Browsing through the product guide: The two middle ground models that are still missing imo

[Tristan_david2001]

I beleive there are technical and objective measurements in this scenario.

? How so ? (Honest question, I don´t know how this could be "objective", but it might be that I am missing something!)

I’ll preface by yes the standards are still general, and there’s still an aspect of subjectivity. But I think when you break it down into the type of knife in subject and its intended use, that breaks down the general size category’s for that specific type of knife, like for example, full sized chef knives are usually 8 to 12”. Throughout their history, Pocket knives, in essence are primarily meant to be compact pocketable cutting tools. And when you look at the vast amount of pocket knives, their regular size tends to be around 7” for overall length. So not small/mini but not on the larger side either. I would say in the grand scheme of edc folders, a 3.5” blade is still a “midsize” knife, since it’s only a half inch difference to the 5. but pushing into a large size knife as far as edc pocket folders go. That’s how I personally come to that conclusion. So yeah I should have explained myself a little better the first time. There’s no fixed rules for a knife’s size category. Just when you consider what any type of knife and the sizes they generally get made in, it does break it down more clearly

[wrdwrght]

Can’t say I’m looking for absences in the catalog.

I spend catalog-time arguing (with myself) what NOT to buy…probably because I’ve lost so many such arguments through the years.

[Manixguy@1994]

Can’t say I’m looking for absences in the catalog.

I spend catalog-time arguing (with myself) what NOT to buy…probably because I’ve lost so many such arguments through the years.

Sadly I have same problem ! Vaccines are unavailable . Dan

[tangent]

I agree that an Endela Salt in Magnacut would be great (or in LC200N).

Also, a Stretch 2 Salt would be cool (in Magnacut or LC200N).

Not sure why these haven’t been made yet… but hopefully some day we’ll see them.

[kennethsime]

This is a great comparison shot. I know the Millie and the S2XL are similarly-sized, so I think I’d get used to the chief.

Maybe the relatively short stature of the knife (from edge to spine) accentuates the length.

[vivi]

Yeah the point of that picture is that if you can comfortably carry an Endura, you can comfortably carry a Chief. They're basically the same length closed in person. If you look up the spec sheets you might find 1-2mm difference on paper, but lets be real, no ones noticing that in their pocket

[Wartstein]

Yeah the point of that picture is that if you can comfortably carry an Endura, you can comfortably carry a Chief. They're basically the same length closed in person. If you look up the spec sheets you might find 1-2mm difference on paper, but lets be real, no ones noticing that in their pocket

True.

And again: I CAN carry both an Endura and a Chief quite comfortably most of the times.
The Chief is just a hair longer in pocket (it´s 1 or 2 mm longer when closed and carries just a bit deeper), but as you say: Don´t think I really noticed that, but then I had my Chief only for a very short period of time.

Both though are of a length already that makes them a bit more prone to starting to get pushed out of the pocket when doing really high steps while mountaineering or being not ideal rfp /lfp when riding a bike compared to shorter models.

So that is why I said "the Chief is on the borderline of being too long" for me, and an argument for a Native between the "5" and the Chief would be, that people who love the overall concept, but find the cutting edge (and/or grip area) of the
"5" to short, but the Chief unnecessarily long (or not a legal in their area), would be happy with a Manix/Endela/PM2 sized version...
Even I would be on some days, though overall clearly preferring the Chief / Endura size for an all purpose folder.

[Wartstein]

Anyway: Out of the two "mid-" or whatever sized "missing" versions I am definitely more surprised that there isn´ t an endela-ish Seki Salt yet other than the Atlantic.

It would actually be a great option in my book to just give the Atlantic another blade option with more of a tip and a bit of belly and we´d have that variant between Salt 2 and Pac Salt in a form probably more people would gravitate to.
But I think perhaps the Atlantic is perceived as "too oldschool" in other aspects (texturing, clip...)

Here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88094 is a thread I started once about giving the Atlantic alternativ blade shapes.
As can be seen there: The Atlantic has a handle shape very much like a PM2, should offer just about the same grip area, the handle is overall just a bit shorter cause it does not "bulge" that much where the lanyard hole sits.
Also the Atlantic is superlight - 2.3 (!) oz for a 3.68 blade in the current LC version

[toomanyquestions]

Was just browsing through the newest product guide - enjoyed it a lot, as always, but to me there are two obvious, often discussed already gaps in the lineup:

2.) Midsized Native

A blade right between Native 5 and Chief would come in at pretty much exactly 3.5" and given the slimness of the overall platform a Native of that size would make for an amazing carry with still a good amount of edge to work with.

Also, the choil would make more sense than on the Native to me, cause most likely the handle behind the choil would still offer space for all four fingers even on a bit larger hands ....

That would be interesting to see. If I ever decided to beautify my Para three w/new scales, a mid-sized native or an endela would be high on my list of comely, easy-to-carry, EDC choices.

[Wartstein]

.....

That would be interesting to see. If I ever decided to beautify my Para three w/new scales, a mid-sized native or an endela would be high on my list of comely, easy-to-carry, EDC choices.

Off topic, but as always I can´t help but recommend getting and Endela in VG10 SE anyway.

