Martial Arts Experiences Discussion Thread

[James Y]

"Prisoners Are Training: Are You?!"

https://youtu.be/GH97PAgzK_A?si=t6uxyvaWjzLWgoQi

Jim

[Naperville]

Interesting video. I just assumed that prisoners trained in prison. I never saw videos of them doing it before.

There were at least 10 guys that lived within 1/4 mile of me when I was growing up (under 21 years of age) that would demolish you if they saw you and could get close. You would get a haymaker in the head. They attacked everyone. I lived with my head on a swivel for years. They all went to prison, died, or had/have serious mental health issues. Pure predators.

[twinboysdad]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

[James Y]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

I thought that combination he did was a bit too complicated, but I’m not an FMA practitioner, if that even was FMA. At least for myself, when it comes to actual SD, I keep things simple.

OTOH, I also know not to underestimate anyone. So as to his flow drill, I have no opinion one way or the other. It’s also very possible that he actually does train in clinch range, and engages in live clinch drilling. All we are seeing here is what he’s showing on camera in this video. And towards the end, he does show a knee to the face/head counter.

The big takeaway from this video should be that prisoners do train in prison. Back in the ‘90s, an acquaintance of mine who had worked as a prison guard told me he had seen it happen on occasion. They don’t have actual knives, but can make shanks. And sometimes prisoners practiced with each other in slow motion, mimicking the movements they would use with a shank, without having anything in their hands. He said it looked like slow dancing, either alone or sometimes with another convict. But he could see that they were rehearsing the moves they would use to set someone up and take them out. The movements had a clear purpose. The moves this prison guard described were much simpler than the ones shown in the video, but they did have exact set moves, targeting vital areas. They were in full view in a corner of the prison yard, but there was nothing that could be done about it, because they were just making fluid, slow-motion movements in the air, like exercising. They were etching the movements into their nervous systems, so that when the time came to go full-speed for real, the movements would already be ingrained into their muscle memory.

People, especially those who train in martial arts (ANY type of martial arts), might be surprised at what some people with few resources can develop with a lot of free time and determination. This is not an endorsement of, or admiration for criminals at all; it’s simply a fact of life that some people, because of their environments, can make themselves more dangerous, with or without a lot of actual formal training; but training that, at its core, mimics what martial artists have quietly done for centuries in places where practicing martial arts were forbidden.

The types of practice they do behind bars might sound silly to many, but these are the types of people who might target you someday, if and when they ever get out. Not referring to YOU, twinboysdad, but a general "you," as in anyone.

Jim

[James Y]

"Man Thinks He's Being Attacked by Man Who Fell / What Would You Do?"

https://youtube.com/shorts/sAHxccMqjjI?si=GPBFB5YtakiEgEfa

TBH, I have no idea what I would have done, or if I'd have reacted any differently. I watched this video over and over again. At first, I thought the guy who fell just tripped and accidentally touched the other guy on the way down.

But on closer examination, it also looks like he could have been intending to snatch whatever was in the other guy's right hand, and tripped. I'm not saying that was his intention. The only person who knows for certain was the guy who got kicked himself.

If it was a genuine misunderstanding caused by an accidental fall, I feel bad for the guy who fell and got kicked, but I don't really blame the other guy too much, at least for the first kick. On the other hand, if the guy who fell had been intending to snatch the other guy's property, I wouldn’t feel too sorry for him.

Jim

[Naperville]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

I agree up to a point, he did show that the guy threw a punch though. But you may not be able to throw a knee in time.

As has been said before, you see or think of something, some move, and then play with it. Test it. I think Vunak said that "Let's play with it."

The sequence of strikes may work but if the primary target is the groin and the blood vessels in the groin then I'd dive in and hit them first. The problem with most FMA (all martial arts in truth do this) is that they think people will stand still while somebody comes in and does X, Y, Z. This I agree with you 100%, it just isn't likely. I've seen every Grand Master, Master and Guro of every martial art make similar claims.

A practitioner may find somebody completely flat footed but if they are already attacking you I have my doubts. You may cut one knee and that is it, but why waste your time with a knee? If this were a game and the inside of the knee was worth 2 points, and the groin was worth 9 points, you target the groin.

[twinboysdad]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

I thought that combination he did was a bit too complicated, but I’m not an FMA practitioner, if that even was FMA. At least for myself, when it comes to actual SD, I keep things simple.

OTOH, I also know not to underestimate anyone. So as to his flow drill, I have no opinion one way or the other. It’s also very possible that he actually does train in clinch range, and engages in live clinch drilling. All we are seeing here is what he’s showing on camera in this video. And towards the end, he does show a knee to the face/head counter.

The big takeaway from this video should be that prisoners do train in prison. Back in the ‘90s, an acquaintance of mine who had worked as a prison guard told me he had seen it happen on occasion. They don’t have actual knives, but can make shanks. And sometimes prisoners practiced with each other in slow motion, mimicking the movements they would use with a shank, without having anything in their hands. He said it looked like slow dancing, either alone or sometimes with another convict. But he could see that they were rehearsing the moves they would use to set someone up and take them out. The movements had a clear purpose. The moves this prison guard described were much simpler than the ones shown in the video, but they did have exact set moves, targeting vital areas. They were in full view in a corner of the prison yard, but there was nothing that could be done about it, because they were just making fluid, slow-motion movements in the air, like exercising. They were etching the movements into their nervous systems, so that when the time came to go full-speed for real, the movements would already be ingrained into their muscle memory.

