Anyone want to see Vanax in the salt series?

[alphaneuron9]

Man, this thread has gotten good. Thanks to everyone participating. Great advice on how to sharpen Vanax!

JoviAl, I happen to do dual grit sharpening as well on my MC. 200/3000 is what I use, just cause that´s what I had available at the moment. I found it does increase edge retention. Curious, what do you do? It´s toothy and stays paper cutting sharp much longer. (not exactly scientific)

Ignore my previous question on the other post

I dual grit mine at 320/1500 usually, then finish on a mother’s mag or 0.25 diamond strop. That gets me about 1000-1500 pruning cuts on tropical plants (banana, papaya, torch ginger, Moringa, cacao, mulberry and a lot of soursop wood mainly) before I switch to another knife. For reference with a mirror edge and hair splitting sharpness I get about 600-800 cuts from the same knife with the same edge angles. Gabe from TheHomeSlice is on here sometimes and does great experiments with dual grit edges and their optimisation. Worth chatting to him if you can or checking him out on YouTube if you haven’t already

Yeah, man! Of course I ran it by Gabe on his youTube channel! Its so cool to find people that know all about the subject matter in one forum. I know that´s the point, but still soaking it in. Before I discovered this forum, it was bladeHQ knife steel guide, followed by knifesteelnerds and youTube. Great learning resources. Now I want to do an apprenticeship with someone!! LOL

[JoviAl]

Man, this thread has gotten good. Thanks to everyone participating. Great advice on how to sharpen Vanax!

JoviAl, I happen to do dual grit sharpening as well on my MC. 200/3000 is what I use, just cause that´s what I had available at the moment. I found it does increase edge retention. Curious, what do you do? It´s toothy and stays paper cutting sharp much longer. (not exactly scientific)

Ignore my previous question on the other post

I dual grit mine at 320/1500 usually, then finish on a mother’s mag or 0.25 diamond strop. That gets me about 1000-1500 pruning cuts on tropical plants (banana, papaya, torch ginger, Moringa, cacao, mulberry and a lot of soursop wood mainly) before I switch to another knife. For reference with a mirror edge and hair splitting sharpness I get about 600-800 cuts from the same knife with the same edge angles. Gabe from TheHomeSlice is on here sometimes and does great experiments with dual grit edges and their optimisation. Worth chatting to him if you can or checking him out on YouTube if you haven’t already

Yeah, man! Of course I ran it by Gabe on his youTube channel! Its so cool to find people that know all about the subject matter in one forum. I know that´s the point, but still soaking it in. Before I discovered this forum, it was bladeHQ knife steel guide, followed by knifesteelnerds and youTube. Great learning resources. Now I want to do an apprenticeship with someone!! LOL

sorry for telling you how to suck eggs!

Yeah, there’s a lot of experience on this forum. I’ve learned an enormous amount since I joined.

[Xplorer]

Beautiful. Do you still make the fillet knives with Lance ¨surfingringo¨?

Thank you.

i made a few of Lance's large fillet knives just as Vanax SC first came out. I haven't made any of those in some years now. I still have at least 2 blanks of that design cut out in Vanax and waiting in case Lance should need a replacement one day.

For those that don't know what you're talking about, this is one of the Lance Clinton designed large fillet knives that I built for Lance (surfingringo).

[alphaneuron9]

Absolutely gorgeous. I don´t understand why there aren´t production fillet knives in rust proof steels. Vanax, understandably, would probably be pricey, but I´d still buy one.

But now that we´re chatting... I was watching Larrin in a Buck knives promotion where he is being interviewed by Zack (formerly of BladeHQ) where he was asked about the favorites of each class of knife steel. Larrin talks about the fine grain structure of Sandvik 14C28N as not just a tough steel but because of the fine grain structure excellent for razors in that it gets really sharp.

So that gets to my question, does vanax have that kind of grain structure, does vanax get as sharp as 14C28N? That kind of sharpness is ideal for filleting fish, removing the skin, etc.

In effect, I am researching for the ideal fish fillet knife steel.

[alphaneuron9]

Man, this thread has gotten good. Thanks to everyone participating. Great advice on how to sharpen Vanax!

JoviAl, I happen to do dual grit sharpening as well on my MC. 200/3000 is what I use, just cause that´s what I had available at the moment. I found it does increase edge retention. Curious, what do you do? It´s toothy and stays paper cutting sharp much longer. (not exactly scientific)

Ignore my previous question on the other post

I dual grit mine at 320/1500 usually, then finish on a mother’s mag or 0.25 diamond strop. That gets me about 1000-1500 pruning cuts on tropical plants (banana, papaya, torch ginger, Moringa, cacao, mulberry and a lot of soursop wood mainly) before I switch to another knife. For reference with a mirror edge and hair splitting sharpness I get about 600-800 cuts from the same knife with the same edge angles. Gabe from TheHomeSlice is on here sometimes and does great experiments with dual grit edges and their optimisation. Worth chatting to him if you can or checking him out on YouTube if you haven’t already

Yeah, man! Of course I ran it by Gabe on his youTube channel! Its so cool to find people that know all about the subject matter in one forum. I know that´s the point, but still soaking it in. Before I discovered this forum, it was bladeHQ knife steel guide, followed by knifesteelnerds and youTube. Great learning resources. Now I want to do an apprenticeship with someone!! LOL

sorry for telling you how to suck eggs!

