Knife trends you just don't understand?

[legOFwhat?]

Tools with knives

Leatherman Arc dropping tomorrow. I’ll be getting one.

not really what I meant.....

[_centurio_]

I'd be all about some 440C spydies, especially if it meant saving 15-20% vs S30V models. I enjoy steels like that, which is one reason I'm excited about the Chief LW in BD1N.

I feel you. I bet a lot of the people can't sharpen/use these high end super alloys to achieve extended potential. This is not an offense to anyone but a thesis of mine.

You can even blunt CPM 15V relatively fast when cutting cardboard. And if you are using your knives for other purposes (cutting packages, foods, woods,...) Steel choice alone will not achieve significant performance increase.

You may not see much difference in real world use between let's say BD1N and M390/CPM 10V. But ease of sharpening/using appropriate sharpening media for lower end steels is much better/easier, and cheaper.

Cliff Stamp (may he rest in peace) made a video about that topic (cutting dirty rope with low vs. High end steel) years ago. You may only see significant performance difference when having clean, very controlled (laboratory environment) cutting.

I love Spyderco for offering so much new High End steel options, and a lot of people enjoy trying new steels all the time. That is great. But I would like to see popular models (f.e. PM2, Manix, Shaman,...) with G10 handles but steels like BD1N, N690, 440C, 154CM,...like 10 to 15 years ago.

Knives are tools. Spyderco Knives are tools with superb ergos and good blade geometries; Easier to sharpen, balanced steels would make much more sense (even S30V because of its relatively high V content in comparison to f.e. N690, is not that well suited IMO).

No offense, also trying new stuff is OK and maybe needed fore some, but I would go on with lower carbide volume steels, to be more specific low Vanadium content.

BR Oliver

[Paul Ardbeg]

I'd be all about some 440C spydies, especially if it meant saving 15-20% vs S30V models. I enjoy steels like that, which is one reason I'm excited about the Chief LW in BD1N.

I feel you. I bet a lot of the people can't sharpen/use these high end super alloys to achieve extended potential. This is not an offense to anyone but a thesis of mine.

You can even blunt CPM 15V relatively fast when cutting cardboard. And if you are using your knives for other purposes (cutting packages, foods, woods,...) Steel choice alone will not achieve significant performance increase.

You may not see much difference in real world use between let's say BD1N and M390/CPM 10V. But ease of sharpening/using appropriate sharpening media for lower end steels is much better/easier, and cheaper.

Cliff Stamp (may he rest in peace) made a video about that topic (cutting dirty rope with low vs. High end steel) years ago. You may only see significant performance difference when having clean, very controlled (laboratory environment) cutting.

I love Spyderco for offering so much new High End steel options, and a lot of people enjoy trying new steels all the time. That is great. But I would like to see popular models (f.e. PM2, Manix, Shaman,...) with G10 handles but steels like BD1N, N690, 440C, 154CM,...like 10 to 15 years ago.

Knives are tools. Spyderco Knives are tools with superb ergos and good blade geometries; Easier to sharpen, balanced steels would make much more sense (even S30V because of its relatively high V content in comparison to f.e. N690, is not that well suited IMO).

No offense, also trying new stuff is OK and maybe needed fore some, but I would go on with lower carbide volume steels, to be more specific low Vanadium content.

BR Oliver

Cedric and Ada, one of favorite YT channels, uses a rope cutting test to show the difference in knife steel's. Of course we cannot forget about factors like geometry, heat treatment, etc, but overall knife steel can make a great difference.

[_centurio_]

Cedric and Ada, one of favorite YT channels, uses a rope cutting test to show the difference in knife steel's. Of course we cannot forget about factors like geometry, heat treatment, etc, but overall knife steel can make a great difference.

Hi, I am very aware of his and other channels and appreciate the work, time and energy they put into their tests and videos.

As speaking of the rope cut tests, Cedric used the 15V PM2 with factory edge and got great results. My problem is that exact thing I mentioned. The rope was clean, out of the box. This is good for comparing theoretical edge retention of different steels.

No one cuts tons of clean, same type of rope all day. I cut a big, dirty cardboard box with my 15V Shaman factory edge and it went dull.

My point is that we should focus on real world use, ease of sharpening and balanced steels. You get better results/benefits with lower end steels in real world use. They are uncool but work. They have worked for decades and longer.

I do enjoy high end steels also, but there are too few options for high end knives using lower end steels.

BR Oliver

[Paul Ardbeg]

Cedric and Ada, one of favorite YT channels, uses a rope cutting test to show the difference in knife steel's. Of course we cannot forget about factors like geometry, heat treatment, etc, but overall knife steel can make a great difference.

Hi, I am very aware of his and other channels and appreciate the work, time and energy they put into their tests and videos.