People, especially those who train in martial arts (ANY type of martial arts), might be surprised at what some people with few resources can develop with a lot of free time and determination. This is not an endorsement of, or admiration for criminals at all; it’s simply a fact of life that some people, because of their environments, can make themselves more dangerous, with or without a lot of actual formal training; but training that, at its core, mimics what martial artists have quietly done for centuries in places where practicing martial arts were forbidden.

The types of practice they do behind bars might sound silly to many, but these are the types of people who might target you someday, if and when they ever get out. Not referring to YOU, twinboysdad, but a general "you," as in anyone.

Jim

Really good post. I have heard similar that gangs in prison workout as a unit and that they have almost like katas and as soon as someone is watching they stop. Even practicing an eye rake before a sewing machine edge weapon attack is practicing something

[twinboysdad]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

I agree up to a point, he did show that the guy threw a punch though. But you may not be able to throw a knee in time.

As has been said before, you see or think of something, some move, and then play with it. Test it. I think Vunak said that "Let's play with it."

The sequence of strikes may work but if the primary target is the groin and the blood vessels in the groin then I'd dive in and hit them first. The problem with most FMA (all martial arts in truth do this) is that they think people will stand still while somebody comes in and does X, Y, Z. This I agree with you 100%, it just isn't likely. I've seen every Grand Master, Master and Guro of every martial art make similar claims.

A practitioner may find somebody completely flat footed but if they are already attacking you I have my doubts. You may cut one knee and that is it, but why waste your time with a knee? If this were a game and the inside of the knee was worth 2 points, and the groin was worth 9 points, you target the groin.

I have mentioned before having a son who is a high school (year round with club) wrestler and watching them drill certain things like a snap down-go behind and knowing very few wrestlers snap their opponent onto all fours, bothers me when it’s allowed by coaches. Gable Steveson is one of the very few wrestlers powerful enough to repeatedly snap someone down to all fours, he’s an anomaly. So drilling it with your opponent “going to all fours like a hydraulic press” pushed them down is just inauthentic and as soon as they go LIVE it gets tossed out the window. A snap sets up a shot and a snap timed right can chain into a front headlock go behind, but a snap where the opponent is put on all fours as a result of your powerful snap is just a rarity. So seeing drilling where the opponent offers an inauthentic response just puts a burr under my saddle because I have seen 15 minutes sweated on a technique that when run live doesn’t work 15 minutes later

[vivi]

prochazka vs pereira tonight. gonna be a treat.

[Naperville]

I’m sorry but all those flow FMA drills look like the same TMA stuff that goes out the window when it is for real. The prisoner with no weapon just allowing some dude to dive at his groin and slice him up? Try that with knee to the face allowed. Any training that doesn’t include clinch range and live clinch drilling is incomplete in my mind.

I agree up to a point, he did show that the guy threw a punch though. But you may not be able to throw a knee in time.

As has been said before, you see or think of something, some move, and then play with it. Test it. I think Vunak said that "Let's play with it."

The sequence of strikes may work but if the primary target is the groin and the blood vessels in the groin then I'd dive in and hit them first. The problem with most FMA (all martial arts in truth do this) is that they think people will stand still while somebody comes in and does X, Y, Z. This I agree with you 100%, it just isn't likely. I've seen every Grand Master, Master and Guro of every martial art make similar claims.

A practitioner may find somebody completely flat footed but if they are already attacking you I have my doubts. You may cut one knee and that is it, but why waste your time with a knee? If this were a game and the inside of the knee was worth 2 points, and the groin was worth 9 points, you target the groin.

I have mentioned before having a son who is a high school (year round with club) wrestler and watching them drill certain things like a snap down-go behind and knowing very few wrestlers snap their opponent onto all fours, bothers me when it’s allowed by coaches. Gable Steveson is one of the very few wrestlers powerful enough to repeatedly snap someone down to all fours, he’s an anomaly. So drilling it with your opponent “going to all fours like a hydraulic press” pushed them down is just inauthentic and as soon as they go LIVE it gets tossed out the window. A snap sets up a shot and a snap timed right can chain into a front headlock go behind, but a snap where the opponent is put on all fours as a result of your powerful snap is just a rarity. So seeing drilling where the opponent offers an inauthentic response just puts a burr under my saddle because I have seen 15 minutes sweated on a technique that when run live doesn’t work 15 minutes later

This is a public forum and I cannot say what I'd like too regarding most past instructors or techniques. I do not need the headaches. I do not speak to many of my prior instructors. Some were excellent martial artists and others not as good. Some were excellent people and others not as good, some awful/corrupt. Some brilliant, some ignorant.