Yeah, there’s a lot of experience on this forum. I’ve learned an enormous amount since I joined.

Hey Al, I didn´t mean it that way... I saw Gabe on youtube, tried the dual grit with what I had available, and wanted to compare with how you were doing it. Obviously there´s a million ways to skin a cat and hearing or learning about how others are doing it equates to more knowledge, of which I am grateful that you shared. I was trying to express eager familiarity with what you were referring to in Gabe´s youtube channel... sorry if it didnt come across that way.

[Xplorer]

Absolutely gorgeous. I don´t understand why there aren´t production fillet knives in rust proof steels. Vanax, understandably, would probably be pricey, but I´d still buy one.

But now that we´re chatting... I was watching Larrin in a Buck knives promotion where he is being interviewed by Zack (formerly of BladeHQ) where he was asked about the favorites of each class of knife steel. Larrin talks about the fine grain structure of Sandvik 14C28N as not just a tough steel but because of the fine grain structure excellent for razors in that it gets really sharp.

So that gets to my question, does vanax have that kind of grain structure, does vanax get as sharp as 14C28N? That kind of sharpness is ideal for filleting fish, removing the skin, etc.

In effect, I am researching for the ideal fish fillet knife steel.

Vanax has a fine nitride distribution, but the matrix structure is different from 14c28N.

When it comes to finding the steel you think is best for fillet knives there is a lot to consider. In the end I believe you will establish a strong opinion but never actually establish a clear-cut "best". My best suggestion is to check into what reputable fillet knife makers have to say about the subject. Phil Wilson (as just one excellent example)has done a lot of very in-depth work in this regard and he has his favorites based on his testing. Phil likes N690 (plus others) and points out that ductility is an important consideration in fillet knife performance. http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/bladesteel.html

Vanax is effectively corrosion proof with good toughness and good wear resistance.
14c28N is corrosion resistant with good toughness and low wear resistance.

I would say neither of them is a perfect fillet knife steel. If I personally was looking to choose which steel is "best" for a fillet knife, I would consider sharpening characteristics, ductility and wear resistance all to be more important than corrosion resistance. I should add, I have not tried to make such a decision. I have made fillet knives in Vanax, CPM20CV, AEB-L and S35VN. All of them have been great performing knives. Out of those 4, you might be surprised to hear I think boring S35VN is the best all-around choice for a fillet knife.

Best,
CK

[alphaneuron9]

Awesome to read what you have to say. S35VN, you say... hmmm (no experience). I wish I could try all four.
Thanks, man!

[Xplorer]

...Your new model is looking good. I see similarities with mine. Please post some pics when she's complete.

Rob
[/font]

Here she is.. I didn't take the time to take good pictures. By the time I finished it, I was hungry and just wanted to make dinner with it already . The handle is copper infused shredded CF, G10, Ti, copper and Desert Ironwood.



This knife was given the exact same heat treatment protocol as your knife, Rob. Sharpening went very well. I set the bevel on a 400 grit CBN wet stone from BBB, and with a few light stroked at the end I was happy to see it started leaving "burr hairs" on the stone. I moved to an 800 grit ceramic wet stone, formed a burr, and sharpened progressively lighter until I had "burr hairs" on that stone as well. I then finished it on a leather strop treated with 1000 grit diamond emulsion. I'm very happy with the sharpening response and the edge characteristics so far.

First test... prepared dinner for my dog (diced chicken, fine diced carrots, ultra-fine diced ginger).


Test 2, sliced a pork lion that will be the "protein topping" for my baked potato. This is about the maximum size cut for this knife and it performed well. I liked the way it cut meats and soft vegetables very much. For long slices I would still prefer a full flat grind. Despite the exceptional thinness it did not cut root vegetables as effortlessly as a similarly thin full flat grind.

[vivi]

I'm more interested in larger salts than I am new salt steels. I'm perfectly happy with the performance of the current salt steels. If Vanax can be used without much of a price increase I'd try it out, but I'd rather see an XL Pacific or a new XL salt first.

[cabfrank]

Same.

And wow, that's a beautiful kitchen knife.

[alphaneuron9]

A grumpy Meeeeeh. Its cause you havent tried vanax. the best corrosion proof experience. hahaha

[RustyIron]

I'm very happy with the sharpening response and the edge characteristics so far.

First test... prepared dinner for my dog

Great looking knife, Chad. She looks just like mine, but with subtle stylistic differences. Clearly, they're siblings. It's nice that your wife lets you use her new knife for making dog food. Thanks for showing the pictures.

