SALT Shaman, Thoughts?

[salimoneus]

No thanks. The Shaman is one of the beefier heavier use folders that Spyderco makes, so imo it needs a really tough blade with exceptional edge holding. None of the salt blade steels really qualify, including Magnacut. Cruwear and similar performing steels are ideal for this format folder imo.

[dlum1]

No thanks. The Shaman is one of the beefier heavier use folders that Spyderco makes, so imo it needs a really tough blade with exceptional edge holding. None of the salt blade steels really qualify, including Magnacut. Cruwear and similar performing steels are ideal for this format folder imo.

It's interesting that you rule out Magnacut but qualify Cruwear. From my own experience testing z-wear, pd1, and magnacut mules, I found them all very similar -- so much so that I would not be able to distinguish them in use. This is likely because the carbide volume is so similar between magnacut and cruwear in addition to being run at similar hardness (at least in the mules). Curious to hear if you've done a side-by-side comparison of the two and what you found.

I agree with you on some general points though - high toughness. However, I would like to see higher than 61 HRC for better edge stability which rules out both H2 and LC200N. That being said, I've been really happy with serrated LC200N performance. We used a serrated pacific salt to quarter a 12 inch lady fish on the beach for bait while surf fishing (basically sawing straight though bone) and there was no rolling at the edge.

[Manixguy@1994]

I like the Shaman , only have one I switched to Micarta . If a Salt version would be considered it would have to go on a diet to get my interest . Great knife .Dan

[salimoneus]

It's interesting that you rule out Magnacut but qualify Cruwear. From my own experience testing z-wear, pd1, and magnacut mules, I found them all very similar -- so much so that I would not be able to distinguish them in use. This is likely because the carbide volume is so similar between magnacut and cruwear in addition to being run at similar hardness (at least in the mules). Curious to hear if you've done a side-by-side comparison of the two and what you found.

I agree with you on some general points though - high toughness. However, I would like to see higher than 61 HRC for better edge stability which rules out both H2 and LC200N. That being said, I've been really happy with serrated LC200N performance. We used a serrated pacific salt to quarter a 12 inch lady fish on the beach for bait while surf fishing (basically sawing straight though bone) and there was no rolling at the edge.

I think Cruwear, 4V, K390, etc, have significantly better edge retention than Magnacut, as well as more toughness. Those are what I value most in a harder use folder. The only time I would prefer Magnacut in any application would be it's stainless properties, in which case it performs admirably compared to anything else with the same level of corrosion resistance. Magnacut certainly has it's niche, but it's not the holy grail that many seem to make it out to be.

Every knife steel is a trade-off in the various attributes, and Magnacut is surely no different. I think it simply boils down to how many other attributes you are willing to give up for the high corrosion resistance.

[Steeltoez83]

In my own testing samples I've found magnacut holds an edge a little longer than 4v and cruwear. It's toughness or resistance to impacts affecting overall edge retention at the apex ranks higher than 4V. I've seen it on 2 samples so far. Magnacut atleast imo is very well balanced from what I've seen and tested. I haven't tested anything from spyderco with it just yet. However I will assume it will behave similarly to what I've seen in controlled testing and real world use not speculation.

[Manifestgtr]

I'd buy a carribean before I'd buy a salty shaman.

Bingo…this is the answer, imo.

I’m a huge Shaman advocate. It’s the most comfortable Spyderco to me…on top of that, it’s very neutral and relatively non-intimidating for its capability…all things I look for in a knife.

But I’d you’re a Shaman guy, the Caribbean is the answer in my book. Yes, it doesn’t have a choil and no, it’s doesn’t have that “folding fixed blade” feel with the contouring of the Shaman. But I usually don’t want that on a boat, etc. I want a high visibility, grippy folder with serviceable corrosion resistance…and I think most outdoorsmen feel the same way. The Shaman almost can’t be beat for camping and as a non-dressing hunting folder. But on the water, the Caribbean and Native salt are where it’s at.

Beyond that, there are salty Endura/Delica/etc. style folders too and even the Atlantic salt…not to mention the waterway and all the non-folding options. I ADORE the Shaman and I have personal wishlists for it that include k390, various micartas and magnacut (which would get you halfway there). But a pure salt Shaman?

[Catchadroppimgknife]

I would not mind a green lc200n Shaman in my collection.
Do not care for yellow but good thing the Shaman haves liners so kicking them off and putting some new scales isn’t that difficult.

Caribbean style Shaman scales would do the trick. The Caribbean/Shaman, Carman?

Spyderco marketing should call this concept a …….. Cayman!!!!

[dlum1]

It's interesting that you rule out Magnacut but qualify Cruwear. From my own experience testing z-wear, pd1, and magnacut mules, I found them all very similar -- so much so that I would not be able to distinguish them in use. This is likely because the carbide volume is so similar between magnacut and cruwear in addition to being run at similar hardness (at least in the mules). Curious to hear if you've done a side-by-side comparison of the two and what you found.