As speaking of the rope cut tests, Cedric used the 15V PM2 with factory edge and got great results. My problem is that exact thing I mentioned. The rope was clean, out of the box. This is good for comparing theoretical edge retention of different steels.

No one cuts tons of clean, same type of rope all day. I cut a big, dirty cardboard box with my 15V Shaman factory edge and it went dull.

My point is that we should focus on real world use, ease of sharpening and balanced steels. You get better results/benefits with lower end steels in real world use. They are uncool but work. They have worked for decades and longer.

I do enjoy high end steels also, but there are too few options for high end knives using lower end steels.

BR Oliver

I get what you're saying about the things we use our knives for, which is not always a clean rope out of a box. To your point on the test being theoretical, that's just not the case. If you want to compare anything in a test you need a level playing field, in this case the same rope. For all that matters you can use a dirty rope to do that same test.

And yes, even a 15v Shaman can get dull, but the question is how would other steels compare on that same dirty cardboard or rope to the Shaman.

Ease of sharpening depends on your sharpening system, skills and if you need to be able to sharpen in the field or not.

[RugerNurse]

I read a comment on YouTube that said “well the Knife has 20CV steel so of course it cuts well.” That’s a result of YouTubers and online retailers pushing the concept of “premium steel.” My SAK cuts really well too.

[_centurio_]

You could also use dirty rope and will notice that the high numbers of cuts through clean rope will not be achieved anymore and the number of cuts made by lower end steels will be nearer to the high end steels.

That I meant when I said that cutting clean rope is not real world use/testing.

Grindability is determined by the steel/heattreat itself. Skill (which I have for sure) helps to be effective, equipment can help with efficiency.

Yes, a higher end steel, f.e. with high V carbide content, can be sharpened relatively easily with diamonds. The other part is stropping/cleaning the apex or high grit sharpening. There you need cBN/diamond or equ. Grain type.

Is it worth the higher costs of high end steel, high end sharpening equipment/time needed in ratio to real world performance/benefit of using super steels/high carbide steels? No (IMO).

No offense to anyone, that is my opinion.

Would I chose (if it was an option) to get a PM2/Shaman/Manix/Military2 with N690 over S30V/S90V/M390? Yes. Because for me in real world using I would benefit from that.

BR Oliver

[Jim Malone]

I have no use in steel that forces me to send my knife back for factory resharpening, or forces me to buy an expensive sharpening system and regrind the angle to increase the performance say 100%.
I want something i can sharpen on my sharpmaker. It's like buying an expensive motorcycle that goes 200 mph instead of 180 mph. Where are you driving with it. The supersteels are creating a need that most ELU don't need. Or create problems like chipping because these steels are made for industrial use with tight tolerances and bubba just chipped his edge on a stick.

[Steeltoez83]

It was a failed experiment but I did try to create a testing media of dirty rope. I wanted the rope to absorb dirt, sand, and a small pinch of gravel in a water slurry mixture. I haven't found the right rope to use tho. I still wanna get back to it, but I need to create testing standards so others can repeat the same test. Last testing I actually did was with utility razor blades I bought from Menards.

[tangent]

I have no use in steel that forces me to send my knife back for factory resharpening, or forces me to buy an expensive sharpening system and regrind the angle to increase the performance say 100%.
I want something i can sharpen on my sharpmaker. It's like buying an expensive motorcycle that goes 200 mph instead of 180 mph. Where are you driving with it. The supersteels are creating a need that most ELU don't need. Or create problems like chipping because these steels are made for industrial use with tight tolerances and bubba just chipped his edge on a stick.

I agree and will point out that this is what is so awesome about MagnaCut. (Just a random comment.)

[brj]

I (still) don't get the oversized choil Spyderco is using ad nauseam, I don't do much stabbing with my pocket knife so I have no fear my finger might slip towards the cutting edge. I mean, I love it on my T-Mag but not much on anything else.

I don't get the over-usage of ultem as a handle material, I do enjoy having semi-transparent handles as much as the next guy (as they provide an interesting view of the mechanics inside the knife), but I'd rather have clear tops or something like jade or the nice shade of blue Spyderco is using on the LW Manix, anything but ultem. Ultem is just... meh.

I don't get the bashing of otf's or the idea they are just a novelty item. My experience has been entirely different (I've been edc'ing and using almost exclusively otf's since early 2020), they just need some sort of regular maintenance, same as any other pocket knife (yes, the routines and frequency might differ, I give you that).

I also agree with every other poster that has expressed their disenchantment with the current 'inflation' of supersteels, cutting with knives with 'just' 12C27 or 440C detracts nothing from my joy of using them.

