Spyderco Swayback Question

[Mister Coffee]

I just picked up a Spyderco Swayback from KnivesShipFree. Beautiful knife. I like it very much.

Question: The screws on the lock bar insert are not flush. When opening the knife, the pivot-end of the blade slides off the screw heads and hits end of the lock bar before clearing the lock bar entirely.

Is this normal for the Swayback? Thanks.



(I have a 16-sec cellphone video in which you can hear the "step down" of the blade as it opens. The extension is .MOV. I don't know how to upload it here.)

[Skar]

I suppose mine does do this as well. I really didn’t notice until I opened it slowly.
Honestly I almost always open this knife quickly and haven’t noticed this.

On my example it’s not the screws it’s a small detent pin. This knife is Goldilocks for me, hate that it’s out of production.

[Coastal]

I never noticed it until you mentioned it. It appears to be a detent ball rather than a screw, or in any case, a design choice rather than a defect.

[olditguy]

Detent ball. Carrying mine today and I just love this thing. Chicago Knife Works still has them in stock for 185.00 by the way.

[Mister Coffee]

On my example it’s not the screws it’s a small detent pin. This knife is Goldilocks for me, hate that it’s out of production.

I never noticed it until you mentioned it. It appears to be a detent ball rather than a screw, or in any case, a design choice rather than a defect.

Detent ball. Carrying mine today and I just love this thing. Chicago Knife Works still has them in stock for 185.00 by the way.

Thanks, gents. After looking at it for a tenth time, I see that you are right. While the screws look raised and not flush, they are at no time touching the end of the knife. It is, as you have observed, when the travel of the knife reaches the detent ball that one feels a "step down" kind of feeling in the action as the blade completes the opening travel.

I did not know about this detent ball, and I would never have thought that any design would put such a thing in that position. Since it appears to be "normal" for the Spyderco Swayback, I will have no further concerns. But isn't this design going to put wear on the end of the blade?

I like this knife very much. It goes well with my SpydieChef.

[Ramonade]

I just tried on mine and the only thing the blade is able to touch is the detent ball. It is made to keep the blade close when you're not using it. The position of the screws make it impossible for the blade to touch them, or they are really, really loose !
Thought, after the blade drops from the detent ball, it does indeed hit the lockbar right before locking up in open position. That makes 2 sounds, which are sometimes referred as "double clutch" if I'm not mistaken.



PS : just about every linerlocks and framelock possess a detent ball to keep the blade close and offer resistance to the opening, propulsing the blade out when flicked

[Mister Coffee]

@Ramonade: My detent ball is not in that position. It's at the pivot-end of the lock bar insert.

[Skar]

I don’t know if any wear will be noticed or when if there is any.

[Mister Coffee]

By the way, you can see in this picture how those screw heads are raised, not flush. But I was mistaken in my OP. The blade does not touch the screw heads at any time.

[Mister Coffee]

I don’t know if any wear will be noticed or when if there is any.

Is it possible that the ball detent is designed to create less wear (on the end of the lock bar)?

[Ramonade]

I don’t know if any wear will be noticed or when if there is any.

Is it possible that the ball detent is designed to create less wear (on the end of the lock bar)?

It exists for the blade to "glide" on the detent ball while opening and closing. I have folders with linerlock, compression lock or framelock without detent and the closing and opening movement is less smooth.

A detent ball has several missions :
- Keeping the blade close as well as it can
- Creating a build-up when opening, shooting the blade out (not meant for that in many designs, but when flicking is a sale argument, it counts)
- Giving the blade something to "ride" on when going from closed to open position and from open to closed position. It reduces friction compared to a flat surface rubbing against another flat surface.
- Maybe something else I forgot to list !

Here's a couple of pictures of my Swayback disassembled, and of the Mantra 1 which has a steel insert in the titanium lockbar too. Btw the wear depends on the detent ball material. If the detent ball is made for steel, it's usually the ball that will wear and have a flat spot over time (I've seen the detent ball of a Spyderco Advocate totally flat, nothing coming out of the lockbar). If it is made from ceramic, it'll slowly wear a track on the steel of the blade, but I have a knife I opened and closed thousands of times over 10 years and there is no big groove created by the detent ball. You can feel that there is a track with your fingernail but it's way less than 0.1mm deep.