All of this comes with "the hobby" or "the life" in martial arts, and I suppose it goes for a number of other areas of life too.

I had one instructor get mad at me for not working for one of his black belt students after the student bankrupted me and caused me to incur a bankruptcy. He thought he knew everything about the situation, but did not. I let it go.

Find another instructors ASAP is the best recommendation that I can give you. Find somebody who has the talent on the mat and forget about all other attributes you run into. You are there for what is on the mat, and nothing else in some cases.

[Naperville]

prochazka vs pereira tonight. gonna be a treat.

Thanx!

I'll follow along on Twitter and YouTube for FREE if I can.

[Naperville]

UFC 295 FREE fights for now

https://youtu.be/I9b-kh_KadE

https://youtu.be/I9b-kh_KadE

[Naperville]

prochazka vs pereira tonight. gonna be a treat.

Early stoppage. Maybe too early.

[VashHash]

A lot of times in martial arts training it's easy to look from the outside and say what you would do(or that wouldn't work). I've seen in person where someone questioned a technique so the teacher performed it at full speed. The what if totally disappeared at full speed but it's hard to learn at full speed. A lot of training has to be done at stand still and someone standing in place throwing a punch with no energy isn't realistic. Most people don't just stand in front of you motionless jabbing or throwing hooks. Again you have to learn the techniques before you do it full force and speed. "IF" only works in the class room where you have time to think.

[Naperville]

A lot of times in martial arts training it's easy to look from the outside and say what you would do(or that wouldn't work). I've seen in person where someone questioned a technique so the teacher performed it at full speed. The what if totally disappeared at full speed but it's hard to learn at full speed. A lot of training has to be done at stand still and someone standing in place throwing a punch with no energy isn't realistic. Most people don't just stand in front of you motionless jabbing or throwing hooks. Again you have to learn the techniques before you do it full force and speed. "IF" only works in the class room where you have time to think.

On that I completely agree.

[Naperville]

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 1
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/14/alt ... art-1-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 2
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/15/alt ... art-2-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 3
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/16/alt ... art-3-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 4
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/17/alt ... -4-by-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 5
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/18/alt ... art-5-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 6
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/19/alt ... art-6-j-m/

[James Y]

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 1
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/14/alt ... art-1-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 2
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/15/alt ... art-2-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 3
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/16/alt ... art-3-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 4
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/17/alt ... -4-by-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 5
https://survivalblog.com/2023/11/18/alt ... art-5-j-m/

Alternative and Improvised Weapons – Part 6
Link to be posted tomorrow

Thanks for posting these.

Jim

[James Y]

The yellow wording at the top says "Trained his leg Kung Fu for 20 years; the king of Northern Leg."

This would make a great training sequence near the end of a Kung Fu movie, as the main character is finishing up his training to face the arch-villain, right before the final fight scene.

https://youtube.com/shorts/cuIS-iv06Do?si=9kLyQ4C5cbfvexUA

Jim

[James Y]

Sports Rules Can Destroy Personal Expressions & the Evolution of Martial Arts

I totally agree with this video, and it applies to more than only Judo. For example: IMO, whenever martial arts (Judo, Tae Kwon Do, or Karate) become Olympic sports, it pretty much ruins them. At least when the emphasis starts heavily conforming to Olympic-style rulesets.

https://youtu.be/hE4D1MaUyZY?si=fAyRhVCwncdTgeR6

Jim

[Skywalker]

I have mentioned before having a son who is a high school (year round with club) wrestler and watching them drill certain things like a snap down-go behind and knowing very few wrestlers snap their opponent onto all fours, bothers me when it’s allowed by coaches. Gable Steveson is one of the very few wrestlers powerful enough to repeatedly snap someone down to all fours, he’s an anomaly. So drilling it with your opponent “going to all fours like a hydraulic press” pushed them down is just inauthentic and as soon as they go LIVE it gets tossed out the window. A snap sets up a shot and a snap timed right can chain into a front headlock go behind, but a snap where the opponent is put on all fours as a result of your powerful snap is just a rarity. So seeing drilling where the opponent offers an inauthentic response just puts a burr under my saddle because I have seen 15 minutes sweated on a technique that when run live doesn’t work 15 minutes later

I train BJJ and on the one hand, I get where you're coming from on spending time training things that don't often happen as idealized in drilling.

On the other hand, sometimes those attacks are used to force other reactions, and if you can't seriously threaten with the first attack eventually your opponent will figure that out and stop responding the way you need to set up the next attack. I'm not much of a wrestler but it sounds like there are various chains you can work towards from the snapdown, and I imagine a weak, half-a***d snapdown attempt to start is not conducive to success.


For a BJJ example of something similar, I like to hit head and arm chokes from mount. In order to get one of my opponent's arms above their head, I'll often start to set up an Ezekiel choke, so they'll at least put their hands to their neck to defend, then pry an arm loose and work to the head and arm from there.

I'm not great at Ezekiels but I do seriously go for them here and occasionally I get a tap before transitioning to the head and arm. If I don't seriously go for it, I'm going to get swept or they just won't respect it and I won't get the reaction I want.