[vivi]

fwiw I wasn't trying to bash otf's, I just don't get the appeal personally because for me they present more cons than pros. I'd rather pocket a Pacific Salt, but I'm not gonna look down on someone for preferring an otf to that.

[Subverto]

I had no idea sharpening was such an issue for people. I am a novice sharpener at best, and had no trouble getting my Maxamet Para 3 back to hair shaving sharp on CBN stones. It actually sharpened up surprisingly fast and I had no issue getting the factory unsharpened heel sharpened to match the rest of the edge either.

[ykspydiefan]

I understand getting out of a knife store with a new knife and immediately wanting to open and cut with it. I kinda understand wanting to post pics of the new knife ASAP.

What I do not understand is the knife photo, in the truck, with the knife on one leg and too much extra in the shot. I hope I do not need to paint a more accurate picture of what I do not want to see in knife pictures.

But, I do like good knife pics.

[RustyIron]

What I do not understand is the knife photo, in the truck, with the knife on one leg and too much extra in the shot.

That's funny. I've had similar thoughts, but didn't say anything for fear of being too controversial. But that's never stopped me before... and since you brought it up...

These newfangled reviewers, influencers, Tick-Tackers, and FacePagers have embraced shooting videos inside their cars. The trend isn't unique to knife people. Why do they do that? Are they hobos? Do they live in their cars? Won't their moms let them shoot a video at the kitchen table?

My advice for anyone wanting to be the next Nick Shabazz, pay attention to the environment and your background. No one wants to see the McDonalds wrappers in your passenger seat or the dirty dishes stacked up in the kitchen. We don't want to see piles of dirty laundry in your bedroom. Channel your inner Scorsesee: everything in the shot needs to be intentional, it needs to be there for a reason, or it doesn't need to be there at all.

The exception would be what @YKspydiefan talked about... you know... the extra leg or "other" stuff in the shot. There's probably a market for that sort of thing. If that's the demographic you're after, than good on ya. More power to you.

[James Y]

Personally, I rarely post knife pics. I rarely take photos at all, and only ever took one selfie in my life, back in 1988, with the old type of camera.

When and if I do take knife pics, I focus as much as possible on the knife itself, with as little extraneous background as possible. I've never taken any pics in my car, on my leg, or with junk in the background, but admittedly, my pics are plain and BORING.

Not everyone is a photographic "artist." I can draw people, animals, and cartoons quite well, but I'm not an artist with a camera. Not everybody is. To some degree, as with any other talent, someone can get better with practice. But for the most part, you either have "it" or you don't. And I won't fault someone for that.

Jim

[RustyIron]

Personally, I rarely post knife pics. I rarely take photos at all, and only ever took one selfie in my life, back in 1988

You're on to something, Jim. We need to start a new thread, "Old Guys Taking Selfies with Knives." The only rules would be that posts would only be allowed from people with gray hair, thinning hair, or wrinkles. Photos could be shot from inside the car, but only if there is a blue placard hanging from the rear view mirror.

[Naperville]

...
You may not see much difference in real world use between let's say BD1N and M390/CPM 10V. But ease of sharpening/using appropriate sharpening media for lower end steels is much better/easier, and cheaper.

Cliff Stamp (may he rest in peace) made a video about that topic (cutting dirty rope with low vs. High end steel) years ago. You may only see significant performance difference when having clean, very controlled (laboratory environment) cutting.

I love Spyderco for offering so much new High End steel options, and a lot of people enjoy trying new steels all the time. That is great. But I would like to see popular models (f.e. PM2, Manix, Shaman,...) with G10 handles but steels like BD1N, N690, 440C, 154CM,...like 10 to 15 years ago.
...

Yes you may not see much difference in some steels but there will be a significant difference between some steels and you do not need a controlled experiment to see them.

I want the best edge retention that I can get as long as the toughness is decent. My use is self defense.

I'm thinking of cutting through a few layers of clothing, maybe a jean jacket and 3 other layers. I do not want the blade to snap. If the blade hits a zipper or a steel closure on the jacket I do not want the blade to lose a chunk of steel.

[James Y]

Personally, I rarely post knife pics. I rarely take photos at all, and only ever took one selfie in my life, back in 1988

You're on to something, Jim. We need to start a new thread, "Old Guys Taking Selfies with Knives." The only rules would be that posts would only be allowed from people with gray hair, thinning hair, or wrinkles. Photos could be shot from inside the car, but only if there is a blue placard hanging from the rear view mirror.

That would disqualify me, then, because although I'm 60, my hair isn't thinning (although I do keep it very short), I have no wrinkles, and my only hair that is graying enough to really notice is my beard.



Jim

[Paul Ardbeg]

Flippin **** and then there is the price of $490 🫣 and it's called the Stabnana 🥲