Should you not have any - or not the best experiences with serrations yet, the sheer cutting performance of this model will most likely blow you away and give you a great alternative to your Para 3... pretty affordable too, so the "performance to price" - ratio is over the top imo.

[Mushroom]

I beleive there are technical and objective measurements in this scenario.

? How so ? (Honest question, I don´t know how this could be "objective", but it might be that I am missing something!)

It should go without saying that everyone is different. Ergonomics are an innately individual experience. Of course anyone can personally assign any size label to any knife they want based on their own preference or hand size.

There are still industry standards that influence how knives can be objectively categorized though. I would think we can all agree that, objectively, the Ladybug is not a large knife. In the general context of pocket knives, size is relative. (Based on an entire industries worth of examples) If we choose to dismiss these industry standards and substitute them with our own, our chosen size labels lose their meaning when everyone ends up defining things differently. For example, if I labeled the Manix 2 as a “Mini-sized” knife knowing full well it’s not a “mini knife” by any measure, the term “mini” loses its meaning. Especially when compared to an actual mini knife like the “mini Endura.” (Ladybug) These labels can quickly lose meaning if we use them all based on our own subjectivity.

That isn’t to say 3.5” knives don’t fit into the “midsized” category in general, it’s just that relative context can also influence how these labels are applied. In this case, the relative context leads to the Native 5 being the “midsized Native.”

In relation to the already established sizes of the Native family in particular: the Lil Native is the small version, the Native 5 is the “mid-sized” version, and the Native Chief is the large version. (For what it’s worth, Spyderco considers the 3.58” Shaman part of the Native family too. That’s not just my opinion.) Whether or not Spyderco can fit another 3.5” addition into the Native family is not up to us. Also, it feels hypocritical that I can’t say the Native 5 is a midsized Native but saying it’s not “midsized” is perfectly acceptable.

I know that I’m splitting hairs but obsessing over the little things is why many of us are here. Labels aside, I understand what’s being discussed is a 3.5” addition to the Native family. In the past I’ve expressed how I don’t believe another addition to the Native family should be a priority on Spydercos list of “gaps” to fill in their catalog because I don’t believe it is a gap in their catalog to begin with. If the Golden factory outlet expansion ends up creating enough production capacity to support so many slight variations of the models they make, then more power to them. In that case a 2.5” Military, 2.5” Manix, and 3.5” Yojimbo are also potential “gaps” they could fill. Maybe even a wholly new design can sneak its way in there too!

In regards to a Salt version of the Endela, that feels like an inevitability to me. It might not happen soon but it’s definitely something I can see happening eventually.

[vivi]

double tap

[vivi]

Cold Steel Mini Recon 1 Spear Point Tri-Ad Lock Knife - cutting edge 2.75"

SOG Salute Mini Lockback Knife - cutting edge 2.875"

Benchmade Mini Adamas AXIS Lock Knife Black G-10 - cutting edge 3.25"

Benchmade Mini Bugout AXIS Lock Knife - cutting edge 2.75"

CIVIVI Mini Asticus Liner Lock Knife Black Rubbed Copper - cutting edge 3"

Benchmade Mini Griptilian Axis Lock Knife Black - cutting edge 2.91"

TuffKnives Geoff Blauvelt Custom Slimfoot Mini Knife - cutting edge 3"

Benchmade Mini Crooked River AXIS Lock Knife Dymondwood - cutting edge 3.25"

Spyderco "not a “mini knife” by any measure" Manix 2 Knife Tactical G-10 - cutting edge 2.88"

[Mushroom]

Perfect examples of how the word “mini” can quickly lose all meaning. Thank you for further supporting what I was saying!

[Tristan_david2001]

Cold Steel Mini Recon 1 Spear Point Tri-Ad Lock Knife - cutting edge 2.75"

SOG Salute Mini Lockback Knife - cutting edge 2.875"

Benchmade Mini Adamas AXIS Lock Knife Black G-10 - cutting edge 3.25"

Benchmade Mini Bugout AXIS Lock Knife - cutting edge 2.75"

CIVIVI Mini Asticus Liner Lock Knife Black Rubbed Copper - cutting edge 3"

Benchmade Mini Griptilian Axis Lock Knife Black - cutting edge 2.91"

TuffKnives Geoff Blauvelt Custom Slimfoot Mini Knife - cutting edge 3"

Benchmade Mini Crooked River AXIS Lock Knife Dymondwood - cutting edge 3.25"

Spyderco "not a “mini knife” by any measure" Manix 2 Knife Tactical G-10 - cutting edge 2.88"

Most of those seem to be “mini versions” of large tactical oriented folding knives so there’s that. Every company and manufacturer will have a slightly different perspective on what should be titled a mini folder. But for spyderco it’s pretty clearly their mid range sized folders are around 7” oal and about 3” of blade just by looking at the pattern of what they’ve produced and designed. spyderco came out of the gate producing mid-size folders. With the worker/hunter/delica models. The first mini or small spyderco folder was essentially the dragonfly

[Wartstein]

......

