be able to handle a range of outdoor situations well. Perhaps not the best for delicate tip work, since the tip is 'way out there,' and not for batoning, but the choil should give it good control of the heel of the blade, which seems to be the portion of blade I use the most. Would be a fearsome close quarters weapon if pressed into that service.

[Bolster]

...Typically when you see charts of toughness ratings you are seeing steels measured by tensile strength. ..

I thought tensile strength was pulling on opposite ends of a material until it separated.

To wit, my budget, being pulled on one end by my wife and the other end by my daughter, has low tensile strength and funds separate easily from my wallet.

Whereas the Charpy is basically cracking/fracturing a material apart with a blow from the side.

Not unlike the blow my shin receives under the table, from my wife, if I accidentally start talking politics when company is over for dinner.

Most of what I've learned about strength, or the lack thereof, I've learned from my wife, so my knowledge in this area is only as good as my teacher.

[JSumm]

...Typically when you see charts of toughness ratings you are seeing steels measured by tensile strength. ..

I thought tensile strength was pulling on opposite ends of a material until it separated. But as Bill also pointed out

To wit, my budget, being pulled on one end by my wife and the other end by my daughter, has low tensile strength and funds separate easily from my wallet.

Whereas the Charpy is basically cracking/fracturing a material apart with a blow from the side.

Not unlike the blow my shin receives under the table, from my wife, if I accidentally start talking politics when company is over for dinner.

Most of what I've learned about strength, or the lack thereof, I've learned from my wife, so my knowledge in this area is only as good as my teacher.

No, you are correct. And I may be misunderstanding. I thought just in terms of steel not necessarily knife steel tensile strength and the Charpy made up the toughness question, but I may be wrong in that.

If you look at Larrins's charts. LC200N is the highest in toughness followed by Cruwear in regular production steels we see from Spyderco. But definitely not the full equation when discussing edge stability. I don't think H2 or H1 is actually on the chart. But something like K390 for me has proven better at the edge. Even SPY27 seems to be very stable at the edge. Not wear resistant but just in resisting damage.

Cannot take pure toughness and translate it into edge stability. Does that make sense or am I confusing myself (hopefully not others.).

[toomanyquestions]

And, it might sound weird, but I somehow wished I´d prefer the Native 5 LW over the Delica / Salt 2...

After reading the review I found myself wondering if a Native 5 could make it into my collection. Heretofore the Native's limited length has made me hesitate; thank you for your comments about the Delica's positives.

[toomanyquestions]

Concur. I'm thinking about the LW MagnaChief becoming my new backpacking knife, but in that case it would be my only knife. It should be able to handle a range of outdoor situations well. Perhaps not the best for delicate tip work, since the tip is 'way out there,' and not for batoning, but the choil should give it good control of the heel of the blade, which seems to be the portion of blade I use the most. Would be a fearsome close quarters weapon if pressed into that service.

Are there any threads you recommend that address hiking / backpacking knives?

(I have been thinking about the relative strengths of the Native 5 LW, Endura 4, Manix 2 LW, Chief, etc.)

And I must say, I would carry a backup/emergency knife backpacking (perhaps a Mora) - just in case something happens to your primary tool.

[toomanyquestions]

I thought tensile strength was pulling on opposite ends of a material until it separated.

To wit, my budget, being pulled on one end by my wife and the other end by my daughter, has low tensile strength and funds separate easily from my wallet.

Whereas the Charpy is basically cracking/fracturing a material apart with a blow from the side.

Not unlike the blow my shin receives under the table, from my wife, if I accidentally start talking politics when company is over for dinner.

Most of what I've learned about strength, or the lack thereof, I've learned from my wife, so my knowledge in this area is only as good as my teacher.

Best post I have seen in a long while.