I agree with you on some general points though - high toughness. However, I would like to see higher than 61 HRC for better edge stability which rules out both H2 and LC200N. That being said, I've been really happy with serrated LC200N performance. We used a serrated pacific salt to quarter a 12 inch lady fish on the beach for bait while surf fishing (basically sawing straight though bone) and there was no rolling at the edge.

I think Cruwear, 4V, K390, etc, have significantly better edge retention than Magnacut, as well as more toughness. Those are what I value most in a harder use folder. The only time I would prefer Magnacut in any application would be it's stainless properties, in which case it performs admirably compared to anything else with the same level of corrosion resistance. Magnacut certainly has it's niche, but it's not the holy grail that many seem to make it out to be.

Every knife steel is a trade-off in the various attributes, and Magnacut is surely no different. I think it simply boils down to how many other attributes you are willing to give up for the high corrosion resistance.

But this is the point I am trying to get across. Based on my testing/borderline-abuse with the magnacut mule-teams, Magnacut is basically a stainless Cruwear. Magnacut hasn't stropped back as nicely as Cruwear, but edge retention and toughness is essentially the same between my two mules. I haven't found either Cruwear/PD1 or Magnacut to have "great" edge retention -- certainly not on par with k390. It's good, but not great.

I certainly wouldn't mind a Shaman in either Magnacut or Cruwear, but I think the Caribbean is a better design for use in and around water. Even if the Caribbean had smooth scales, the handle guards keeps it locked in -- not so much with the Shaman.

[salimoneus]

But this is the point I am trying to get across. Based on my testing/borderline-abuse with the magnacut mule-teams, Magnacut is basically a stainless Cruwear. Magnacut hasn't stropped back as nicely as Cruwear, but edge retention and toughness is essentially the same between my two mules. I haven't found either Cruwear/PD1 or Magnacut to have "great" edge retention -- certainly not on par with k390. It's good, but not great.

I certainly wouldn't mind a Shaman in either Magnacut or Cruwear, but I think the Caribbean is a better design for use in and around water. Even if the Caribbean had smooth scales, the handle guards keeps it locked in -- not so much with the Shaman.

That has not been my experience, Cruwear has performed better and holds an edge noticeably longer than Magnacut, all variables being as equal as possible. But I typically cut a fair amount of materials with metals like staples and wiring harnesses.

Agreed that the Caribbean is a much better format for a salt model. The Shaman would be one of my last choices.

[salimoneus]

.

[dlum1]

But this is the point I am trying to get across. Based on my testing/borderline-abuse with the magnacut mule-teams, Magnacut is basically a stainless Cruwear. Magnacut hasn't stropped back as nicely as Cruwear, but edge retention and toughness is essentially the same between my two mules. I haven't found either Cruwear/PD1 or Magnacut to have "great" edge retention -- certainly not on par with k390. It's good, but not great.

I certainly wouldn't mind a Shaman in either Magnacut or Cruwear, but I think the Caribbean is a better design for use in and around water. Even if the Caribbean had smooth scales, the handle guards keeps it locked in -- not so much with the Shaman.

That has not been my experience, Cruwear has performed better and holds an edge noticeably longer than Magnacut, all variables being as equal as possible. But I typically cut a fair amount of materials with metals like staples and wiring harnesses.

Agreed that the Caribbean is a much better format for a salt model. The Shaman would be one of my last choices.

Well, that makes more sense then. A hyped steel and subpar experience with any material likely doesn't warrant a repeat. After all, this is how S30V got its chippy reputation.

[Cl1ff]

I somewhat doubt that the difference in performance Salimoneus is seeing is inherent to all MagnaCut.
I don’t know what variables are actually known in their examples, but the steels (MagnaCut/Cruwear/4V) should have very similar wear resistance and toughness at the same hardness and geometry.
That is literally what the steel was designed to do and is also supported by testing data and a lot of the anecdotal reports.

However, no Spyderco model has been released in MagnaCut that I’ve been interested in, so I have not personally experienced the steel. Nor have I experienced Spyderco Cruwear or 4V.
The Province in 4V was discontinued and I never got a chance at one. It’s actually one of the top knives I’d like to see in MagnaCut too.
If that happened, I would track down a 4V to compare them.

Spy27 should have similar wear resistance to MagnaCut or Cruwear and I was impressed by its performance in my Mule and Native 5. I found it to be pretty resistant to deformation overall.

MagnaCut is most attractive to me, though, because of the high strength and edge stability it should offer with very high corrosion resistance. It also reported to be nice to sharpen. This is what I want in Salt knives, especially serrated edges.

Anyway, about a Salt Shaman, I would potentially be interested in a Salt version of the upcoming choilless Shaman.

[weeping minora]

LC200N or Magna Cut Shaman, what are your thoughts? I would love one, that’s for sure. I also have been banging the SALT Millie drum for a bit. Anyone want to join the drum circle?

That's the rhythm.