[Xplorer]

Great looking knife, Chad. She looks just like mine, but with subtle stylistic differences. Clearly, they're siblings. It's nice that your wife lets you use her new knife for making dog food. Thanks for showing the pictures.

Thank you Rob! They are definitely siblings. The two were cut from the same piece of steel, brought to life with the same H/T protocol, and have handles shaped in the same way.

When it comes to feeding the dog (most important member of the family), there's no tools or ingredients too good for our furry boy.

[Surfingringo]

Wow Chad, that kitchen knife is awesome!! What’s the handle material? Is that some of Gene’s wood?

[Xplorer]

Wow Chad, that kitchen knife is awesome!! What’s the handle material? Is that some of Gene’s wood?

Thank you Lance!

No, that's some Desert Ironwood I stocked up on recently. I absolutely love using desert ironwood. After building Rob's knife handle with it, I immediately bought 10 more blocks.


When it's sanded up to around 2000 grit, the grain is so fine and the wood is so hard and oily that it acts much more like a water-proof synthetic material than other woods I've worked with, including some stabilized woods. The heart wood is nearly non-biodegradable. It resists molds and fungus, it's poisonous to termites, and degrades so slowly that with minimal care it could last 800+ years.
Plus it's pretty . Other than Ringed Gidgee, I can't think of another wood species I'd prefer for all types of indoor knives, and a few outdoor knives as well.

[alphaneuron9]

Wow Chad, that kitchen knife is awesome!! What’s the handle material? Is that some of Gene’s wood?

Thank you Lance!

No, that's some Desert Ironwood I stocked up on recently. I absolutely love using desert ironwood. After building Rob's knife handle with it, I immediately bought 10 more blocks.




Hey Chad,
I agree with you, that desert iron wood is beautiful. Im considering getting some for my shaman and/or my mule... suggest anyone?

[Xplorer]

Hey Chad,
I agree with you, that desert iron wood is beautiful. I'm considering getting some for my shaman and/or my mule... suggest anyone?

Greenberg Woods is where I've been getting mine lately. It's not necessarily a suggestion, just a matter of fact. Always be aware that with any wood you purchase (especially on-line) you take a chance to receiving pieces with unwanted cracks or splits. https://greenbergwoods.com/desert-ironwood-burl/ .

[Ramonade]

Wow Chad, that kitchen knife is awesome!! What’s the handle material? Is that some of Gene’s wood?

Thank you Lance!

No, that's some Desert Ironwood I stocked up on recently. I absolutely love using desert ironwood. After building Rob's knife handle with it, I immediately bought 10 more blocks.


When it's sanded up to around 2000 grit, the grain is so fine and the wood is so hard and oily that it acts much more like a water-proof synthetic material than other woods I've worked with, including some stabilized woods. The heart wood is nearly non-biodegradable. It resists molds and fungus, it's poisonous to termites, and degrades so slowly that with minimal care it could last 800+ years.
Plus it's pretty . Other than Ringed Gidgee, I can't think of another wood species I'd prefer for all types of indoor knives, and a few outdoor knives as well.

Ziricote, with its particular grain, seems to act a bit like you described for the desert ironwood. Thats funny, you just mentionned the only 2 natural wood essences I want to work with the most !
Otherwise, Im too much in love with stabilized burl nowadays . I'm starting to have fun with some natural ones though

[Xplorer]

Ziricote, with its particular grain, seems to act a bit like you described for the desert ironwood. Thats funny, you just mentionned the only 2 natural wood essences I want to work with the most !
Otherwise, Im too much in love with stabilized burl nowadays . I'm starting to have fun with some natural ones though

Ziricote is oily and pretty too. The biggest difference is hardness. Desert ironwood and Ringed Gidgee are 2 of the hardest woods in the world. On the Janka hardness scale Desert Ironwood is 3260, Gidgee is an amazing 4270 and Ziricote is 1970.

I started out working with stabilized woods primarily. They are indeed beautiful and they are stable enough for knife handles. However, after living with some of those stabilized knives for a few years I found that even when stabilized each wood species acted differently, and softer woods especially (like maple, cherry, and even hickory) still absorb moisture into the grain of the wood and can warp eventually. This is what has lead me to using woods that are extremely hard, oily and naturally stable (even though they're expensive). Desert Ironwood looks and feels a lot like working with a stabilized wood, but it's a harder material than woods one would stabilize. Gidgee is even harder and more stable. Now that I've worked with those 2 wood species a bit, I absolutely love them and plan to use one or the other any time I use wood on a knife. I highly recommend them to anyone building handles or knives.

[alphaneuron9]

I think it's just wrong that Spyderco, the leader in steels for knives, is not producing a vanax salt series. I would like to design a knife and have them evaluate it for production. If a guy from California can take to market a vanax folding knife, Spyderco can do it better and cheaper, for sure.