[Mister Coffee]

@Romanade: Thank you for your post and your pictures. I don't trust my eyes anymore. Every time I look at this knife, I see something else. My post above (about the detent ball) is evidently incorrect. My lock bar insert must be the same as yours. How could it not be?

To sum up: As you open the knife, the blade slips off the detent ball. You feel a pronounced "step down." Then, the blade travels further and slips off the lock bar entirely. I can't believe that I am the only person that noticed this and thought anything of it, but I couldn't find a single YouTube video where someone opens the Swayback slowly enough to capture this "step down." Not even Nick Shabazz made note of this characteristic of the knife, and he usually has an eye for every detail.

[Mushroom]

@Romanade: Thank you for your post and your pictures. I don't trust my eyes anymore. Every time I look at this knife, I see something else. My post above (about the detent ball) is evidently incorrect. My lock bar insert must be the same as yours. How could it not be?

To sum up: As you open the knife, the blade slips off the detent ball. You feel a pronounced "step down." Then, the blade travels further and slips off the lock bar entirely. I can't believe that I am the only person that noticed this and thought anything of it, but I couldn't find a single YouTube video where someone opens the Swayback slowly enough to capture this "step down." Not even Nick Shabazz made note of this characteristic of the knife, and he usually has an eye for every detail.

This is not unique to the Swayback. It’s a common characteristic of liner based lock types. (Frame lock, liner lock, or compression lock) These locks utilize the innate horizontal pressure of the lock bar and a seated ball bearing to help keep the blade closed.

[Mister Coffee]

This is not unique to the Swayback. It’s a common characteristic of liner based lock types. (Frame lock, liner lock, or compression lock) These locks utilize the innate horizontal pressure of the lock bar and a seated ball bearing to help keep the blade closed.

Agreed. The SpydieChef has the same type of design, and it has a "step down" in its actuation. Perhaps I was thrown because the step seems a little more pronounced on the Swayback.

I'm sorry I started this thread. I feel like an idiot. [insert idiot smiley face here]

[olditguy]

No reason to feel that way. You had a valid concern and we ended up with some great pics!

[Ramonade]

No worries Mister Coffee, it's better to ask questions than have mistrust or anguish about your knife .
You were polite and respectful, that's all we can ask here :) The rest is fair game

[Mushroom]

This is not unique to the Swayback. It’s a common characteristic of liner based lock types. (Frame lock, liner lock, or compression lock) These locks utilize the innate horizontal pressure of the lock bar and a seated ball bearing to help keep the blade closed.

Agreed. The SpydieChef has the same type of design, and it has a "step down" in its actuation. Perhaps I was thrown because the step seems a little more pronounced on the Swayback.

I'm sorry I started this thread. I feel like an idiot. [insert idiot smiley face here]

No need for an apology, theres nothing wrong with asking questions. This thread lead to a lot of good information being shared and it could prove useful to others with similar concerns.

[Mister Coffee]

Thank you, gentlemen. You are very gracious. My own embarrassment aside, it doesn't help the brand to have a dummy like me post incorrect information on the Internet, even if it is in the form of a question. You know how the Internet is. My only excuse, as I have said, is that I literally could not see (poor eyesight) that there was a detent ball on the lock bar insert. I will try to do better next time. Cheers.

[Donut]

This is definitely a pro-learning place. Thanks for asking the question. I'm sure a lot of people can learn from the information in this thread.

I don't own a Swayback, I'm glad to see the construction of it. I'm a little surprised with the size of the screw heads on the lock bar insert (and the blade). Some manufacturers just harden the titanium a little and sometimes you get sticking between titanium and steel.

I have a knife from another manufacturer where they cut a little ramp/notch so that the detent ball won't "fall" off. I thought it was weird at first when I compared it to the rest of my knives.

[Mister Coffee]

I am really happy with this knife. I didn't think it would be right for me because I'm not a warncliff kind of a guy, but, boy, is this thing growing on me. Placing it next to the SpydieChef, which I love, really clinched it for me. Great materials and well-made.

By the way, I paid $179 OTD, and I think the Spyderco Swayback is miles better than something like the Jason Clark Custom Swayback in the same steel for $500 (used condition). Many miles better.