Most of those seem to be “mini versions” of large tactical oriented folding knives so there’s that. Every company and manufacturer will have a slightly different perspective on what should be titled a mini folder. But for spyderco it’s pretty clearly their mid range sized folders are around 7” oal and about 3” of blade just by looking at the pattern of what they’ve produced and designed. spyderco came out of the gate producing mid-size folders. With the worker/hunter/delica models. The first mini or small spyderco folder was essentially the dragonfly

This is also a reply to your reply to me in your previous post above, thanks for that one.

Now I don´t want to go into the "what is literally "mini" debate", since I think the term "mini" can be interpreted differently in itself.
But I figure in case there is a large version and a small version of a knife, there are reasons to call the smaller a "mini" of the larger. Just how I use "words and language", but I am not even a Native speaker in English and rarely ever can actually talk to one (just here... kind of )

I respectfully and honestly disagree though with what you say above:

To me it really seems like in Spydercos lineup the PM2, Manix 2, Endela, Stretch... - sized folders are "mid sized" among their general EDC folders.
And Delica, Native 5, Para 3... small
Endura, Millie, Chief... large.

If one asked me about choosing a general EDC folder out of lets say Endura or Millie family, I´d probably literally say: "If the Para 3 / Delica is too small for you, but the Millie / Endura too big, go with the MID sized version PM2 or Endela"... while in the "Native" family there is a gap there (unless the Shaman "counts").

This approach seems also be supported by how many options / models Spyderco offers in this particulat three size ranges.

Smaller (DFly, Lil Native...) and larger (Police...) in my personal book are a bit "outliers" and special knives either in the very small or very large direction (Vivi will disagree )

Still I think this all is pretty subjective - after all for ME in my totally personal use PM2 / Manix / Endela are small, and Endura / Chief the "normal" size.

[kobold]

Small means 3", mid means 3.5" and large means 4" IME. But on this forum maybe it's better to use numbers, such as the 3.5" Native and save a lot of time by doing so.

[Tristan_david2001]

......

Most of those seem to be “mini versions” of large tactical oriented folding knives so there’s that. Every company and manufacturer will have a slightly different perspective on what should be titled a mini folder. But for spyderco it’s pretty clearly their mid range sized folders are around 7” oal and about 3” of blade just by looking at the pattern of what they’ve produced and designed. spyderco came out of the gate producing mid-size folders. With the worker/hunter/delica models. The first mini or small spyderco folder was essentially the dragonfly

This is also a reply to your reply to me in your previous post above, thanks for that one.

Now I don´t want to go into the "what is literally "mini" debate", since I think the term "mini" can be interpreted differently in itself.
But I figure in case there is a large version and a small version of a knife, there are reasons to call the smaller a "mini" of the larger. Just how I use "words and language", but I am not even a Native speaker in English and rarely ever can actually talk to one (just here... kind of )

I respectfully and honestly disagree though with what you say above:

To me it really seems like in Spydercos lineup the PM2, Manix 2, Endela, Stretch... - sized folders are "mid sized" among their general EDC folders.
And Delica, Native 5, Para 3... small
Endura, Millie, Chief... large.

If one asked me about choosing a general EDC folder out of lets say Endura or Millie family, I´d probably literally say: "If the Para 3 / Delica is too small for you, but the Millie / Endura too big, go with the MID sized version PM2 or Endela"... while in the "Native" family there is a gap there (unless the Shaman "counts").

This approach seems also be supported by how many options / models Spyderco offers in this particulat three size ranges.

Smaller (DFly, Lil Native...) and larger (Police...) in my personal book are a bit "outliers" and special knives either in the very small or very large direction (Vivi will disagree )

Still I think this all is pretty subjective - after all for ME in my totally personal use PM2 / Manix / Endela are small, and Endura / Chief the "normal" size.

So the delica to you is a tiny folder if the endela is a “small” model ? Okay. Respectfully disagree..

[LeDe]

I would think most people would agree that knife "sizes" are subjectives (S, M, L not the actual size obviously).
So this is important when using them to put that into context.
Warstein, being a generous man with words, gave us 2 knives everybody here know and ask for a "medium" size knife between those 2 lengths.
To try and make sure, we would not be mistaken, he gave us another example of a full family, where Spyderco created a "medium" size knife (Endela) in between the 2 original sizes (Delica and Endela).

Obviously this was not clear enough... i am curious how many pages we can keep debating what is a "medium" size knife.

To answer the original question, I think I'd be more interested in a Salt Endela than a "medium" size Native as I am yet convinced I can like a choil. But I have had my first Native for a week and liking it so ...

[JSumm]

Right on.

I would love to know which size are the hot sellers for Spyderco. Bolster could probably provide a small glympse of what may be a popular size. I think an Endela Salt would be pretty popular, but that is just a guess. I would assume if the PM2, Endela, Manix 2 range are great sellers than Spyderco eventually would want to take advantage of that and add more models in that range. If they are not top sellers, than they probably should leave it be.

I would like to see more models in that range personally. I think Nick brings up a great point, that we do not want wholely new models sitting in a prototype case collecting dust. Let's see what the expansion can bring. Keeping core product stocked, adding additional variations, and producing who.